Well now I'm really depressed considering what I have in a small block.

Is 2k a good price for custom made stainless headers?


I'm going to do a little more homework, and go ahead and get this project started, I can just run my small block until its finished

 

$2K is probably close, but be very sure what the engine wants for headers before you order. IMO, that's one of the last decisions you (actually your engine designer) should make.

 

well there is a local place...I just asked so I could figure it in my budget. I would never order headers custom made. They never fit right.

 

Be of good cheer! You can certainly do a decent BBC drag motor for less by scronging/buying used. Where you don't want to skrimp is the top end, but the Pro 1 has reset the price bar for a decent head a lot lower. Like I said, they are pretty decent right out of the box. You can find BBC stuff on eay or Racing Junk. Bottom ends tend to be way overbuilt.

Here's some approximate prices, and I am NOT very good at scrounging.

Block $1,200 (recovered block out of an old truck, the cost was for machining, 4-bolt steel cap conversion, etc.)
Balancer/flexplate $400
Heads $1,500 (Dart out of the box)
Crank $350 it's a GM forged, NOS piece. (wish I had heald out for a 4.25" stroke but I was in a hurry to put it together).
Pistons/rings/pins $600 (new medium quality SRP pistons)
Rods $350 are new pieces made many years ago by Cola (US, forged) and bought off eBay.
Oil system $300 pan was used, bought from a local guy.
Valvetrain $2,500 this is where you don't want to skrimp
Manifold $300 EFI Super Vic off eBay
Throttle body $700
Accessories $1,500 including timing set (eBay), bearings, valve covers (had them laying around), starter (new), gaskets and fasteners, oil plug (it's EFI), etc.

That's less than $10,000 and so far it has ~150 passes with leakdown 3-6% and good looking bearings. I MAY freshen it up this winter just out of guilt. The oil has beeen changed after every 50 passes or so, out of guilt. A "sportsman" engine turing less than 7,000 rpm does NOT need fancy parts. If a modicum of $$$ is put into the heads and valvetrain, it will make decent power. Decent parts, but not overkill, carefully assembled will go a LONG way.

With a 100hp nitrous shot this motor would do what you want all day long. In fact, I am seriously contemplating a small nitrous shot this year. I won't use the N2O bracket racing, just for screwing around on test-n-tune days.

Rich

 

would a stock block do the job? cause I have a stock 454 from 1978 suburban. I don't know what it is...gen 4 or what?

I can get a dart big M from someone I know for cheap.......I am hoping alot of this stuff I can find locally. Rich your right about being overbuilt in the bottom........ Would mid grade stuff like a callies kit be o.k.?(if I can't find it used)

 

A stock block will hold the power with a steel cap/stud conversion.

The Callies kits will hold that kind of power no problem.

 

That would be a Mk IV, from a '78 Suburban, which is what you want. Max bore is 60-70 over (4.310-4.320"). Go with 60 over first to leave enough meat for another rebuild. It would be more than adequate but it will need work to make it "race ready". Figure on $1-1,500. Biggest question is whether to have the lifter bores indexed. Early Mk IV blocks were never intended to run roller lifters. Consequently, the machining on the lifter bores is not always square to the cam center line like it should be with rollers. Some people don't do it and are fine. The machinist I use is adamant about it and I trust him. He says of you are running a roller with high pressures, it MUST be perpendicular to the cam lobe face or else you are courting early lifter and/or cam failure. Costs ~$500 but it is also a chance to use a larger "Ford" diameter lifter, which is a little stronger. The Callies Compstar stuff would be good to double the hp level we are talking about. Spend the $$$ on the top end!

If you can find a good used motor, that is a lot cheaper than starting from scratch even if a lot needs replacement. "Little" stuff can quickly add up and bust the budget.

Rich

 

My machinist told me friday he just wrote a program for his cnc, it squares the lifter bore an he machines liners etc. to run a longer style lifter for a ford. He said the chevy is short and not stable at hi lift? sound right?

The used stuff I am looking at is only bits and pcs. they are reusing alot of it to go in a new motor, they use alot of nitrous so they are keeping pistons/crank/rods intake and all valve train and heads.

I will look for used motors also, would the 454 I have support a 4.500 bore? probly not..... Also can you run the piston to wall clearance loose in something like this? I'm running my small blcok a little loose

 

No, 4.310" or 4.320" is max bore on 99% of stock blocks. Those are often called 60 and 70 over.

Rich

 

The piston to wall will be determined by the piston manufacturer, operating temp that you run at, use of power adders, etc. - Let your machinist set that one up for you.

 

I just did a 454 with the Pro 1 heads cnc and hand flowed. Dart intake also flowed with 1" spacer. I'm running on pump gas and made 739.9 HP. I went with the ford base circle on the cam and 426 Hemi lifters to allow more durration. Did do the lifter bores. Lunati crank, Manley rods and ross pistons. You can find some pics in my sig.

 

This is why building big blocks is a waste of time....

http://www.steveschmidtracing.com/en...sportsman.html
http://www.steveschmidtracing.com/en...sportsman.html

Smurf's motors are awesome pieces for the money, especially these "crate" motors. At that price I wouldn't even build it myself. IMHO that is one of the best deals out there.

Unless you are shooting to rule some class not just a running number or bracket racing building the things yourself or locally is not that good of an idea. This and the architecture of a BBC induction system are just some of the reasons why I HATE BBC's. I'm not immune from them though, but odd ball deals like doing a buildup of a aluminum 482 street BBC or working on 468 Super Mod and DIRT BB Modifieds starts to become interesting because they are head to head competition where the motor can make a difference.

Now if you DO want to build up a motor yourself, getting a short block from Schimdt or RMRE and then getting someone to help you with a induction and valvetrain package is another idea. That is if you are looking for more than what they give you in their combinations. Even then it's not as cost effective.

Bret

 

I see way to many people get burned on crate motors to ever recommend buying one.

 

me too.....even a few big inch big names.

 

I do also really want to build it myself.....not so much for money reasons but its a hobby and I enjoy doing it.....plus if I stay busy it keeps me away from hookers and booze


The schmidt motors run good.....but all crate motors can have problems. Just saw one a few weeks ago that did not hav any end play in the cam on wore some stuff out quick....It was a schmidt motor.

I have seen fultons, RM, sonny's, musi....all of them, If you have a big name in racing I'm sure you get alot better product then some joe blow like me ordering one