Nah, that would have been too easy.

I was talking about (and thinking about Henry Royce, hence the slip) his biography, Engines & Enterprise, The Life and Work of Sir Harry Ricardo ISBN# 0750917121. Very interesting read.

Not as techy as some may like but then again it is a biography.

In regards to getting your ME degree.... you'd better get on with it, cause from the sound of things, you won't be happy without it. Been a long time since college for me but I do know about the SAE car building programs and that sounds like something that might be right up your alley. Not only that but it would look nice on a resume... promotes the image of being a "team player" and employers like to see that.
If you're working towards an ME, then you might want to lean things as much as possible towards the automotive specialty side of it. Do a Google search for "automotive engineer" and I'm sure you'll get a better idea.

I am not an engineer, although I have taken many engineering courses throughout and beyond my college years. Continued education is a necessity in my field cause as a programmer, you have to know enough math and physics law to carry you through a variety of different projects. I've done a little bit of everything over the years but not having an ME degree has never slowed me down in what I do.

You're young and eager to learn... that's good. Just remember to take a step back every once in a while and reflect on what you're doing. Try to learn something new everyday.

Best of luck.

-Mindgame

 

Mech E is by far the most diverse engineering degree. I didn't say basic, cause its by far not the easiest, but it has the most applications so you'll always be usefull to some company somewhere. I'm sure a ME degree would help a great deal with the jobs you listed. One thing that i'll warn you of though is that the automotive elective classes you can take at even a good engineering school are somewhat limited. Even though its a 400 level elective, most of the other students won't have your level of interest and the knowledge you've gained from this site and books. I ended up being an unnofficial teachers aid in some of the automotive electives i took.

Now if you want to get into the automotive field the best place to go is probably Kettering (formerly GMI) where Jon OldSS went. I have a cousin who went there who works for GM. Yeah it would be great to design some part of the next gen corvette, or be anywhere in powertrain for that matter, but there are definitly some mundane jobs at GM not much better than designing washing machine parts. Your gonna have to pay the piper first before someone hands you that dream job. I have another cousin who worked for DANA-Spicer who makes the corvette frames, same deal there.

Back to your question about working for racing teams. An ME degree would be a great resume point, but you are still gonna need a lot of real world experience working on cars, good technical skills, and good communication skills. Remember, thats the dream job of most of us here

I "gave up" my professional automotive ambitions to work for a fortune 500 company that was local to me and resorted to being an automotive hobbyist. I have 2.5 years in at that company and yes sometimes I regret it not going for a job at GM ect. To be honest though there is a lot of other interesting machinery out there that you can fall in love with if your a mechanically inclined person. Personally i'd take being an ME degree with the option of taking a job in another interesting industry over getting stuck in a mundane jobs just because they are automotive related.

I guess the point of my ramblings is that yes, go for you MechE degree.

-brent

 

Good point about the SAE stuff. Since i worked through college I didn't have the time to make the commitment to those activities so i never got too involved. I was also a lil turned off by some of the ambitious gear head know it alls who really didn't know squat, but to be a 'team player' you have to deal with them also. From the lil i do know of the programs at PSU, they were pretty much limited to chasis design and bolt on engine components. In other words your not going to get in detail into porting and hardcore engine stuff unless you go to someplace like SAM. Kettering likely has more involved programs too.

I'd like to go to SAM, i think with my ME degree that could take me somewhere, but i'd be taking quite a paycut to go back to school and the first couple years even. Wouldn't be a bad route to go though if you were never used to a big paycheck. I like my job now anyways so i can't justify moving half way accross the country and taking such big risks.

-brent

 

Do them BOTH!

The great thing about mechanics school is when you go back to the ME program you'll know whata wrench is, how to use it, and be able to get the right size socket within a couple of grabs. The guys around you will in many instances be learning how to use a torque wrench for the first time....

Both programs will help you. KNowing how to physically put it together what some of the basic problem solving will put you ahead of the guy who is learning all of this stuff in college only. That is unless he plays with his civic or golf in his spare time...

Jason

 

The University of Toledo is in my home town, and when I was attending there they were the #1 engineering program in the counrty, so Ill probably go there so I can still live at home and save some cash.

They have a really good SAE car program so I would definitely get involved with that, sounded really awesome at the time. I know I would probably have to take just a good paying job at first, and just keep around the racing scene to try to get in with that. I was told by my instructor the absolute best way to get a job in racing is just to hang out at the track and go around talking to every team possible, and just keep dropping off resumes.

Well see though, maybe Ill get what I want without going through school.
Thanks for the opinions guys.

jon

 

Yes, General Motors Institute (GMI), now Kettering, turned out a few outstanding engineers who made it in the motor racing world. Some are pretty well known, some are not unless you have an interest in the history.

In the 60s, GM owned the school, and all co-op work experience was with a GM division. A student had to be "sponsored" by a division, and in the car divisions, often by a specific department. The choice sponsor departments were Chevrolet Engineering Center, Pontiac Product Engineering, run by the late John Z. Delorean in the early 60s, Cadillac Product Engineering, and also Buick and Oldsmobile.

