I know this is Advanced Tech, where we talk about the deeper side of going fast. I posted in the Lounge and have been getting no responses, and since pretty much everyone in here has some sort of experience in the go fast industry. If this thread is a problem, I'm sorry, go ahead and delete it. Basically I'd like to know who has gone to SAM, or who has hired someone from SAM and what are you thoughts. How much could I expect to make right out of SAM, and with a few years of experience. If you could provide some information that you would tell your parents to try and sell them the idea of you attending SAM, that would help me out greatly. Thank you!

 

Loony,

You have a tough decision to make...

1) Build engines and wrench on cars or...

2) Earn an education that will later allow you to play with anything you want at your leisure...

If you'd really love wrenching for a living then I think a vocational education is probably the thing for you. Could lead to business ownership or wherever you're motivations take you.

What you need to do is sit down with your parents and discuss your future. Understand that parents always want what is best for you. If you are the type that tries one thing this week and another the next with no real conviction, then it might be hard for them to take you seriously. In that case I'd suggest busting your butt in a job and letting them know that you are saving your earnings to go to SAM. If that doesn't wake them up then I don't know what will.

Either way, you have to sit them down and let them know how important it is to you. If you're serious, they will see it.

I was a big gearhead as a teen and still am. Nothing's changed about that. I opted for computer science and if I had it all to do over again... I'd make the same choice. Doesn't slow me down one bit. Wish I could test theories, etc, but you don't need to work in the field to enjoy it. You do need a good chunk of change if you want to play with the really cool stuff though.

Good luck.

-Mindgame

 

I would consider getting a mechanical engineering degree first. THEN go do that. You will have quite a "tool box" of knowledge. But to be honest, you can teach yourself 75% of what you would have learned at SAM in a few books.

IMO.

 

Depends on the teacher Jordan.... knowing how to do the work to get what you are looking for as a engineer is the key... way to many young engineers out there who don't know how to build what they design. Actually doing both of these things would be a really good thing to do, but if you are not mechanically inclined or smart enough to do the engineering then it's a tough hill to climb. Most good engine guys are self taught, ME degrees help a bunch for a lot of things but the best head porters out there and some of the best engine builders I know have a good background and understanding of the engineering concepts they need to know and go from there.

Bret

 

If you go to SAM remember that you will get out of it only as much as you put into it. They don't "baby" you there at all. One dilema is that Jud has to teach to the "dumbest" in the class. If you are familiar with engines already, a lot will be repeated. Judson has to assume that you know nothing about engines.

There are students straight out of high school to retirees. While I was going (Feb04-Apr05) there were a few that had already been through mechanical engineering careers and decided to try something different.

One of the best things you will get by going to SAM is lots of contacts. THey know just about everybody in professional racing. If I hadn't gotten married right after I graduated, then I might've ended up going to work for a company like CompCams or World Products. However, my wife didn't want to move too far away from her parents. We are 4 hours away now, and I am working at an oilfield machine shop. Not exactly what I had in mind, but the pay and benefits are good. (I do a little head porting on the side after hours also ) If I hadn't been through SAM (at least the block course) then I wouldn't have been able to get this job.

 

Better examine the college engineering curriculum before you decide to go in that direction. Unless you like math and physics, I'd consider another career.

And what's with all this engineer talk anyways? What's wrong with being a physicist or mathematician?

They don't seem to get much love these days now do they?

-Mindgame

 

LOL

Isn't a good engineer also a physicist and a mathematician? Just kidding...Mechanical Engineering is more of an all-encompasing background than just pure math and physics. I get lost in math higher than diff-equations, and particle physics which requires higher math to even try to understand is more like the Holy Grail.

That being said, the best cam designer I know, Billy Godbolt of Comp, is a particle physicist by education, and a gearhead. He's VERY knowledgeable on many things far outside of particle physics however, and a great teacher.

Bottom line, IMO, is the more you know about "how the world works", the better engine person, cam person, designer person, or even software designer you can be. Hell it even helps solve problems around the house like a little velocity/flow problem with a water pump in those little tabletop fountains. Made some points by modifying it.

Loony,

As far as SAM, AdioSS made some good points. Good teaching gets information to all levels of students. Unfortunately they all don't have the same capacity to learn or the same basic background, so it you have more knowledge than the entry level folks in your class, you might be disappointed in what you learn. I hope there are advanced classes after everyone gets thru the basics.

"Effort = Results" Wasn't that a Penske motto? It certainly applies to SAM or any college.

Good luck!

