Ford has a better idea - 5.4L Triton
02-21-2009, 02:30 PM
#1
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Ford has a better idea - 5.4L Triton
I must be living under a rock. Maybe everyone else has heard this, but I though I'd share it to try and stoke up the activity on the forum.
I drive an '05 F-150 with the 5.4L Triton engine - its a "company" vehicle, uplevel interior, crew cab, lots of amenities, strobes, overhead lights, unlimited fleet card, etc.. Our shop said since the mileage was approaching 90K, the truck needed to go into the local Ford dealer for new plugs. Odd.... our state-of-the-art company shop that can tear down any kind of construction equipment and repair it, is afraid of a Ford V8.
Take the truck to the local Ford dealer, and the service writer explains the problem, and shows me a spark plug that look like nothing I have ever seen before. Its a regular plug, with a 1.5" extension below the threads that extends the electrodes into the combustion chamber. When they try to remove the plugs on high mileage vehicles (recommended service is 100K miles), the extension sometimes breaks off in the head, causing a "problem". Only one of mine broke of. The "tune up" was $888.
I research this on the 'net, and find out this engine (SOHC, 3-valve/cyl) is considered one of the worst designs ever - even though a magazine named it one of the 10-best engines in the world. In addition to the plugs breaking off in the head, in the early years they are also know to blow out the plug, and the C-O-P sitting on top of the plug damages the fuel rail. There is a thriving industry in tools deisgned to extract the broken off parts from the head without having to pull the head off the engine.
http://www.ford-trucks.com/tsb/fullt...php?tsb=06-5-9
I drive an '05 F-150 with the 5.4L Triton engine - its a "company" vehicle, uplevel interior, crew cab, lots of amenities, strobes, overhead lights, unlimited fleet card, etc.. Our shop said since the mileage was approaching 90K, the truck needed to go into the local Ford dealer for new plugs. Odd.... our state-of-the-art company shop that can tear down any kind of construction equipment and repair it, is afraid of a Ford V8.
Take the truck to the local Ford dealer, and the service writer explains the problem, and shows me a spark plug that look like nothing I have ever seen before. Its a regular plug, with a 1.5" extension below the threads that extends the electrodes into the combustion chamber. When they try to remove the plugs on high mileage vehicles (recommended service is 100K miles), the extension sometimes breaks off in the head, causing a "problem". Only one of mine broke of. The "tune up" was $888.
I research this on the 'net, and find out this engine (SOHC, 3-valve/cyl) is considered one of the worst designs ever - even though a magazine named it one of the 10-best engines in the world. In addition to the plugs breaking off in the head, in the early years they are also know to blow out the plug, and the C-O-P sitting on top of the plug damages the fuel rail. There is a thriving industry in tools deisgned to extract the broken off parts from the head without having to pull the head off the engine.
http://www.ford-trucks.com/tsb/fullt...php?tsb=06-5-9
Last edited by Injuneer; 02-21-2009 at 11:32 PM.
02-21-2009, 03:31 PM
#3
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Join Date: Feb 2003
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Ditto. the only domestic manufacturer that I know of that is such a PITA. I remember changing plugs once on a buddy's 4 cyl ranger, and it had 8 plugs! Every single one of them was a pain to get to.
On a side note, is everyone else bothered as much as me on how GM gets dogged so much about their "dinosaur era" engines? People always seem to find ways to complain because GM uses pushrods, or their engines don't sound "refined" WTF is that? Do you take a refined engine out to tea? It also seems to me that with all of this new "technology" and don't get me wrong, I'm as nerdy as the next guy, aren't we backsliding? I've been looking at a new vehicle, the G8 in particular to replace my Park Avenue. Here's where the problem lies. The Park Ave is heavier, larger all around, gives up 21 hp to the G8, has 240K on it, and I can still pull down 28-30 mpg with a 4 speed auto. The best that I am hearing with the G8 is 26-26 mpg. The 3800 is by no means a "refined" engine, but with the comments that I hear about the noises that the 3.6 makes, is it truly any better?
Sorry about the soapbox, but thinking about what For and others (Chrysler-16 spark plugs in the hemi??) are doing, are they over thinking things?
