ok, i'm pretty sure that this is gonna cause a lot of people to complain, cause methanol is not exactly available at your corner mobile. However, I've been thinkin of switching my motor over to a mechanical methanol injection setup for several reasons....

1) Methanol burns very clean, so if need be you could pass emissions with a pretty wild build.
2) The mechanical injection setup im considering, which is available from sassy racing engines is reliable and consistant. its also fairly easy to tune.
3)Never have to worry about detonation again.
4)i can keep my 11.5:1 pistons, and have a blower if i wanted to with alchohol.
5)It isnt any more expensive than race gas
6)It has a cooling effect on the engine.
7)No one else really does it on the street.

Now granted, you would need a pretty large fuel tank because you need to burn about twice as much methanol as you would gasoline, because the stoich ratio is in the 7's someplace as opposed to 14's for gas. You'd need to have some drums at your house probably to fill the thing up too. But you have all this potential for the future that just isnt available with gas in most engine combo's.

 

oops, i probably should have mentioned that i have quite a bit of exposure to a methanol setup too, and i can get the parts pretty cheap. I'm a crew guy (when time allows) for the boston big shot monster truck. The truck is owned and driven by a friend of mine (also from dracut ma) the motor is a 482 big block chevy with an 8-71 blower 10% overdriven with a methanol injection setup. it makes somewhere in the neighborhood of 1500hp. (which is about 1000 horse behind some guys) anyhow, because im familiar with the setup it makes it that much more tempting to try.

Also, im not one of those people that is bothered by inconvenience of some not-so-streetable parts....so thats not really an issue. (for example, if jeff would let me, id drive the damn monster truck to dunkin donuts)

just interested in knowing if anyone has done this on the street and what you guys think about it (I apologize for being long winded, lots of coffee this morning)

 

Other than eating any rubber in the fuel system and the daily oil changes, and the squriting gas in the hat every time you start it, the fact that the car can not set for any lenth of time with fuel in it, methanol is very corrosive. It would work

 

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I really dont think thats a problem, all my lines are braided stainless with neoprene inner lining. Methanol only eats natural or inferior rubber. other than that there isnt any rubber in the fuel system, even the carb metering block gaskets are already neoprene (You can order the alcohol metering blocks for the demon right from barry grant too)

you dont have to squirt gas into the hat every time you start an alcohol motor unless perhaps it hasnt been run in awhile. We only prime the hat on the truck when we first start it up for the day. It is good to run it out of fuel when you shut it down though so the alcohol doesnt crystalize in the lines

Methanol isnt really corrosive, it doesnt present oxidation problems with metal components in the engine really. so you dont really have to change the oil alot(i change mine very often anyways). Im not sure, but it sounds like your talking about nitro here. any fuel containing nitro is EXTREMELY corrosive and mandates that you change your oil constantly cause it loves to eat gaskets.

 

your talking about passing emissions, which leads me to believe your working on a streetable car.
if your car NEEDS methanol, i dont believe it would pass emissions anyway. not visual, anyway.
if it is in fact a street car, i wouldnt bother with the stuff unless i was making 1000+ hp. pretty common to see cars with 900hp using gas.
jeremy

 

i would call my car the "sure its a street car" category.....just passing emissions would be good enough, my brother is an inspection tech.....if the car blows clean that makes it easier to for him to give me a sticker....visual wouldnt be a problem in that case.....like i said before the car doesnt need methanol right now.....but if i wanted to something silly like run a blower with the current compression ratio (11.5:1) gas is kinda outta the question.....and it would be different, that adds to the appeal

 

I had a friend that ran his 5cyl Audi on methanol. He actually made it at home, on his own with a hotwater heater, 2 50gal drums, and some other things. In the end, not including the $400 setup costs, he managed to get away with it for like $.60/gal...

Swapped the gas tank for a more tolerant fuel cell in the trunk, changed all the fuel lines and connections to SS and neoprene, no rubber gaskets, and it had mechanical fuel injection (some parts for that though we ended up having to be machined out of SS because the alloy ones died)

With a hollow cat and a glasspack it passed the sniffer with flying colors.

Methanol, though the stoic ratio is like 7 as was said, is I believe approx also 106 octane. methanol and boost is good, but I've heard running a nitrous motor with methanol is trouble.

I understand your desires to run methanol, I even was considering running my old DSM that way. I could boost it without an intercooler all day long. I would say there is nothing against it, however, IMHO it's a great idea, but perhaps not streetable enough. If you're going to make a lot of power, you're going to need new pistons and rods. So do that and drop the compression to like 9.5:1 and get a supercharger and intercooler. Run 6-8psi on pump gas, maybe even 6psi and get away with 91 octane if you're lucky. Now I'd simply add another fuel system to the car at that point, as I think it'd be simpler, and get a control system so that you could shut off the injectors. Boom. You have a day you want to run methanol so you pop open the trunk, toss in the fuel cell, attach the lines, and flip a switch. You wouldnt loose drive-ability - espicially if you dont feel like paying for methanol all the time.

