I have heard that many companies are misleading because they are saying that you are buying heat treated parts but many are not.. Is there away or somewhere that you could send your pistons and your crank and rods and they could treat them and make them stronger?

 

Heat treating is a process that helps change the metal to give it different properties.... Old SStroker will find you something good to read on this. It's the the answer you are looking for.

In fact if you just sent your pistons and rods to get "heat treated" you would have to remachine every surface on them to run them.

Bret

 

There may be companies claiming they are selling "heat treated" parts when they are not, but that could probably be fairly easily checked. Remember not all "heat treated" parts are super hard. Some are just "toughened" by thermal treatment.

Pistons are made from aluminum which is usually heat treated after forging, before machining. They definitely aren't super hard. You aren't going to help them trying more heat treating after machining.

Cranks may have different heat treatments depending on the material. 4340cranks may be thru hardened for strength somewhere during the manufacturing and they may or may not be nitrided on the journals which is a fairly thin layer of hardness on the surface.

4340 (aka Nickle-Chrome-Molybdenum alloy steel) Rods are generally thru hardened like cranks.

Heat Treating is not the silver bullet which can turn a cheap, weak part into a strong part. If you buy strong, forged parts from the better manufacturers, the proper heat treating will have been done during manufacture.

Some non-heat treated parts are very strong as you buy them. Stock LS1 cast cranks are not nitrided (surface hardened), but they are pretty rugged. I wouldn't nitride one, I'd just use it as is, even after regrinding the journals.

As 'Ace said, most heat treating distorts the parts and requires remachining; not the thing you want to do to a finished part. Some nitriding procedures are an exception to this.

Just for my information, '57, what kind of parts have you seen sold as "heat treated" which weren't? Nothing comes quickly to my mind...but that could be my age. (OTD)

 

So that is that... What about cryogenic freezing like nascar does... Can that be done later?

 

You ought to look into this:

http://www.mikronite.com/overview.asp

 

Just do a search on cryo with OldSStrokers posts... you will find that's pretty much bunk as well.

Just so you know

THERE IS NO MAGIC BULLET!

Bret

 

But I really want "The Magic Bullet"

 

I'm still working on the adamantium crank guys....i'll let you know when I get one

 

Those are out of stock, but I hear that you can now finally get unobtanium.

Rich

 

Yeah I saw an ad for that. They had to change the name to "nowobtanium"

 

Truth in advertising?

Rich

 

It should also be pointed out that not all "heat treating" is equal. Compare the process that a cheap crank goes through vs. an american forging. Chinese(Eagle) cranks cut like butter because they are not put through the multi-step treatment process that superior cranks like Crower's and Bryants are. Not all 4340 cranks are equal not even counting the ****-poor tolerances on the imported parts...

 

I believe the current "proper" process for hardening (concerning steel cranks and rods) is called PGN - Plasma Gas Nitrite. I have been told that this is not a super common practice in the industry, but is the only way to get surface hardening deep enough for serviceable parts. - This may be an old deal as I am no so much of a "bottom end" man as a "induction" guy.

Oldsstroker - I was told about 12 or so years ago, that a popular piston company was forging their pistons close to tolerance, then heat treating. It was rumored that only ~30% of their stock was marketable due to distortion during the heat treat process.

Considering cryo, bio-freeze, anything to do with thermal stress...SAVE YOUR MONEY! Spent to much time, and WAY too much money on junk ice-pops.

Dennis

 

Plasma nitriding, or ion nitriding is described here:

http://www.plasmaindia.com/plasmanitriding.html

It's a good process if you need it. If I thought it necessary on engine parts I would be shopping for those parts from a manufacturer who provided it as part of his product.


"junk ice-pops" made me laugh. Cryo has its places, but even though it is often hyped as the Silver Bullet by its proponents (or providers), it ain't!

 

Here's a photo of a batch of cranks being Ion Nitrided.
http://www.masnart.com/misc/ion_nitiride.htm

Induction Hardening is very desirable because it can be localized with optimum depth and hardness.
http://www.callies.com/manufacturing...ngineering.htm