On a side note, is everyone else bothered as much as me on how GM gets dogged so much about their "dinosaur era" engines? People always seem to find ways to complain because GM uses pushrods, or their engines don't sound "refined" WTF is that? Do you take a refined engine out to tea? It also seems to me that with all of this new "technology" and don't get me wrong, I'm as nerdy as the next guy, aren't we backsliding? I've been looking at a new vehicle, the G8 in particular to replace my Park Avenue. Here's where the problem lies. The Park Ave is heavier, larger all around, gives up 21 hp to the G8, has 240K on it, and I can still pull down 28-30 mpg with a 4 speed auto. The best that I am hearing with the G8 is 26-26 mpg. The 3800 is by no means a "refined" engine, but with the comments that I hear about the noises that the 3.6 makes, is it truly any better?
Sorry about the soapbox, but thinking about what For and others (Chrysler-16 spark plugs in the hemi??) are doing, are they over thinking things?
02-21-2009, 06:28 PM
#4
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Location: Wichita KS
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[QUOTE=hairbear21;5847293]The Park Ave is heavier, larger all around, gives up 21 hp to the G8, has 240K on it, and I can still pull down 28-30 mpg with a 4 speed auto. The best that I am hearing with the G8 is 26-26 mpg. The 3800 is by no means a "refined" engine, but with the comments that I hear about the noises that the 3.6 makes, is it truly any better?
QUOTE]
I love my 3800sc!
QUOTE]
I love my 3800sc!
02-21-2009, 11:35 PM
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I was semi-impressed that Ford had developed a "modular" family of engines.... but I never really knew what parts were modular. A bit of searching on the 'net, and it turns out there are no modular features to the family of engines. They are called modular engines because that are built in an engine plant named "Modular". 
02-22-2009, 09:43 AM
#6
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Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 570
i never knew that! Leave it to Ford to think of something witty like that though. You can't expect much when they design the oil filter on the 5.4 for pickups to be exposed to flying debris from the tires I guess.
02-23-2009, 01:24 PM
#8
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Location: St Charles MO, USA
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i had a 99 mustang that shot the plug out of the head.
just driving it normally and started hearing a tick... by the time i pulled over it went from a tick to a loud banging under the hood. coil was broken off, and the plug wires and plug were both upside sticking out.
had a friend of a friend helicoil it. he worked for ford and said this is very common on the trucks.
pissed me off 4 months down the road the next cylinder did it. ended up replacing the head and selling the car.
sad thing is i drove it like an old lady... just poor disign the spark plugs only screw in like 3 threads then its bottomed out.
damn i should of broke the fuel rail and then burned the car to the ground for insurance money. would of saved me from having to spend a few nights replacing the head.
just driving it normally and started hearing a tick... by the time i pulled over it went from a tick to a loud banging under the hood. coil was broken off, and the plug wires and plug were both upside sticking out.
had a friend of a friend helicoil it. he worked for ford and said this is very common on the trucks.
pissed me off 4 months down the road the next cylinder did it. ended up replacing the head and selling the car.
sad thing is i drove it like an old lady... just poor disign the spark plugs only screw in like 3 threads then its bottomed out.
damn i should of broke the fuel rail and then burned the car to the ground for insurance money. would of saved me from having to spend a few nights replacing the head.
Last edited by blkchevyz; 02-23-2009 at 01:29 PM.
02-24-2009, 09:36 AM
#11
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Tulsa,OK
Posts: 254
The V10's have the problem of shooting the plug out too. I have had a 99 F250, 2000 Excursion, and a 2001 F250. All of them had the 6.8 V10. All of them shot out atleast 1 plug. My 99 did it 3 times. I found out that 1 of the reasons it does that is because there are only 3 threads holding the plug! WTF?!?! How can 3 aluminum threads ever be expected to hold back the cylinder pressure?
02-24-2009, 10:58 AM
#12
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Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Friendswood, TX, USA
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Ditto. the only domestic manufacturer that I know of that is such a PITA. I remember changing plugs once on a buddy's 4 cyl ranger, and it had 8 plugs! Every single one of them was a pain to get to.