 

you have alot of good points, but the thing is if you wanna supercharge with high compression you can make waaaaay more power...and to do that you need methanol.....ive never seen an octane rating on methanol, but is far, far, far more resistant to detonation than any gasoline

also, in order for methanol to run correctly or to realize any benefits you need to have alot of compression

 

If you want an injection system, consider using a Flying Toilet. http://www.ronsfuel.com/

It already sounds like you have a good start on doing the conversion. Fuel lines with a Teflon lining is best but synthetic rubber works fine and is cheaper. Don't use aluminum fittings. You need to have large lines to feed an alcohol system especially if the fuel is in the back. The prefered method is to have a fuel cell in the front and to use a belt driven fuel pump.

I'm converting to alcohol this winter. -10 fuel lines from the fuel cell in the rear all the way up to the regulator. -8 lines feeding both float bowls. I'll be using an Aeromotive A2000 fuel pump.

Other than the extra maintanence of running alcohol, there are a lot more advantages. Because of the amount of fuel that's being dumped into the engine, it's hard to build heat. A real small rad is all thats needed compared to the same engine running on gas. It's almost impossible to get detonation with alcohol even at 106 octane. Run rich and the engine goes down on power. Run lean and the engine goes down on power. It won't ping or knock.

Compression ratio should be as high as you can get it. An 8:1 engine will still run on alcohol and can go as high as 17:1. 13-15 is prefered. You won't make a lot more HP with alcohol than with gasoline but you make a lot more torque.

You can buy a "top lube" that's added to the alcohol. It lubricates the valve guides. It's also available scented so the exhaust doesn't smell like a funeral parlor. Cherry, grape, bubble gum, chocolate are just some of the scents. One bottle is enough for a 45 gallon drum of fuel.

Compared to race gas, methanol is cheaper but you also burn twice as much. Methanol alcohol is know by a few names. Wood alcohol and Methyl Hydrate are some. You can buy Methyl Hydrate almost anywhere if you were in a pinch for fuel.

You can hook up a gasoline primer system for starting the engine on cold days. A 1 quart fuel cell, small electric pump and a nozzle into the intake is all that's needed.

 

I had a flying toilet on a BBC, and as shipped you would need some extras(dial-a-jet) to make it very good on the street. It is either fat at idle, and good on the big end. Or lean at idle, and fat on the big end. In the middle is kind of no mans land. Not a poor design, it is just the nature of using a barrel valve to regulate fuel flow at part throtle. For the street a carb would be better.

Another option that would work very well is LPG. Get you two impco 600cfm propane carbs and suck that through your blower! Talk about clean burning too.

FYI on the RON's setup. Go with the high speed bypass valve, and set it up leanish on the off idle side. Then as it gets fat on top you can set the bypass to lean it out some on the top end. Picked me up some tenths on my 60ft because I could run it leaner with better response off the trans brake!

You guys should check out www.kinsler.com they have some neat stuff, and even some efi stuff! Get their catalog sent to you it has some great fuel system diagrams and base tunning info for constant flow systems. They sell it, but I talked them into giving it to me!

 

what do you guys think of ethanol? It's even less corrosive than methanol, but it doesn't put out as much power. The stoic a/f ratio ratios for methanol, ethanol and gasoline are 6.47:1, 9.01:1,
and 14.96:1 respectively. So you would need to burn a less quantity of C2H5OH (eth) compared to CH3OH (meth) meaning my 16 gallon Harwood fuel cell would last longer


A distillery could be made pretty easily and eventhough that costs a few hundred bucks for parts, the results let you make fuel from basically scraps.

 

i understand that the reason to do it would really be the 'cool' factor, and its not a bad reason

how often would you cruise it? weekends even?

also when you make a 'street' car with 1000hp, how do you ever lay that down? even with slicks.....

i'd be bummed if even when cruising at 80mph i couldnt rhomp it all the way without spinning tires


i think a system where with 15 minutes under the hood you could switch back and forth would be much cooler

 

This guys makes a few good points.....however,

You cant switch back and forth if you go to a ravenous (15:1 or higher) comp ratio to take advantage of the methanol. if you didnt then i guess it would be possible, but i dont see what the benefit would be unless it was just to be different.

Also, i drive the car pretty often, several times a week and alot on the weekends

Lastly, if I romped on the pedal at 80 mph and broke the tires loose id be ecstatic. that would frican rule ( the first time i took the car to the track with street tires on it which were bald, it broke the tires loose WOT shifting into 4th....kinda scary but oooohhhh so bad ***

 

ya i didnt really cover my bases i'm well aware most people would love it if you could break the tires at 80mph

if you are capable of doing it..... then for the 'cool' factor, i say do it

it certainly would be badass....

some other points i passed though are.... this isnt the only way to make 1000hp, but ya its a cool way to do it of course

so if you do it do you plan to go to a much higher comp ratio?
i still think being able to switch would be cool, but sounds like you want to go with a monster compression ratio soon so there wouldnt be the option

if you stayed at 11.5 or so and ran huge boost with meth and little/no boost when switching to gas that would work

let us know how it goes if you go for it

 

The one thing that i would look into is a water seperator for the oil. I have not dealt with the alcohol yet but it is in my think about it file. The shop where my car is at wants me to swap over to alchy for the turbos but i really dont feel like it yet. I want to do some gasoline racing

PS I would love to and am building a car that can spin the tires at 80 gonna be fun
Steven