All good advice right there. Going out and becoming well rounded and attending a school to learn how to think is more important than learning a skill IMHO. Doing this all in a setting opposite of the military as descibed above is what I would recomend as well. ;-)

Bret

 

Wow! You guys really went at it while I was busy! That's a bit of information that I wanted. It's not really what I asked for but thanks anyways!

My plan was, once I get a job in the industry, and get settled in, to go after a business degree so I could eventually do my own thing.

In your guys own opinion, what do you think I would be making out of SAM in the industry? What about in a few years, gaining experience?

Thanks for the words guys!

 

I agree, an engineer with out hands on experience is all to common.

However, learning engineering(to the level a degree would give you) from books/trial/error is TOUGH if not nearly impossible. Not to mention convincing an employeer you did this


learning to build an engine is a LOT easier to just learn on your own. i taught myself to work on cars and build engines, and even to do basic engine machine work (watching a machinest do it once is all i needed to learn basic stuff). Took 6 years at a university to scratch the surface of mechanical engineering!

 

I'm with Jordan on this one. I'd rather get the degree first and do SAMS later. Again once you have a full time job and you're making money, it just gets harder to go to school. If my folks were willing to put out the buck for college you can bet your A** that's what I'd be doing. I think you could probably get a good amount of engine building experience while going to school just doing things on your own, maybe even a part time job at a machine or engine building shop.

 

I strongly agree. It is reflected in their designs that I see on a daily basis. They are the exception, thankfully, not the rule.

Sure. That's what good teachers are all about.

I can't agree here. By not getting instruction, advice, etc. one is bound to make the same mistakes, and often not even realize them. Practice is good, but good instruction is worth it's weight. I've seen a lot of engines "built" by folks who really didnt know what they were doing, but thought they did. In many cases it's a tribute to Ed Cole's design of the SBC that they actually ran, and didn't gernade.

No comment.

 

I was in the same situation as you a year ago. I planned on going to work at a performance shop and bypassing college. Which was funny because I had been a 4.0 student my whole life. I love wrenching, fabricating, and everything else to do with cars. After talking to many people I figured out that I didn't want to make my life out of it. Working on others peoples car problems all day then going home to work on your own didn't sound too appealing. I'm currently majoring in Pharmacy as we have a SERIOUS lack of pharmacists in our area (But yet CVS, Walgreens, etc are still opening up on every corner). I'm going to make great money to spend on lots of toys and can go home and wrench on the car at night.

Everyone is different though. I have no problem doing manual labor and actually love it. I love fabricating parts and would absolutely love to have the knowledge from building engines such as Oldsstroker has. I actually almost became a welder.

Whatever you decide, just do not decide it on impulse. Good luck.

 

Well if I do this I won't be fixing people problems on their cars, maybe a little bit right out of here, but not forever. I'm NOT going to be doing repair work, I can't stand it. The only reason I do it on my car is it's MY car, I only trust a few people touching it, and none of them have shops.

I was thinking about maybe going down to SAM for just one of the courses. Just the block, just the head, or maybe even just the CNC. Which of these do you guys think will help me the MOST to learn the go fast trade? I was thinking of taking the block course because they talk about cams. I have already taken a head class...but it was strictly rebuilding. And then maybe later I could head to Joe Mondello's( ) porting class for a grand or two...I get a discount

Anyways, thanks for all the advice, you guys are helping out a lot!

 

1st off... get your degree. MBA, whatever... just go to school and do it. Don't wait until you're locked into a job, paying rent, car insurance and so on.... trying to make ends meet before you try and go back to school.

This is a trap a lot of young people fall into.

You ask some specific questions in regards to course selection at SAM. Unless you can find the right connection, I don't think any of those choices is going to get you far. But of course, my definition of "far" and yours may not be the same.

Let me try to paint a glimpse for you as best I can.

Let's say you complete a CNC course. If you have the right connections, you might land a job in an engine shop somewhere but the odds are probably stacked against you. If that doesn't come to fruition, then you might end up in someone's machine shop running a machine or two or three. At least this option, IMO anyways, is a little more marketable than just doing heads, etc.. Machine shops are plentiful, where as engine shops with CNC equipment aren't (not in this area anyways).

So you're a fast learner with great work ethic and you climb your way to the top of the pay scale. You're now 28, making $18 an hour and according to your boss, you're "maxed out" at top wage. Then you think to yourself.... "If ever he should pass on, then perhaps I can get his job for another dollar or two per hour".... then you remember that even though you're a good machinist at the top of the wage ladder.... you still aren't near the top of the totem pole. There are a number of guys with more experience than you and they're looking forward to a chance at that job too.
Now that you've reached top wage you can look forward to cost of living increases of 3% from now until retirement.

