I don't have any more information about Amsoil filters than you do. I just want the synthetic oil without paying an arm and a leg. Their oil is probably about on par with Mobil 1. Each claims to be better. Either one is probably far better than you ever need it to be. I use parts-store brand name filters just like most of you guys. I like Hastings filters if I can lay my hands on them, but I often end up with Purolator, AC or even Fram filters (I just love that no-slip grip stuff on the end).

Amoil "bypass" filters are actually a 2 filter remote setup with only a small portion of the oil going through the really fine small-micron filter. The vast majority of the oil goes through the standard oil filter that it works in conjuction with. If you tried to shove all the oil through the fine filter you'd never get enough oil through it and it would quickly plug up. When using a bypass filter system there are filter change regimens they recommend as well as a schedule of oil lab tests they recommend you do (send them oil samples, they lab test it and tell you if all's well). If you use their highest grade oil and the bypass filter system they say you may NEVER have to change your oil, although more typically they recommend changes at 25K miles. I personally, use their synthetic in my daily drivers along with a good quality standard oil fitler and do oil changes about every 10K miles. One of my vehicles has 225K miles on it using this regimen, so it's not total BS or marketing hype.

 

Ok, I think since this is still a daily driver I will keep the bypass (need to buy a new one now) and now I just need to know what filter to run. Sounds like AC or KN are the best way to go. Anyone have a part # for either of the two (biggest that will fit in stock location).

Bret..you say nothing over 60psi on a SBC is required, if I use a stock pump (welded pickup) should I use the white spring? Or just the spring that comes in it?

 

Yeah...I saw the video of the Semi that had like 400k on the diesel with the same oil in it the entire time...just with filter changes every 25k

 

I'm not the only one who says that. Back in the day Smokey said 10psi for every 1000rpm, well todays thinking is that you run the oil pump as slow as you need to do the job. 60psi might take the upgraded spring if you have huge clearances. The stock spring usually gives you 60psi at higher RPM so you really don't need to worry too much about that.

Same topic different story. Big block pumps or high volume pumps, they are not needed and in fact a high volume pump can full so much oil that it will suck the pan dry in some cases. Personally I want all the oil back in the bottom on the pan as fast as possible. That and the higher the volume or a big block pump takes more energy to turn, therefore less power gets to the flywheel.

Bret

 

The Motor was clearanced by the Engine buillder who did my short block and I still haven't figued out why 1,2 & 7 were barely touching the pan. As far as plugging the bypass hole the motor builder I used recommended it and does it on all his high performannce motors which is all he builds. He has been doing it for years and a lot of his motors that are used at the track only have lasted for a lot more 1/4 mile trips by plugging the bypass than not. Also if you buy an aftermarket filter block they don't even have the bypass on them.

 

I'm with SStroker about high volume oil pumps. If the engine's got the right tolerances for the oil you are running a bigger oil pump is counter-productive. I have built a few street engines. In only rare instances have I run a higher volume pump (usually becuase it was what I had laying around or was given to me, not because it was necessary). Oil pressure usually maxes out around 2500-3000 RPMs at whatever the relief spring is set for. 45lbs for stock, 65lbs for a more performance-oriented motor. And that's using a stock volume SBC replacement pump. If you need more volume from the pump than that, something's bleeding off more oil than it should somewhere inside the engine.

If your engine is "loose" somewhere you'll notice it first at idle with the engine fully warmed up. Oil pressure will usually be fine when revved up but when you come down to a low idle (700-900 RPMs) on a hot engine oil pressure will fall off a cliff. In my opinion, this is when most people switch to a higher volume pump. But it's a "crutch" for something else in the motor that isn't set up right.

 

I had planned on running stock volume. Ill probly stick with stock pressure and volume now. Should I just pick up a new GM pump and weld the pickup, or grab a melling OEM replacement?

 

I don't agree with that at all, anything and I repeat anything can happen.

 

How is it possible for the pump to suck the pan dry. That would meabn there would have to be 5 quarts of oil on top of the engine, i.e valve covers and maybe lifter valley. If your oil galley holes were plugged, I could see it maybe. These are one of these things that everyone says but I have not as of yet seen any proof of how it actually happens. Also, I read in another post, melling has on their website that a HV pump will not and can not suck a pan dry, I haven't found it so I don't know if its true or not. I am just asking for some factual information instead of, well I heard it somewhere....now it's the gosple. I hate that. There's so much crap out there that people say and really don't know anything about. Arrrrrrgh.

 

http://www.melling.com/support/bulletins/view.asp?id=12

#2 !!!!!!!!!

If melling says it, I am inclined to believe them unless I see some other information from a reputal source.

Jason

if you go to the bulletin section, it has more.

