Howards powder metal rods, stronger than 4340
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Joined: Oct 2002
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Yeah I know I looked at a '83 Camaro today for SCCA A-Sedan. Still a $1000 pile needs $20K to win anything, plus I have to spend $5K more on driving school. Done some but not enough to be happy with it. Then I just end up racing a 305 with stock heads and 380hp, what fun is that?
Why is racing so dam expensive?
Bret
Why is racing so dam expensive?
Bret
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Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 1,445
From: Seattle, WA
Found an initial price on 'em: http://www.mpif.org/industry/dec03news.html
Not bad I suppose, especially considering the weight of the rods... but Pro Mods sound like a better option at this stage of the game (cost wise). If the cost's a bit lower and the weight looks real good I may pick up a a set next year in the engine build... but as it is they need to produce some big numbers if they want more support. It's not a question of "if it works as well", but whether "it works better" for the same price. No point in going with an equal product if others have the same claims AND a track record to back it up. Just personal risk-analysis really. 
P/M Industry News
MPIF HOME PAGE Past News Stories Press Releases
Here is the latest P/M industry news as of December 22, 2003. More complete reports will be published in upcoming issues of the International Journal of Powder Metallurgy. For further information about the following news items contact the Metal Powder Industries Federation (MPIF) at 609 452-7700; fax 609 987-8523; e-mail info@mpif.org.
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Monday, December 22, 2003
Aftermarket Con Rod
Car racing products firm offers powder-forged (P/F) connecting rods next year.
Howards Cams & Racing Components (HCR), Oshkosh, WI, will sell high-performance P/F con rods made by GKN Sinter Metals, Auburn Hills, MI. The rods should be available for aftermarket sales by the end of the first quarter of 2004. The first design will be a small-block Chevrolet 6.0-inch rod, which can be expanded to other applications. HCR sells to enthusiasts in oval racing, drag racing, and tractor pulling, as well as to owners of street rods and off-road vehicles. GKN is also eyeing marine, industrial, and endurance applications. HCR expects to market the rods in a set, retailing for about $600.
MPIF HOME PAGE Past News Stories Press Releases
Here is the latest P/M industry news as of December 22, 2003. More complete reports will be published in upcoming issues of the International Journal of Powder Metallurgy. For further information about the following news items contact the Metal Powder Industries Federation (MPIF) at 609 452-7700; fax 609 987-8523; e-mail info@mpif.org.
Subscribe to P/M Newsbytes to receive the latest breaking news. To subscribe or unsubscribe send an e-mail with your complete name, mailing address & e-mail address to newsbytes@mpif.org.
Monday, December 22, 2003
Aftermarket Con Rod
Car racing products firm offers powder-forged (P/F) connecting rods next year.
Howards Cams & Racing Components (HCR), Oshkosh, WI, will sell high-performance P/F con rods made by GKN Sinter Metals, Auburn Hills, MI. The rods should be available for aftermarket sales by the end of the first quarter of 2004. The first design will be a small-block Chevrolet 6.0-inch rod, which can be expanded to other applications. HCR sells to enthusiasts in oval racing, drag racing, and tractor pulling, as well as to owners of street rods and off-road vehicles. GKN is also eyeing marine, industrial, and endurance applications. HCR expects to market the rods in a set, retailing for about $600.
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 6,518
Originally posted by Steve in Seattle
Not bad I suppose, especially considering the weight of the rods... but Pro Mods sound like a better option at this stage of the game (cost wise). If the cost's a bit lower and the weight looks real good I may pick up a a set next year in the engine build... but as it is they need to produce some big numbers if they want more support. It's not a question of "if it works as well", but whether "it works better" for the same price. No point in going with an equal product if others have the same claims AND a track record to back it up. Just personal risk-analysis really.
