I understand that Central Tools used to make precision measuring devices for Snap-On. Since Snap-On went in-house (or at least to a different brand I'm unaware of) Central tools has supplied for MAC Tools.

Adding Metco Tools to the list of quality tools out there, I've been cruising eBay and found that Starrett seems to be "the big dog" and coincidentally, out of my price range considerablly. With my engine build I'm looking for external micrometers in the range of 0 to 6" capabilty.

My question is this:
What brands are out there I should include? Ebay is FULL of cheap micro's I really don't feel comfortable using... and a fair number of extremely expensive sets as well.

Is Mitotoyo a decent brand? They seem cheaply priced, but the pics look good. Has anyone used this brand before, and if so, how accurate is the calibration/durability?

Any brands I should be watching for? (positive or negative)

Thanks guys...

 

some of the old Central indicators i have are not that great in quality ..but they still give accurate readings

Is Mitotoyo a decent brand? yes !! very good quality with smooth movement ..also checkout TeaLock (spelling ??)

very impressed with TeaLock dial indicator quality

things to watch out for if its a dial indicator is back lug orientation and hole diameter ..and is it 3 screws or 4 screws and can use position back lug in different planes ?(4 evenly spaced screws)

Starrett ..i have also, but way over priced

sometimes a ratchet/noise mike set are very useful until you gain ability to "feel" mike

also a 1 inch Ball Mike for rod/main bearings (curved surfaces)
that reads in ten thousandths

can checkout price differences between Mikes that read to .001 thousandths -VS- Mike that read to .0001" ten-thousandths

ratchet/noise type mikes -vs- regular feel only Mikes

might look at Manhattan Supply Company (MSC Website)
they have multiple locations in every State

also Perf Tool Sites

 

awesome. there's some great deals on Mitotoyo on ebay.

ok... hole diameter I understand, but can you explain the back lug orientation a bit more.

Would I be better off going with a design more like this: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...tem=2462765042
instead of this: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...EBWN%3AIT&rd=1

It looks to me like the second one is a simple 2-point lock gauge. I was under the impression that the 4-point gauge in the first link would be pointless in different bore ranges since it seems the 3-point arch made by each screww wouldn't be correct for anything but one specific-bore. are the screws adjustable at all?

yeah, I nearly choked on the price listed. (glad it just wasn't me)

Quote:

sometimes a ratchet/noise mike set are very useful until you gain ability to "feel" mike

understood. I've used a few small-scall micrometers in my science courses (BioChem major)... I really like a small clicking when using micros.

Quote:

might look at Manhattan Supply Company (MSC Website) they have multiple locations in every State
also Perf Tool Sites

Thanks!

 

It looks to me like the second one is a simple 2-point lock gauge. I was under the impression that the 4-point gauge in the first link would be pointless in different bore ranges since it seems the 3-point arch made by each screww wouldn't be correct for anything but one specific-bore. are the screws adjustable at all?
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Steve..you misunderstood me..i'm sorry i didn't explain better

i was referring only to a 1 inch dial inicator in case you were interested in purchasing one along with a set of Mikes

the 3 or 4 screws are very tiny screws that attach dial indicator backplates/covers on the dial indicator ...it has the Lug on it
the 4 evenly scpaced screw type backs allow you to orienate the lug either Vertical or Horizontal

the Dial Bore Gauge is what you were talking about
i use a high dollar Sunnen with .0001" built-in maginifying large diameter setting fixture

but have also used the Mitotoyo Dial Bore Gauge for mikeing cylinder bores , mains, rods, etc ...very accurate ..and at that time was very cheap ..if i had the extra money, right then and there would have purchased that Gauge also even though i had the Sunnen ..the quality was that great, a bargain back then

The B/FX Camaro (John Cunningham) back in 1984 we raced was co-sponsored by MSC for short term ...MSC also sponsored Ken Veney Funny Car at one time ....now days prices at MSC are kinda high ..back then had connections to get anything real cheap

get on MSC Flyer list and every once in awhile you get great deals

 

Steve, my Sunnen is 3 Centering Legs with a 4th indicator probe

the Mitotoyo was made same way back then..hadn't recently seen any newer version

the Central Dial Bore Gauge looks like Centrals come a long way ..looks like decent quality except maybe for actual dial indicator part.