 

i use and run Melling Hi-Volume oil pumps in every engine i've built

never had oil problem, but i always open up oil return drain holes in rear of block if its SBC

i've seen other racers put screens and magnets with so much epoxy that oil can't get back to pan quick enough

if "drain back" is paid attention to , there is no problem with Hi-Volume pumps

i test all oil pumps for pressure using 2000 RPM 1 HP commercial drill and room temperature straight 30 wgt oil

if a 1 HP drill can spin oil pump almost 2000 rpms at 60 psi
thats 3000 to 4000 engine rpms..thats not a huge HP loss

in a few dyno tests with SBC, Buick IMSA V6, and Chrysler SS Hemi engines on dyno...there will only small HP losses as
oil pressure was drastically increased
never saw more than 6 to 8 HP differences with varying oil pressure by 40+ psi...mostly the Chrysler Hemi either gained or hurt HP playing with oil pressure psi
the Buick IMSA race V6 ..we varied oil pressure 40+ psi with external pump and only a couple of HP one way or other
we tested from 60 psi to 105 psi ...customer ran 90 psi in IMSA Road Racing as did many other Buick V6 at that time
some ran 100+ psi

so if some one tells you are going to loose a bunch of HP with either a Hi_volume or High Pressure oil pump ,,it just isn't so !
a couple of HP one way or other ..thats it

reminds me of Magneto -VS- MSD distributor
every once in awhile you'll hear some one say it takes 20 to 30 hp to turn a Mag ...its not true !!!

my distributor machine has a 3/4 HP electric motor that can turn any regular distributor to 11,000 RPMs (tach limit)

with Mag...around 9000 RPM or slightly higher on 3/4 HP
firing MAG with live spark board in both cases

ran a back-to-back Mag -VS- MSD setup in Larry Cummings
engine( Larry Cummings was in Reher/Morrison ad)(gasoline used)on my dyno ....his Mag was approx 2 HP better than MSD setup for his particular combo that day...almost dead even ...and not the 20 to 30 hp some claim you loose

if you are very careful with drain back , hi-volume oil pump will not be a problem

even with normal regular oil pump if someone puts too much epoxy around screens in drain back holes..or if someone doesn't checkout his block's drain back holes or path...can get you into trouble.

 

Good points Larry, but what I'm wondering does the HV pump help? If it barely hurts from what you have found (others differ on that) then what's the use of it if a small volume pump can do the job?

Usually a motor has a problem due to the pump picking up air rather than oil, so the fasther you can get the oil back to the pan and off the rotating parts along with only giving the top of the motor the oil it needs the less likely you are to have the pickup uncovered. I think we all agree on that.

But this is one of those things like roller cam bearings. It's being turned half the speed of the motor so the friction advantages are not that big compared to friction gains in rings, main and rod bearings.

Bret

 

Good points Larry, but what I'm wondering does the HV pump help? If it barely hurts from what you have found (others differ on that) then what's the use of it if a small volume pump can do the job?
==================================

at idle rpms and crusing at low rpms , the hi-volume pump has a little more psi which helps satisfy customer

i cut a slot in front cam bearing to oil chain and sprocket surfaces
along with running a little extra clearances on rods and mains even in pure street engines..the hi volume Melling M55HV along with heavy duty melling shaft and correct pickup and pickup location for extra height of Hi-Volume pump works great

i have 1 customer
http://www.maxracesoftware.com/Keith_Broussard.jpg

that uses a Melling M77HV BBC oil pump in a 355 cid SBC engine
for years with no problems

i keep telling him you should just run the M55HV SBC pump instead, but he doesn't listen .

The engine in that picture has M77HV BBC pump in SBC 355

 

This is telling, AFAIC. I call it the 'monkey see, monkey do' syndrone. Someone sees someone else run a HV, so now I gotta, or, someone seeing their favorite race team have a HV sticker in the window, so now I gotta run one on the street.

It is amusing to me, how decades ago, the std. vol. pump was more than adequate, but today somehow, it is not. There are engine builders, on this forum, that know how efficient the sbc oiling system is. Several decades ago, an engine builder, whom gm trusted with some of their testing btw, once told me jokingly, you could oil the sbc with an oil can. The point he was making, was understood. I've run a sbc with (what appeared to be) zero oil pressure, (thot the gauge was bad) at appr. 3000 rpm, for 25 miles. Upon teardown, saw, not a hint of any pressure/oiling problem, anywhere. Dyno oil, and no, no special oil additive either. In my book, one needs a very special circumstance, to require a HV mod to the oiling system. This is my dime's worth.

 

If the high volume pump only takes 1-2HP to drive (I believe that, by the way) that's HP that has to be generated through the the mesh of the distributor and cam gears which sit 90* apart. That's some more power loss, but that's not why I would care about it. I'll gladly give away a few HP for better oiling and increased reliability. But if you've ever had a distributor or cam gear chewed up, it's no fun at all. Especially a cam gear. Big PITA. Don't get me wrong- I'm not saying this is going to happen all or even most of the time due to a higher-drag pump. But just the thought of the consequences is one of the reasons I try to limit the load of those gears if at all possible.

On a street-driven engine, like the ones I build, that go many miles, get started in 0* weather, etc. the long term effects of the added drag might be worth considering.

That being said, I have run HV pumps enough times that I should have seen a problem related to this. I have not. At least, as far as engines I have built myself and know all the details about the internals. My current 383 motor has a HV pump (it was what Pep Boys had on hand when I was finishing off the motor) and I can't report any problems over the last 2 years. I would think this is, in general, one of those "no big deal" kinda issues. I also can't say I've ever expereinced a HV pump drain the sump dry where a stock pump didn't, but I don't have enough examples and experience to really give an apples-to-apples on that one. I don't rip engines apart just to test oil pumps.

I like stock volume pumps and they have always gotten the job done for me. If you've got full oil pressure by 3000 RPMs then why would you need more oil pump? That's my thinking. Many like the added "security" of a HV pump and the peace-of-mind they feel. More power to them.