 

The "head class" is basically the advanced part of the school, or it was a few months ago. They have been working on getting a CNC course going, but from what I've learned about CNC stuff since then, the head class will still be higher IMO.

Before I went to SAM I had already been through the entire auto tech program in Jr college, and I have been reading the Advance Tech forum here for about 4 years or so. I usually did very well. However some students couldn't tell you the difference in a lifter and a piston and didn't have any idea how to read a micrometer before they went there. It usually took them longer to figure things out.

 

Ha ha....

I was kinda joking there OS but you're right... the "good" mechanical engineers are a little physicist & mathematician rolled into one. Some of them couldn't design their way out of a wet paper bag but that's another thread right.
I'm preaching to the choir here but you know as well as I do that it's all about applying that knowledge. Even a computer science guy like me that minored in mathematics can grasp engineering formulae with a "can do" attitude.

WRT Godbold...

I have a similar acquaintance in a physicist of lesser reknown and he's also one hell of a gear head. Work with the guy every day. Given his education (Ph.D), I don't doubt there's much of anything he can't get his head around.

And since we're on the subject of careers let me throw out this little tidbit of advice for you young guys trying to figure it all out....

Do what you love and find a way to make money at it.

I look forward to going to work everyday and I'd have to be a surgeon, gynecologist, anesthesiologist or lawyer to take home more money. The med guys can keep their malpractice insurance, gynecology would ruin my sex life and lawyers suck, so I guess I'm doing alright. The money is just a perk. The main thing is doing what you love and living life the way you want to.

Didn't mean to get on any kind of soapbox, but my nephew and I were talking about this stuff the other day and I pretty much told him the same thing so..... best of luck and whatever you do, make the most of it.

-Mindgame

 

Apply to college and see where you get in, I did mechanical engineering for 3 years before I had to leave for a family crisis, havent gone back yet because I got a good local job. You had better be good at math AND physics, although I was top of my HS class at chem and physics, my math skills were weak, and it was some serious catchup in college.

Like Mindgame said, get a degree and a good job, then wrench on your own time, have the time and the money to build and play with your toys rather than always building them for someone else. Don't think that just because you have gone to SAM that all the high performance shops will be looking for you, trades are very much a family buisiness. I am lucky that I got into the high performance end of things, as there are many machine shops around that do the same old thing day after day.

Make and informed choice, then put everything you have into it to ensure success.

 

All stuff I've been thinking about, great to hear this stuff...

 

I agree.... I had a buddy do a stint with a gyno and I couldn't take that job, even if you get one perk a day/week.... the rest would ruin it for me.

Do what you like, your interest in something will lead you to be better at it. Hell I was a stock broker, and if I liked doing that I would have much more money than I needed, but selling ice to eskimos is not that much of a talent... hell most stock brokers can't even understand enough economics to get a minor in it.

All depends, I don't like being under my car, or anyone elses for that matter. I do enjoy building engines and fabricating parts.... other peoples toys are nice in that I get to play with a lot of things and see them work, much more than I could ever afford and only once in a while do I have to crawl under the things and help them out.... but then sometimes that's relaxing.

Bret

 

I enjoy building up a car for the first time, I like coming up with an engine combo and seeing the results.....I don't like doing the maintinence and fixing broken stuff. As for freinds cars, I kinds sit back and drink beer while telling them how to fix it from my chair.

I'm getting real tired of bloody knuckles and a sore back, just this week I have had 6 stitches from a main housing bore edge, and a sunburned arm from TIG welding on a head too long without a long-sleeved shirt.

 

I'm a systems engineer and work with network infrastructure equipment as a consultant. I work on my camaro for fun, but I wouldn't want to do that for a living as I'm pretty sure it that would take all of the fun out of it for me. From what I've heard about SAM it's a great curriculum, and apparently most of it's graduates do well in the automotive industry. However, I would recommend getting some sort of Bachelor's Degree, Engineering of course would be my preference, but any four year degree would do. I'm of the old school and still believe in education for it's own sake, as I believe that it just makes you a more "well rounded" individual. I did it the hard way, spending 13 years in the Navy working as an Electronics Technician, and getting my degree on nights and weekends. I'd strongly recommend the other way - you know the way that includes women of questionable morals and keg parties. Above all find something that you like, for the secret to life is doing what you love, and being able to feed yourself doing it.

 

I'm right there with all the guys who say to do what you love and find a way to make money doing it. If you love working on cars then work on cars, but get a business degree for a little know-how in owning your own shop.