I picked $18 but I really don't have much of a clue about machinist wages. I do know that one of the bigger shops in Maryland pays their CNC guys anywhere from $15-20. Of course wages vary from region to region.

Either way, I'm not trying to go off the deep end on you Loony. I'm just trying to get a point across. That point being that NOW is the time to really think about your future. Talk to people who work in the industry and find out what it takes to make it. Then definine "making it" and ask yourself if the pay, prestige, whatever is what you really want.

With a degree, you can walk into just about any company and land some sort of decent paying job. May not even be related to the field you studied in college but the degree will open doors that would otherwise not exist for you.

Good luck.

-Mindgame

 

Excellent advice, Mindgame. Your numbers are very close, also.

One of the best things a degree, or associate degree says about one is that you had the intelligence, ability and moxie to complete it. If your degree happens to be in something that excites you, AND you get to use it in your job, so much the better. Not everyone has that opportunity.

If you ever decide to work for yourself, like starting your own engine business or head porting business, stuff like accounting or economics and especially written and verbal communication are invaluable skills. You don't always have customers lining up to have you do their work. Sometimes you have to communicate with them not only to find out what they need and want, but to convince them your are their guy.

FWIW, operating a CNC machine making widgets or brackets or carb spacers is not necessarily very creative. A competent operator is essential, but it's a routine job. Even if the machine is doing CNC porting, most of the time the operator isn't helping it, and he/she almost never has much input as to the shape of the port. However, forgetting to change a tool when it dulls, or crashing the system and dinging up a head will certainly get you noticed.

'Game and I have seen this real world for a number of years. He speaks the truth. Unfortunately we are in the age of instant gratification, and many folks aren't willing to hang in there, get the basics and qualify themselves to the point where customers or employers are willing to part with money to use their services.

Good Luck.

(Climbs down off soapbox and has another cup of coffee...)

 

wow, I'm currently in the middle of getting my mechanical engineering degree. This tread has been incourageing and informative, thanks old guys for taking the time to teach us stupid young guys a thing or two.
sincerely,
brandon

 

I'm a BSME and have worked as a Design Engineer and a Manufacturing Engineer. Ironic that I actually ended up trying to figure out how to make the crap I designed I used to ask "Who designed this stuff" only to find out it was my name on the drawings. Now I am the GM of a 70 million dollar manufacturing business. My wrenching and racing is just for giggles. If I get tired of it, I don't do it. Bottom line advice from me is, aim high. Get a technical degree if at all possible. It can lead you just about anywhere, even wrenching for a living if that's what you love. Gotta be happy!

Steve

 

Great thread....Can anyone recommend some beginner books on the subject (mech. eng, etc.)? What books do they use at SAM?

I am currently getting a degree in entreprenuerial mngt and my goal is to somehow be involved in performance cars. I want to learn as much as I can about the subject before entering a school like SAM, and would love to avoid it if possible (unlikely, however).

 

More than ironic in my book.

My BSME came with lots of "know how to make something before you design it" classes and in-shop internship. We thought it was fun and a great break from hittin' the books...and we got paid a little. Afterward I realized how well that prepares one. My best friend from college, as one of his jobs in a major OEM, setup classes for newly hired degreed engineers to acquaint them with how stuff is made. Blew my mind when I heard they had to do that, but it's obvious many well-known companies don't bother to do just that. You should see some of their drawings/specs. You know exactly what I mean, Steve.

It's scary to me to see what some degreed "Manufacturing Engineers" try to do to make parts. Well, it's also profitable when they sub it out to us for much less than their in-house cost, even if I charge a premium. We don't do anything cheap, but we may do it smart, or at least smarter than some.

Some of our best customers actually get us, the contract manufacturer, involved during the design process. Everyone wins that way. It's the exception rather than the rule. Too bad.

 

I am an absolute firm believer in concurrent design activities. Nothing gets me more upset than one of out engineers releasing designs "throwing it over the wall" without our manufacturing guys even looking at it. Is seems like it's the natural tendency of engineers to do it.

"Every good process degrades over a period of time if left alone" It never gets better by itself.

 

Are you my long-lost twin?

"throwing it over the wall" is one of my favorite lines.

"I designed it, you make it, damn it!" seems to be one popular line of thought. What they forget is that there's more to that quote..."no matter WHAT it costs."

What the hey...we make money doing it their way if we can't get them to listen. More's the pity.

"Every good process degrades over a period of time if left alone"
Did you ever work for an OEM automotive company?