 

Starret all the way, price be damned! I have some Starret tools that are 75+ years old and still work fine.

Rich Krause

 

I agree with MaxRaceSoftware (Larry).
Mitutoyo measuring instruments are top notch. Buy .0001 reading mics instead of .001 reading.

Mitutoyo digital calipers are also well done.

I also like Sunnen bore gages.

My opinion, and it's just an opinion, is that gages sold by "Tool Suppliers" are rugged first, of good quality, but not what is used in precision machine shops. No flames intended, as we have close personal ties with one company representative.

One caveat: buying used measuring tools is like buying used engine rotating parts; you never know what abuse thy have endured. If you buy off the internet, assure that you can return them for credit if they aren't as represented.

There are some bargains in tools on eBay, and some junk. Some of the stuff sells at a fraction of new and some sells at or above new! Just saw an example of that recently: a $250 new honing accessory tool sold for about $230 or so, and an $850 version sold for about $150. Go figure. Some of the best buys are in the larger size gages, too. many of them haven't been used anywhere near as much as 0-1" or 1"-2" tools.

If you want to check new prices (or buy new) try www.mscdirect.com

Check the accuracy, alignment, etc. against gage blocks. If you know someone who operates a precision machine shop, ask if they will check the gages for you. I like to check a micrometer in at least its smallest and largest measurement against gage blocks. This will tell you if it is linear. Note that if the measurement is off the same amount, the barrel can be adjusted for alignment. If the mics come with a case, there shuld be a little stamped metal spanner with it for adjustment.

My $.02

 

Also look for mics with a solid beam it will provide accurate measurements over a longer period. Brown and Sharpe are also very good but quite expensive. The hollow beams work well but can bend, flex or dent.

Just my .02

P.S. I worked at a machine/hydraulic shop for two years

 

I would go with the mitutoyo on just about everything unless you are planning to use them every day day in and day out.As for the mics go I woud get the rachet feature and get the .0001 increments.I would also go with the mitutoyo bore gauge and get it with the .0001 increments.The sunnen bore gauges are good but they are over priced.Another good bore gauge would be from federal they seem to be pretty good.As for every day use I would go with something like the Starret or Brown&Sharp.

 

As an unintended tesimonial....

I had no idea Starrett was still making tools. I have my GRANDAFTHER'S STARRETT mics from freaking WORLD WAR II. No joke. I try my best to keep surface rust off of them. Cosmetically, they have seen better days. Buy if you want to nail a measurement dead-on +- .0001" these are the only tools I use. When I use them it's almost like a religious expereince. I take them out of their tonge-and-groove wooden box with sliding wooden lid, unwrap the cotten gauze protective wrapper from around them and generally treat them like they were the original 10 Commandments handed down from off the mountain.

Do I know how to actually USE a tool of that quality correctly? You damned right I do. My grandfatther who left them to me used to calibrate bombsites on B-17 and B-29 bombers. He taught me my mechanical "touch" for things like this. I LEARNED on these tools. I had no idea what I actually had in my hand back then.

This is a tool that is literally TWICE as old as I am and it'll still dead-zero like the day it was made. Spin the piston in your hand and it moves like silk. No oil, no nothing, just dead-perfect machining. Mic something at .3875 and then do it again. And again. And again. Always nails .3875. Time and time gain- as many times as you want to measure it- no variation. I am really blown away that Starrett is still in business. I figured they were dead and gone decades ago. I had no idea.

 

When I started my apprentiship as a machinist many years ago, Starrett was the flagship for pricision measuring tools. If you want quality and your livelyhood depends on precision, you went Starrett. Like mentioned above, Mitotoyo makes some pretty nice "stuff". It was hard at the time to "sell" the old-timers on anything but Starrett...almost blasphemous...but Mitotoyo became a second favorite...mostly b/c of the competitive price and quality. I owned both, but presently own none. I left the business 15 years ago, and never looked back. I even left around $8 g's of tools and toolbox right where it sat when I left the trade. Go figure!....