On a side note, is everyone else bothered as much as me on how GM gets dogged so much about their "dinosaur era" engines? People always seem to find ways to complain because GM uses pushrods, or their engines don't sound "refined" WTF is that? Do you take a refined engine out to tea? It also seems to me that with all of this new "technology" and don't get me wrong, I'm as nerdy as the next guy, aren't we backsliding? I've been looking at a new vehicle, the G8 in particular to replace my Park Avenue. Here's where the problem lies. The Park Ave is heavier, larger all around, gives up 21 hp to the G8, has 240K on it, and I can still pull down 28-30 mpg with a 4 speed auto. The best that I am hearing with the G8 is 26-26 mpg. The 3800 is by no means a "refined" engine, but with the comments that I hear about the noises that the 3.6 makes, is it truly any better?
Sorry about the soapbox, but thinking about what For and others (Chrysler-16 spark plugs in the hemi??) are doing, are they over thinking things?
On a side note, is everyone else bothered as much as me on how GM gets dogged so much about their "dinosaur era" engines? People always seem to find ways to complain because GM uses pushrods, or their engines don't sound "refined" WTF is that? Do you take a refined engine out to tea? It also seems to me that with all of this new "technology" and don't get me wrong, I'm as nerdy as the next guy, aren't we backsliding? I've been looking at a new vehicle, the G8 in particular to replace my Park Avenue. Here's where the problem lies. The Park Ave is heavier, larger all around, gives up 21 hp to the G8, has 240K on it, and I can still pull down 28-30 mpg with a 4 speed auto. The best that I am hearing with the G8 is 26-26 mpg. The 3800 is by no means a "refined" engine, but with the comments that I hear about the noises that the 3.6 makes, is it truly any better?
Sorry about the soapbox, but thinking about what For and others (Chrysler-16 spark plugs in the hemi??) are doing, are they over thinking things?
02-24-2009, 11:16 AM
#13
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Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 290
I consider myself a car guy. Not a "Chevy guy", not a "Ford guy"... But I believe there is nothing the matter with the design of the mod motors. They are efficient, smooth, and every bit reliable as an LS-base motor. I have owned both. I currently own 2 LT1's- if I want simplicity I will go grab a wrench and get under the hood of those cars. If I would rather drive the car though I believe I'll be in my Mustang pinning up 29.5 mpg at 70mph on the highway.
Anyhow, this is just a reminder that 'car guys' still exist. We like all the big 3... I am, on the other hand proud of Ford in a business since... They are doing the best of the big three with the economy sliding. I just hope all of them make it through this.
Anyhow, this is just a reminder that 'car guys' still exist. We like all the big 3... I am, on the other hand proud of Ford in a business since... They are doing the best of the big three with the economy sliding. I just hope all of them make it through this.
02-24-2009, 06:11 PM
#14
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I think that's why there is so much anti-pushrod panter out there. If I was a Ferrari or Porsche engineer, I'd do what I could to make a pushrod V8 "old tech", especially when I am continuously getting my a$$ handed to me by a 'vette.
02-24-2009, 08:34 PM
#15
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Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 2,001
The spark plug ejection is very common on the earlier 4.6/5.4/6.8 - the dealerships typically pull the head and bring them to me for a time-set install on the bench. We do it in chassis - a huge PITA, but significantly cheaper for the customer @ only $150 per blown plug.
The 3 valve motor that you have in your '05 is a much better design power wise than the previous generation. The spark plugs are stupid, but removable without damage if you know what you are doing ahead of time. The plug traps carbon between it's lower body and the aluminum casting - to remove them you need to pull the wires and squirt some pb blaster down there (or wd40) while the motors still warm, loosen the plug a little bit and let it sit for a minute while you loosen the others - then start back over again and work them back and forth to break out the carbon without breaking the plug.
Still couldn't pay me to own one over an LS series motor.
The 3 valve motor that you have in your '05 is a much better design power wise than the previous generation. The spark plugs are stupid, but removable without damage if you know what you are doing ahead of time. The plug traps carbon between it's lower body and the aluminum casting - to remove them you need to pull the wires and squirt some pb blaster down there (or wd40) while the motors still warm, loosen the plug a little bit and let it sit for a minute while you loosen the others - then start back over again and work them back and forth to break out the carbon without breaking the plug.
Still couldn't pay me to own one over an LS series motor.