I've got a friend who has a very similar setup to me with the exception that I use Hooker LT's (he uses shorty MACs) and hes got a 3.73 rear.

He runs a ZZ3 Cam and is usually a good tenth or maybe more faster than me, He 60's about .05 faster (probally gear related) and traps a good 1 or 2 mph faster. oh and something like 230k miles with just a re-ring (Impressive!) His idles very nice no lope hardly at all and hes managed the below time with a STOCK CHIP!

He has ran 12.42 @ 110mph

I run a LT4 hotcam and have quite a few more small advantages like an electric waterpump, Longtube headers, better exhaust (hes still on a stock catback and flowmaster muffler), I probally did a better job on my heads as well.

I run a 12.52 @ fast 108 slow 109mph

I ran the comparison with desktop dyno and the ZZ3 made around 50 more HP and torque sooner than a LT4 hotcam both with LT4 stock heads.

Am I dreaming?? Can anyone vouch for Desktop Dyno 2000's accuratcy?

 

Desktop Dyno is very simple but it's probably right since on a 350LT1 his average power in the RPM band that he uses is better, the Hot Cam is for a higher up rev range or more cubes.

My guess is it's not 50hp, probably alot less.

Bret

 

Weight could be a factor, too. 50 lbs at your times is about .5 mph and .08 second. If your all-up weight is heavier, there's not much hp difference.

Weight both cars on the same scale, with drivers of course!

The 3.73 vs. 3.42 is about 450 rpm in the traps putting him closer to 5500 and you around 5000 with tires close to stock diameter. Getting closer to the power peak helps.

I agree with SStrokerAce that 50 hp sounds very high.

 

Both cars weight 3600 pounds, and both are auto 93's

I'm going to have to rebuild my motor this summer, (128,000 miles) and I was thinking of ditching the LT4 Hotcam anyway for a cam that makes more torque less lope hopefully better gas mileage.

I think I just may use this cam, That ZZ3 is really really tame. He drove it for a long time on a stock chip with excellent results.

 

I'm really surprised that your two cars, with you guys in the seats weigh exactly the same. 10 gallons of gas (60+ lbs) difference is more than 1/2 a mph. Run with min fuel load and talk you buddy into a full tank. He may beat you to the line, but your mph will be up.

Good luck!

 

its not like hes beat me once,

We used to work together, and racing was huge at our dealership everyone headed out to the track thursday night after work.

His car is consistantly faster than mine, hes about to switch to a LT4 hotcam too. I havn't talked to him in a while

 

What cam timing numbers did you use? Seat to Seat or @.50? Did you use the same on both dyno simulations? I have seen a huge difference between seat to seat and @.50 cam timing numbers on Desktop Dyno.

 

I used the cam files with the program for both

 

Your Desktop Dyno 2000 has cam files for the LT4 Hot cam and the ZZ3 cam? Maybe you have a newer version or something mine doesn't. Mine just has 5 generic cam profiles. If I want to use a specific cam I have to enter all the specs.

 

"CamDisk2" has 3500 cam profiles for dyno2k.

 

yeah it has literally tons of cam files,

Click where it says Cam File for different cam files and

Airflow file for different heads,


mine has ZZ3 ZZ409 E303 tons of summit , comp cams and luniati (sp?)

Its also got vortec, LT4, LT1, LS6 and many many other heads.

 

I did not know that. I will check it out! Thanks.

 

The ZZ3 is a smaller cam in terms of lift and duration. Its not a question of which cam makes more torque, its a question of where the cam makes the torque in the RPM range.

Power is what moves you down the track. Power is a function of torque and RPM, so you can make less torque, but if its at a higher RPM your power output will be more.

I'd stick with the hotcam, since there's no question it makes more HP, just at a higher RPM. Consider a gear change to get you into the Hotcam's powerband. going to the ZZ3 is only going to slow you down.

As far as your car vs his, what kind of 60fts did you both have? .1 in the 60 can make a huge difference in final ET. The Hotcam with longtubes will make more power than the ZZ3, period.

I have DD2K as well and it looks like the specs for the ZZ3 are wrong. ZZ3 is 208/221 duration while the hotcam is 218/228 duration, no question the hotcam is going to make more power if you are willing to spin the engine high enough. According to dd2k the ZZ3 makes 50 more hp at the same RPM, which is impossible simple due to the smaller duration. Both are on a 112 lobe sep.

 

impossible???

That is the purpose of this thread, is bigger always better? I think not!

His car does 60 foot harder than mine but its probally because of the ZZ3 cam + the gear.

I need to rebuild the motor soon and I'm definately going to consider the ZZ3 because

1. more useable effecentcy and torque at lower RPM = Gas mileage (which I need to look into because I'm putting around 280miles a week on the car)


2. The cam has proven to be a touch faster than what I'm using now.

Greater or Equal power plus better gas mileage sounds like a better overall deal.

 

You maybe didn't understand what I was saying. THe ZZ3 is a smaller cam and given the same intake/heads/exhaust will not make as much power as the hotcam.. Same lobe sep but less duration = less HP at a lower RPM. Desktop dyno is wrong, that's what I'm telling you.

Even if they produced the same HP but at different peaks (ZZ3 lower in the RPM range and Hotcam higher), the hotcam would be faster --again, all else being equal-- if you had the right gear to use the power.

You mentioned both cars are 3600 lbs but did you actually weigh them? Only way to really know if one is making more power than the other is to get them on a dyno. You probably also need a good tune. PCM for less is good for the money, but its just a guess. Only way to really tune is on a chassis dyno.

And remember that every car is different, you could have the same exact setup in two cars and they run different numbers by a tenth or two. I just don't want you to jump to the ZZ3 on some assumption that it makes more power and then end up even slower when I think all you need is a gear change and a better tune. If you haven't optimized everything else its too early to go swapping internals.

Now, if you truly want better driveability and street manner, that's a different story, but if you think you'll go faster with the ZZ3 you're probably going to be dissapointed.

a 208/221 cam is simply not going to make as much power as a 218/228 cam if both are on a 112LS and everything else is held equal.

I suggest reading this article:
http://mclements.net/mrc-PowerTorque.html