I have a problem I can't figure out
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 126
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiQVZbZ2eZc
Here is a vid. so you can see what it is doing. It is not moving at the big end. I think we have found the problem but you can take a look and see. We were having problems with the trans pushing oil and you will hear them say something about it but that is fixed and still running the same times...
Buck
Here is a vid. so you can see what it is doing. It is not moving at the big end. I think we have found the problem but you can take a look and see. We were having problems with the trans pushing oil and you will hear them say something about it but that is fixed and still running the same times...
Buck
Thread Starter
Banned
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,970
From: Goochland, Va.
The cam was on a 106 icl. I do not have the card but I think it was supposed to be on a 103.
I will check tommorow and I tore the engine down(for no reason, everything look o.k.) I want to see if this cam could be an issue, If I need to I will get another one this week. If that won't fix it I sell the whole damn thing and get something else
I will check tommorow and I tore the engine down(for no reason, everything look o.k.) I want to see if this cam could be an issue, If I need to I will get another one this week. If that won't fix it I sell the whole damn thing and get something else
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 230
From: Waterloo, Iowa
17% is beyond excessive slippage, you should be seeing 6-8%, 10% at worst.
That could be caused by combination problem too. I went from running mid 10's with my smaller Bullet Racing cam to 10.80's with this POS comp cam junk i vowed i'd never install in a motor...and this cam is bigger, and engine dyno dyck somehow had it making 636hp/600tq as opposed to old motor making 600hp/570tq to which given weight of my car was right.
I would give serious look at timing first and foremost since it's easiest to look at. I had a dizzy go bad with my first 388cid, off the trialer it was running 12.00 like a zerox machine, but slower than i had ever expected. Stabbed a brand new dizzy in after finding alot wrong with what i had, 11.20's off the trailer with no other change...timing is THAT dramatic. I had an issue this year again and i lost .4, found what it was and got right back to 10.80's that next pass and same mph. So what i'm saying, timing issues cause huuuge problems and can also mask itself as many other problems.
Another issue, is combination, maybe that cam spec is not right for application? maybe it should be ground on a 108-110LSA instead of the 106. This is what alot of guys are telling me with mine and why mines so focking slow too compared to where it used to be. First Bullet Cam Bullet speced for me was on a 108*LSA, this Comp pos is on a 106, so right now heads want to flow up here in the rpm band, cam wants to flow down low in the rpm band, gears what to keep eveythign in the middle. I keep saying i am going to buy another cam from Bullet and get this Comp in the trash as fast as possible, but i'm so sick of working on it, spending money from last year i'm running dog assed slow, not fun, but i cant complain as i've picked up checks at 8 of 10 events ran this season.
That could be caused by combination problem too. I went from running mid 10's with my smaller Bullet Racing cam to 10.80's with this POS comp cam junk i vowed i'd never install in a motor...and this cam is bigger, and engine dyno dyck somehow had it making 636hp/600tq as opposed to old motor making 600hp/570tq to which given weight of my car was right.
I would give serious look at timing first and foremost since it's easiest to look at. I had a dizzy go bad with my first 388cid, off the trialer it was running 12.00 like a zerox machine, but slower than i had ever expected. Stabbed a brand new dizzy in after finding alot wrong with what i had, 11.20's off the trailer with no other change...timing is THAT dramatic. I had an issue this year again and i lost .4, found what it was and got right back to 10.80's that next pass and same mph. So what i'm saying, timing issues cause huuuge problems and can also mask itself as many other problems.
Another issue, is combination, maybe that cam spec is not right for application? maybe it should be ground on a 108-110LSA instead of the 106. This is what alot of guys are telling me with mine and why mines so focking slow too compared to where it used to be. First Bullet Cam Bullet speced for me was on a 108*LSA, this Comp pos is on a 106, so right now heads want to flow up here in the rpm band, cam wants to flow down low in the rpm band, gears what to keep eveythign in the middle. I keep saying i am going to buy another cam from Bullet and get this Comp in the trash as fast as possible, but i'm so sick of working on it, spending money from last year i'm running dog assed slow, not fun, but i cant complain as i've picked up checks at 8 of 10 events ran this season.
Thread Starter
Banned
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,970
From: Goochland, Va.
I think its in the cam......
I just can't see all the converters being bad.
Is it possible if the cam timing is off it would lose a huge amount of power?
I have check the timing over and over and just don't see a problem anywhere with it....its advancing like it should and is in sync with the DFI.....no popping or anything...I just can't see it being in the timing/ignition. I feel its more in the cam timing, or the cam is too retarded, it still "cams" up to about 4500 or more before it clears out.