Not bad I suppose, especially considering the weight of the rods... but Pro Mods sound like a better option at this stage of the game (cost wise). If the cost's a bit lower and the weight looks real good I may pick up a a set next year in the engine build... but as it is they need to produce some big numbers if they want more support. It's not a question of "if it works as well", but whether "it works better" for the same price. No point in going with an equal product if others have the same claims AND a track record to back it up. Just personal risk-analysis really.
Actually leads to this.....
As a customer do you care how well the motor performs and lasts or do you really give a rats *** about every little part in the thing? I'm betting that Sonny Lenord and Jon Kaase don't tell you dick about the motor that goes in the IHRA Pro Stock cars that run them other than Yeah it's a Chevy/Ford and it's 810 cubes.
Bret
Last edited by SStrokerAce; Jun 29, 2004 at 11:02 PM.
Banned
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,661
From: LA (lower Alabama)
Bret,
Is GM running the PP rods in the C5R yet?
If you bring your checkbook when you talk to John to pick up your engine,he will tell you all about it.
Is GM running the PP rods in the C5R yet?
If you bring your checkbook when you talk to John to pick up your engine,he will tell you all about it.
Last edited by 1racerdude; Jun 29, 2004 at 11:04 PM.
Registered User
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Posts: 1,445
From: Seattle, WA
yeah, what they need to do is start some name-dropping by cut-rate supplies to tuners that can get their stuff in mainstream media like Car&Driver and such. Wouldn't hurt to sponser the Engine Master's Challenge or some sprint-car teams.
They'd get some crazy attention if they earned some "street cred" right out of the gate.
Of course this comes down to finding racers and engine builders open to such a new technology (or at least new in a high-performance application
).
They'd get some crazy attention if they earned some "street cred" right out of the gate.
Of course this comes down to finding racers and engine builders open to such a new technology (or at least new in a high-performance application
).
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Originally posted by 1racerdude
Bret,
Is GM running the PP rods in the C5R yet?
Bret,
Is GM running the PP rods in the C5R yet?
Bret
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 6,518
Originally posted by Steve in Seattle
yeah, what they need to do is start some name-dropping by cut-rate supplies to tuners that can get their stuff in mainstream media like Car&Driver and such. Wouldn't hurt to sponser the Engine Master's Challenge or some sprint-car teams.
They'd get some crazy attention if they earned some "street cred" right out of the gate.
Of course this comes down to finding racers and engine builders open to such a new technology (or at least new in a high-performance application).
yeah, what they need to do is start some name-dropping by cut-rate supplies to tuners that can get their stuff in mainstream media like Car&Driver and such. Wouldn't hurt to sponser the Engine Master's Challenge or some sprint-car teams.
They'd get some crazy attention if they earned some "street cred" right out of the gate.
Of course this comes down to finding racers and engine builders open to such a new technology (or at least new in a high-performance application
).
Even then look at beehive springs, Comp has more articles on those things and what do you get, nothing but people questioning those things. Believe me I hear it all the time.
bret
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 1,445
From: Seattle, WA
Originally posted by SStrokerAce
I'm betting that Sonny Lenord and Jon Kaase don't tell you dick about the motor that goes in the IHRA Pro Stock cars that run them other than Yeah it's a Chevy/Ford and it's 810 cubes.
I'm betting that Sonny Lenord and Jon Kaase don't tell you dick about the motor that goes in the IHRA Pro Stock cars that run them other than Yeah it's a Chevy/Ford and it's 810 cubes.
Only problem is, until someone uses them openly, the stigma will remain that "forged is second only to billet" (and that's debatable as well).
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 6,518
Originally posted by Steve in Seattle
"forged is second only to billet" (and that's debatable as well).
"forged is second only to billet" (and that's debatable as well).
Aren't Con Rods FUN!
What still impresses me is the busted rod table at Oliver during PRI. Those things look like abstract art, and you wonder how guys break them, or bend them.
Bret
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,661
From: LA (lower Alabama)
When the General puts them in their showpiece race cars and proves them I will probably take another look.
