Fred, if this isn't advanced tech, please feel free to move it. I didn't figure it would get an adequate response in LT1 tech.

Obviously I don't have my engine yet, but I do have a few questions about the solid roller valvetrain, especially considering that it's been pretty much sitting for over a year now, and I don't know if anyone's bothered to turn it over at any sort of regular interval to relieve the pressure on the valve springs, or whether that's even necessary.

I have Comp Cams Pacaloy springs. I'd have to look up the part number, but I believe that they're 943s, which specs at 240 pounds on the seat and 598 open. Those are close enough for my questions, at any rate.

1. With these type of pressures, if the engine has been sitting for an extended period of time, should I be concerned about the inequal compression of the various springs? Should the engine have been turned over periodically to relieve pressure on springs that have been partially or fully compressed during that time? I'm assuming the answer is yes, or is it only due to heat cycling that springs tend to lose their tension?

2. What if this hasn't taken place? I asked if there was any possibility that the springs needed to be replaced after being under tension for so long, presumably without any cycling of the valvetrain, and was told that the springs are still "in spec". Short of taking them off and checking them on a spring pressure testure, can anyone honestly say that they haven't been affected during this time, or am I just worrying too much?

3. The reason for concern is that the engine will soon (with any luck) be back in the dyno cell again prior to being shipped. Would a year (or so) sitting cause the springs to lose enough pressure that it would be dangerous to dyno without replacing them? I ask because I've got $1,500 worth of Ti valves (among other things) at risk...

Enough about the engine, now for some general questions...

4. I've heard the "horror" stories about having to check lash every 2k-5k miles. Is this really a concern with modern springs and shaft rockers? What's a reasonable interval? I don't want to be pulling my valve covers off every 5k miles if I don't have to, although I would assume that checking them more regularly at the beginning of their life cycle would be appropriate, and more infrequently if the lash hasn't changed. Anyone know how good the Crower shaft rockers are at retaining their settings?

5. Speaking of lifecycle, what's the reasonable expectancy for springs like this? 15k miles? 20k miles? That could easily be 3 or 4 years of driving in a low mileage car, so should they be replaced on a yearly or bi-yearly basis or another regular schedule rather than based on mileage? It's likely that they'll "sit" through the winters with periodic starting of the car to keep everything happy. I'm just curious what the prudent replacement interval should look like.

6. Besides a cylinder pressurizing fitting to hold the valves in place with compressed air, how do you remove springs with these pressures with the engine in the car and shaft rockers? Without a rocker stud to attach to, what do you do? I haven't come across any tool yet that will allow compressing springs with shaft rockers, let alone ones with these pressures. I've removed stock LT1 springs and they've even got some good power behind them. I expect that removing solid roller springs with ~240 pounds on the seat could be extremely dangerous without the proper tool. Is there a specific tool that will make this a safe procedure with the engine in the car? I will not be able to pull the heads with the engine in the car, because the head studs won't allow the clearance, BTW.

7. I can't think of a seventh set of questions. I'm just concerned about the state of the current springs and if anyone thinks there's a risk involved with a set of high pressure springs that may have been sitting for a year, and how I'm going to replace them myself once the engine in is in the car.

Thanks in advance for any help or advice!

 

Sorry to say, its probably time for new springs dude. I'd buy a new set, and replace the ones that are bad, and keep the rest as spares.

You were told the springs are fine by the builder (Mark or B&B I assume?). This would surprise me, but if they check ot fine then they I suppose they're fine,but I wouldn't trust them unless they were tested.

Theres your reason to have the springs checked first.

Never personally ran a Solid Roller for extended mileage on the street. My personal car has had 9k miles in the last 4 years LOL.

May sound bad, but I think 15-20k miles is a pipe dream. Really the only way to tell is by checking them, obviously cam profile plays a LARGE role in this. During winters I would simply back off all the rockers to preserve the springs.

LSM Engineering makes a tool to compress the springs while on the car w/ Shaft Rockers (Bolts to the pedestal that the shafts mount to). Given your space confines, it may prove *interesting* as the tool isn't exactly compact (or cheap for that matter).

Checking the springs while on the heads shouldn't be an issue. As far as swapping them in the car, well, dunno what to tell ya there. I know I've made my car as easy to work on as possible, lash adjustments, Springs swaps, etc etc etc.

Good luck man!

 

Ditto what kurtis said. they make compressors that mount to the shaft rocker mounts.

replace the valve springs, unless the motor was stored with the rockers loose.

for a little while, lash is gonna go out a lot. I would check it after 50 miles, then again at 300 then again at 800. after that, every oil change is MORE than enough.