 

starett is indead the one to get if you can. if not look into brown and sharp's they are also excellent.

mitsi's are good for cheap digital stuff but i would stick to the above mentioned for 0-6 mic's. i'm been a machinists for 7 yrs, if you want something realiable your gonna have to pay unless you can find someone getting out of the trade and selling their whole tool box for a decent price.

side note, things like this shouldn't be left in a garage unless it's heated, moisture and temp changes will ruin presion instruments.

 

This is no doubt an emotional subject for us machinst.

Myself being an aussie and considering that there are NO precision tool manufacturers to speak of from my home I hold no loyalty per se. I've bought from the americans, the japanese, the germans and even the polish! Believe it or not, they make a nice economy micrometer.

I don't see the real issue with price. As I see it each manufacturer offers "models" in competetive price ranges.

I don't believe there is one "Big Dawg" in precision instruments either. Look at any precision manufacturer, wether it be medical, automotive, aerospace and you'll likely see a QC department that uses an abundance of instrumentation from Starrett, Fowler, Brown & Sharpe, Mitutoya and Mahr. I personally have favorites for each type of measuring tool just based on my experience in this trade for the last 30+ years.

You ask about mics. Let's go back to this price discrepency....

Starrett, for instance, has a 0-1" with .0001 res. and carbide faces (carbide faces & .0001 resolution recommended) for around $85 USD. Brown and Sharpe has a model about the exact same price. Mitu has a mic that sells for a smidge better than $90 and another model that goes for about $75. Then they have an economy model that looks like the $75 model but sells for about $20 less. I'd pass on those and only mention them because you need to check the model you're buying! Someone (perhaps ebay?) may very well attempt to pass the cheapie off as the $75 model.

So where's that big price difference in Starrett vs everyone else?

If you look at flatness and parallelism specs for Mitu mics they are one of the best in the industry. You don't need me to tell you that though, Mitu displays their specs openly.

Friction vs ratchet is a matter of preference. I personally prefer friction but the ratchet may be better suited to greenies. Slant-line vs straight-line is another matter of preference. You'd have to be in contact with either enough to develop a favorite.

The overall feel of a micrometer is my biggest concern and certain brands like a few of B & Sharpe's models just feel bulky to me. Again, this comes with working with a tool every day and probably won't mean much to you.

For a ball mic, you'll want Mitu or Brown & Sharpe in .0001 resolution. Starrett doesn't make a .0001 res. ball mic.. at least they didn't the last time I checked. Price difference within $10.

I agree with Larry on the Teclock dial indicators. They are good quality general use indicators. If you're going to buy one I'd go with Teclock or B & Sharpe. For a precision model, Starrett or Mitutoya. A magnetic base is also a good thing to have in any toolbox.

Bore gages.... I'd find a friend and borrow. Either that or take the "whatever-it-is-your-checking" to a shop and watch them check it out. Good bore gages aren't cheap and would likely be a waste of money for you.

Reading through your original post, it doesn't look like you're going to be building turbine engines. You just need some good quality tools that you can get a lifetime of use out of. I believe in buying the right tool for the job and obviously your needs are a little different than mine or any other person who makes a living off of precise measurements.

You should be careful though. Buying used precision tools is risky. It only takes one drop to ruin a micrometer, I don't care what brand it is. I would buy new.

Good day!

 

Easy for you to say, you're in a position to save on shipping.

Didn't ever buy Starret new, but first mic I owned, was a used 1", bought for a buck, from a guy ready to retire, back in the 60s, and he had it for decades. Still have, and use it, and still accurate. Course, I don't use any of my mics as C clamps.

The new 'stuff' I bought, (from early on) was almost exclusively Mitotoyo. As an apprectice, it was cheap, but over decades of time, the quality has proved itself.

Well, I do use them every day! See note above. As for the rachet...not here. In retrospect, with experience , glad I didn't. I much prefer micing by feel, with any mic.

 

I came by some Starret stuff the easy way. My father-in-law is an EE who started his working career after high school at Starret. He worked his way up to a machinist/quality control position and then got drafted. After WWII he went to college and so on. He accumulated a lot of Starret stuff when he worked there and after graduation started a business that involved a lot of precision machining. So, more measuring tools which he got from Starret. He has since retired and some of the excess tools have found their way to my box. He still has a full set of tools, even though he doesn't use them, which I completely understand.

Rich Krause