Its out now so I hope to find out something this week and run next week. If not I got another car to run but I want this one fixed.
I just can't see all the converters being bad.
Is it possible if the cam timing is off it would lose a huge amount of power?
I have check the timing over and over and just don't see a problem anywhere with it....its advancing like it should and is in sync with the DFI.....no popping or anything...I just can't see it being in the timing/ignition. I feel its more in the cam timing, or the cam is too retarded, it still "cams" up to about 4500 or more before it clears out.
Its out now so I hope to find out something this week and run next week. If not I got another car to run but I want this one fixed.
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,517
From: Engineerland
Are you running an air filter on it? how are the air/fuel ratios as you go down the track, on both sides.
You could still rpm fine and just have a weak or dead cyl or poor combustion from weak spark. I dont know about camming all the way up to 4500 that sounds like something is broke to me (dead cyl).
If you have a new cam put in, have it ground on a wider lsa you have the compression for it easy.
Have you tried overfilling the trans any? Sometimes with a deep pan and the wrong filter you can have trouble also. At its most basic even an auto tranny is a clutch, without any apply pressure it cannot do its job 17% slip is pretty sad.
You could still rpm fine and just have a weak or dead cyl or poor combustion from weak spark. I dont know about camming all the way up to 4500 that sounds like something is broke to me (dead cyl).
If you have a new cam put in, have it ground on a wider lsa you have the compression for it easy.
Have you tried overfilling the trans any? Sometimes with a deep pan and the wrong filter you can have trouble also. At its most basic even an auto tranny is a clutch, without any apply pressure it cannot do its job 17% slip is pretty sad.
Thread Starter
Banned
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,970
From: Goochland, Va.
Are you running an air filter on it? how are the air/fuel ratios as you go down the track, on both sides.
You could still rpm fine and just have a weak or dead cyl or poor combustion from weak spark. I dont know about camming all the way up to 4500 that sounds like something is broke to me (dead cyl).
If you have a new cam put in, have it ground on a wider lsa you have the compression for it easy.
Have you tried overfilling the trans any? Sometimes with a deep pan and the wrong filter you can have trouble also. At its most basic even an auto tranny is a clutch, without any apply pressure it cannot do its job 17% slip is pretty sad.
You could still rpm fine and just have a weak or dead cyl or poor combustion from weak spark. I dont know about camming all the way up to 4500 that sounds like something is broke to me (dead cyl).
If you have a new cam put in, have it ground on a wider lsa you have the compression for it easy.
Have you tried overfilling the trans any? Sometimes with a deep pan and the wrong filter you can have trouble also. At its most basic even an auto tranny is a clutch, without any apply pressure it cannot do its job 17% slip is pretty sad.
1 dead cyl would lose that much power? cyl leakdown test is good. compresion is good. wires, coil, msd etc. is all new and seems to be in good working order as I tested it all before.
Only thing about the trans is the fluid is like new and not burnt or anything. If it was slipping then you would smell or see clutch in the fluid. I even tore down the one I thought was slipping and everything air checks good and the clutches/steels look like new. That one had all alto clutches and the one I have now is raybestos blues....I drained the fluid and it looks like it did when I put it in. Its a stock trans pan and a madman dipstick....so it reads the same as a stock one, I have measured it previously when I thought it was slipping.
My question right now is could the engine spin up that high and not make any power if the camshaft was off? My tach could be wrong too......
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,517
From: Engineerland
Well if you make 500hp one dead hole is going to cost you 63hp or so. Puts you down about 12.5% on power. Do the plugs look good when you pull them after a run? Not wet or sooty?
Is the throttle opening 100% have you checked while somebody else held it to the floor. Thats about all I can think of if everything else checks out, you just arent moving the air. Which is pretty hard for me to believe with who did the heads.
I dont think your cam will kill you on hp that much, its not too far out of line for what you have running. I have run cams as big as 288* in 383's in small tire cars but they were running about 1000rpm over what you do.
Let me ask you this when you leave the line does the tach hang around the stall speed for about a second or so before it picks up. This usually happens with higher stall cars until the car catches up with the engine speed. Might give some insight into whats up.
I still wanna see a breakdown of a run.
Is the throttle opening 100% have you checked while somebody else held it to the floor. Thats about all I can think of if everything else checks out, you just arent moving the air. Which is pretty hard for me to believe with who did the heads.
I dont think your cam will kill you on hp that much, its not too far out of line for what you have running. I have run cams as big as 288* in 383's in small tire cars but they were running about 1000rpm over what you do.
Let me ask you this when you leave the line does the tach hang around the stall speed for about a second or so before it picks up. This usually happens with higher stall cars until the car catches up with the engine speed. Might give some insight into whats up.