Springs, check the pressures at 5k, then prolly every 2k after that. imo, thats $300 in the sheme of things for new springs ever 8-10k?

 

Thanks Kurtis, Jordon.

Jordon, did you get my e-mail I sent you a couple weeks ago detailing my "issues"?

I was told that the springs were fine and there was nothing to worry about, but the rapidity of the answer and the fact that the "people" involved with the project just seem to want to be done with it leads me to believe that it was just a "shut up Jim" response and that they weren't checked at all.

I sort of got the same feeling when I asked about putting a milder cam in for a bit better drivability while the front of the engine was unbuttoned and we were waiting on the timing cover. "Just put it in the car and drive it" is what I was told.

Does anyone think it's a bad idea to just have the engine packed up as-is and shipped up and take the problem out of hands that probably aren't concerned enough any longer to give me a solid level of confidence that I'm not going to end up with a 5-gallon bucket of broken parts?

If I were more confident that the eDist/LS1 coil pack solution was going to work (the harness from NE Dyno had to be redone, and the eDist wasn't receiving a good signal last I heard), I think the engine would already be on its way and screw the final tuning for now.

 

jim- i sent oyu a VERY long winded response.. i guess you didn't get it? ill send it again..

 

Nope. I've got some pretty aggressive filtering going on, but for some reason, Outlook has dropped some legitimate e-mails to the delete box, and I don't always remember to look through what got stowed there before exiting. I wondered why I hadn't heard from you.

Latest update is that the engine will be crated up in the next few days and shipped up to me. I'll deal with final tuning, or changing cams, or whatever ends up happening with it.

 

FWIW I think this is a good decision. You may not have the experience Mark does but at least you're willing to put forth the time and effort to get it finished.

 

while were on the topic and I have "Jordan and the solid roller team's" attention-

Should I have gone solid roller....

my only problem is i'm using LT1 castings....

I can turn around and do it now-
i just placed my order for a COMPLETE top end (lifters to valves to heads, retainers, springs, pushrods ect)

 

if you want max power NA, hell yes solid roller

 

Solid roller is the only way to go fast NA.....no doubt about it. Even with stock ported LT1 castings, as long as they flow well. Just dont buy the Crane 11522 lifters....or any Crane lifter IMO.

Jim, setting lash will not be that much of an issue for you after the break in milege (~1500 miles for things to settle). With shaftmounts I would check them every 3k or so, but people have gone 8-10k miles with them and the lash has been dead on. Pretty impressive.

Jason

 

this means the added cost of upgrading lifters, pushrods and .... rockers?

and aa fluid dampener i'm sure....

 

I think I'm going to keep the engine, after discussion with Jordon, and do what my gut feeling has been telling me to do for months now and go with a milder solid roller in the 240ish range.

Anyone want to be my good buddy and run my stuff through Desktop Dyno 2000 and give me some recommendations? I can provide most of the specs, and those I can't, I can probably get from Mark. Heck, I might even be able to get the configuration he used originally.

 

Jim,

FWIW, I agree with your decision to get the sucker up to you and handle it locally. I'd like to give your setup a shot on DD, and would really like to see some of the specs - your engine has had a definite influence on how I'm thinking I want my engine to get done. Send em along if you want me to run em through - minotaur15@hotmail.com is the email...

 

Trey- no reason to get a fluid dampner cause its a solid. I never have one.

crane 11522s, $220. about the same cost as comp Rs.

push rods, just a diff length.. same price. rockers, same ones..


the real cost increase is the cam(gotta go billet) and valve springs. IMo, you should use pacalloy springs($300 springs)

 

Well, I strongly agree with crating it up and getting it out of there, but I will disagree with some of the other stuff here.

If the springs were cycled before assembly and as long as they’re not installed so they are really close to coil bind with the valves open, them sitting for a year assembled should not hurt them significantly (I would still store them with the rockers backed off/removed…). Heat is what kills valve springs (causes them to take a set). All this being said, if you’re really worried about it, it’s not that hard to pull them before the engine is installed and test them. (in other words, I’d rather be safe then sorry, but I doubt that you’ll have a problem)

WRT to messing with them in the car, I’m not sure what your access to them is like, but if it’s like in a 4th gen, I’d suggest looking for a cam driven compressor that has a jessle adaptor, that has the advantage that you can use it in tight spaces since you can turn the handle in any direction that you need for room. I usually use a cheapy Summit one that I’ve made a little adaptor to work with shaft style setups, but I believe the Moroso one (that summit copied) is available with an optional adaptor.