Just to much money involved in a good build these days to go with other than what you know will get the job done.
Just to much money involved in a good build these days to go with other than what you know will get the job done.
West South Central Moderator
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,371
From: Kilgore TX 75662
Originally posted by SStrokerAce
...The other design point of the PPF rods is the cracked cap setup. No need for dowels to line up the caps, there is going to be EXTREMELY good cap to rod contact with the cracked cap design with no cap walk. Almost wish you could make main caps this way.
...The other design point of the PPF rods is the cracked cap setup. No need for dowels to line up the caps, there is going to be EXTREMELY good cap to rod contact with the cracked cap design with no cap walk. Almost wish you could make main caps this way.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,985
From: In a house by the bay
"Compressed graphite"
Ever broke a pencil lead? Hell, I have to resort to a Big Chief just to keep them alive.
Dunno, but I think graphite would be a little too brittle to make a good connecting rod. I aint no materials guy though.
WRT Customer acceptance, time will tell. They have thier cash cow with the OEM, so they have plenty of time to get their product in the hands of performance engine builders. I have been very content to sit back and watch people try new things. Just a hobby for me so I have that luxury.
On that note... has anyone else noticed that Howards is actually advertising now? I think those boys finally woke up and smelled the money cause they are actually putting advertisements in the magazines now.
You mention Howards to anyone two years ago and they'd just ask, "Who's that?". Good for them, they have a great line of products... secret's gonna be out of the bag now.
-Mindgame
Ever broke a pencil lead? Hell, I have to resort to a Big Chief just to keep them alive.
Dunno, but I think graphite would be a little too brittle to make a good connecting rod. I aint no materials guy though.
WRT Customer acceptance, time will tell. They have thier cash cow with the OEM, so they have plenty of time to get their product in the hands of performance engine builders. I have been very content to sit back and watch people try new things. Just a hobby for me so I have that luxury.
On that note... has anyone else noticed that Howards is actually advertising now? I think those boys finally woke up and smelled the money cause they are actually putting advertisements in the magazines now.
You mention Howards to anyone two years ago and they'd just ask, "Who's that?". Good for them, they have a great line of products... secret's gonna be out of the bag now.
-Mindgame
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,985
From: In a house by the bay
Originally posted by SStrokerAce
The other thing that is really impressive about the design on the PPF rods is the Finite Element Analysis. Only rods that I know of that have this are $1200 Oliver Billets. One reason why the rods are so strong for the mass is the design. I’ve seen some studies on H beams vs. I beams like Oliver’s and the shape is one reason they are so dam good.
The other thing that is really impressive about the design on the PPF rods is the Finite Element Analysis. Only rods that I know of that have this are $1200 Oliver Billets. One reason why the rods are so strong for the mass is the design. I’ve seen some studies on H beams vs. I beams like Oliver’s and the shape is one reason they are so dam good.
Everyone's going to 3d CAD modeling these days. Just streamlines the manufacturing process, especially when you can keep it all under one roof.
-Mindgame
West South Central Moderator
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,371
From: Kilgore TX 75662
Originally posted by Mindgame
"Compressed graphite"
Ever broke a pencil lead? Hell, I have to resort to a Big Chief just to keep them alive.
Dunno, but I think graphite would be a little too brittle to make a good connecting rod. I aint no materials guy though.
"Compressed graphite"
Ever broke a pencil lead? Hell, I have to resort to a Big Chief just to keep them alive.
Dunno, but I think graphite would be a little too brittle to make a good connecting rod. I aint no materials guy though.
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 6,518
Originally posted by 1racerdude
When the General puts them in their showpiece race cars and proves them I will probably take another look.
When the General puts them in their showpiece race cars and proves them I will probably take another look.
I suspsect that Howard's has put a ton of money into this project so I would expect that they did it the right way or it's going to be a big bust financially.
Bret