I still wanna see a breakdown of a run.
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 230
From: Waterloo, Iowa
MD- seriously, 17% convertor slippage is waaaaay to loose/sloppey and is why your seeing such huge rpm at the stripe and such slow mph in relationship to it.
Aside from timing, induction could play into it too. My junk this season was running low 11's, not good at all. I put a new 4.56 gear in since i had 16% convertor slip and figured the taller back tire killed me. Car still running dog slow and 60'ing slower than it did at the end of last year...something was'nt adding up. Locked distributor out to eliminate timing jump from the equation, still ran like azz. Borrowed a know working carb a few months back, boom, problem solved, ET picked up huge, 60's dropped big time, mph was lacking due to steeper gearing and i was know trapping 7400...as opposed to the 6600 I'm at now with my Pro System rebuilt carb and old 4.11 gear back in it.
I would try a different cam for no more than they cost, esspecially if ya got the engine out, the specs seem off a bit to me, but i' not a cam grinder and am just basing thoughts off the guys i run with with similar combo's. But i would still give serious look into induction/timing since what your describing work hand in hand with the poor performance your having, and would cause excessie convertor slip too since it's laboring too much to get the car going.
Aside from timing, induction could play into it too. My junk this season was running low 11's, not good at all. I put a new 4.56 gear in since i had 16% convertor slip and figured the taller back tire killed me. Car still running dog slow and 60'ing slower than it did at the end of last year...something was'nt adding up. Locked distributor out to eliminate timing jump from the equation, still ran like azz. Borrowed a know working carb a few months back, boom, problem solved, ET picked up huge, 60's dropped big time, mph was lacking due to steeper gearing and i was know trapping 7400...as opposed to the 6600 I'm at now with my Pro System rebuilt carb and old 4.11 gear back in it.
I would try a different cam for no more than they cost, esspecially if ya got the engine out, the specs seem off a bit to me, but i' not a cam grinder and am just basing thoughts off the guys i run with with similar combo's. But i would still give serious look into induction/timing since what your describing work hand in hand with the poor performance your having, and would cause excessie convertor slip too since it's laboring too much to get the car going.
Thread Starter
Banned
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,970
From: Goochland, Va.
6-14-08 9.5" converter 5500
,027 rt
1.695 60'
4.96 330
7.71 660
88.98
10.117 1000
12.158 1320
112.37
6-21-08 8" ATI 5500
.0349 rt
1.7372 60'
5.0016 330
7.73 660
90.14
I can't find the tickets from the videos, but the second pass was a 1.52 60' and I think 11.69 at 113, I can't see. The last pass was 11.89 on the brakes....
,027 rt
1.695 60'
4.96 330
7.71 660
88.98
10.117 1000
12.158 1320
112.37
6-21-08 8" ATI 5500
.0349 rt
1.7372 60'
5.0016 330
7.73 660
90.14
I can't find the tickets from the videos, but the second pass was a 1.52 60' and I think 11.69 at 113, I can't see. The last pass was 11.89 on the brakes....
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Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 10,745
From: Buffalo, New York
The motor is turning the rpm and the mph isn't there, so it is the converter or the trans. Which one is of course the question. It is really hard to tell. If you can get the tranny apart yourself, I'd start there. If not, they each need to go back to who put them together. They may both come back with you being told "nothing wrong" but magically they will work. go figure.
Rich
Rich
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Joined: Oct 1998
Posts: 3,144
From: Jackstandican
Thread Starter
Banned
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,970
From: Goochland, Va.
feels like it hitting on all 8 to me. Once you wind it out its nice and smooth....just weak as ****, might as well be driving a stock one.
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 4,800
Last fall one trip to the track the car felt "soft", still ran 12.4 but especially the launch was just weak. Popped a header gasket that day. Well when I got home I found one header port on each side looked different numbers 2 and 7, number 7 had a white spot and cracking in the plug wire, and number 2 had this plug. http://s120.photobucket.com/albums/o...t=DCP_0544.jpg
Had someone else drive the car that day even, someone WAY more experianced than I, neither of us felt a miss. Felt a whole lot better after fresh plugs and one new wire though.
Point being sometimes ignition issues can be a bit less obvious than we usually find. I was floored when I found those problems, and amazed the car ran as smooth as it was.
Had someone else drive the car that day even, someone WAY more experianced than I, neither of us felt a miss. Felt a whole lot better after fresh plugs and one new wire though.
Point being sometimes ignition issues can be a bit less obvious than we usually find. I was floored when I found those problems, and amazed the car ran as smooth as it was.