Herb Adams was a Pontiac Product Engineering guy who worked in Advanced Design. This was in the era of Super Duty Catalinas with "swiss cheese" frames, 421 Tempest station wagons with 4-speeed automatic transaxles, the GTO, Firebird, TransAm (most of which was Herb's work), etc. Herb left GM and developed quite a following.

Don *** was a Chevrolet Engineering Center guy. CEC was the Product Engineering Dept. of Chevy. He was internally then externally heavily involved with Chaparral Cars. Jim Hall has said many good things about Don. After Chaparral he moved to Penske where he stayed for quite a while. Again, training and background at GM then elsewhere.

Lee Dykstra was a Cadillac Product Engrg. guy. Cadillac was doing some good engineering stuff in the 60s, kinda fell on their faces later due to Corporate dictates, and has come alive in the past few years. Lee left GM, went to Kar-Kraft and did the 1968 Trans Am Mustang, then left to design a number of very sucessful race cars: 1981 IMSA JLP Porsche 935, 1982 IMSA Jaguar XJR-5, 1985 IMSA GTP Jaguar XJR-7, 1989 IMSA GTO Mazda RX-7 1991 Maxda RX792P GTP, and the ground effects 4WD Toyota Celica Rod Millen drove to an absolute record at Pikes Peak. Generally Lee designed the whole car.

Interestingly, Herb, Don and Lee were within a year or two at GMI. I was fortunate enough to know these three guys as well as some other good guys. All were outstanding engineers, gear heads and very different personalities. Yeah, cream does rise to the top.

There weren't many of the thousands of engineers in GM involved in racing then. There are probably more today, but it's still a tiny percent. You need to be lucky, and good! Good is more important!

Hands on experience in a tech program and/or in a good shop is invaluable, but so is the understanding of how and why things (and the world in general) work. I'm terribly prejudiced, but, IMO, a background in Mechanical Engineering, or maybe physics, is the best preparation one could have in addition to common sense and mechanical aptitude.

The best cam designer I know (or know of) has higher degrees in physics, including particle physics, which is REALLY about "how the world works". He's also a consumate gearhead, a super teacher, and one of the most knowledgeable people on many, many subjects that I've met. Every time we talk I learn something, and he gets me thinking about new ideas by just sugesting a few things. That's cool.

My highly opinionated $.02.

 

Not knocking it, but who told you that?

-brent

 

Dont remember, but that was what I had heard somewhere, and from quite a few people, and thought I even read it somewhere...

Correct me if Im wrong, I dont know if it was at all, I was just under that impression.

jon

 

The SAE programs are pretty cool.....

The biggest thing I have ever seen with them is MAN SOME OF THESE KIDS NEED TO LEARN HOW TO DRIVE THESE THINGS. We are talking about cars with unlimited weight and 600cc bike motors (with restrictors). I was at a autocross standing there watching with a fellow competitor. (we were #1 and #2 in the PAX standings at that race at the time) We looked at each other and said..... "what you think there is a good 5 sec left in that car?" "yeah at least"......

I have seen some cool things in terms of engines in the contest. One team made a mini V8 motor from scratch. That's pretty cool, expensive but cool. If there is enough interest in a program at a school, they would be smart to divide into groups: Chassis, Engine, Driver Development etc....

Plus you also need to check your ego's at the door. The problem with "car guys" is that they all think they know something. It's like dentists and doctors (except for Mr Krause) who think they are car guys because they have money and a BMW, but are far from it.

Bret

 

Jon.....

As far as learning engines go.... You are in the best age in time for learning about motors. The internet has allowed us to learn this craft so much faster it's silly. Problem is that it's knowing what is correct and what's not is the big key to getting the most out of it.

Guys in the past had to learn from someone else...... Kaase learned from Dyno Don Nicholson. Greg Anderson.... WJ Robert Yates..Waddel Wilson etc..... That to me is usually the best way to get into engine stuff. A interest in it is usually the key to getting to where you want to go.

Bret

 

I agree, if it werent for this forum, and knowing who to listen to and such, I wouldnt know a fraction of what I do (or at least think I know). All my classmates are amazed at some of the things Ive learned from here, and its funny to see the looks on instructors faces when I completely stump them with a question I formulated from here, and get a silly made up response from them as well.

I know I could learn "ENOUGH" about this field to get along, make money, and have some fun doing it, but anymore knowing just whats needed isnt enough to really succeed. I think a mathematical/engineering knowledge of how an engine works, the materials involved, and all else that goes along with it would make for an over the top engine builder that could build something just a little better than the next guy, and maybe do it for cheaper.

And this isnt speaking strictly of engines either, I LOVE welding, and doing anything with metal, and building chassis would be awesome, and I know there is a huge help from having a ME/physics type background for chassis engineering.

jon

 

Yea I know what a $189.00 cam is but try to tell these people that are not aware of the difference that the cheap cam is a Pos.

 

Bret,

Don't get me wrong, they are very cool. Maybe PSU doesn't have one of the better overall programs cause i didn't see any mini v8s? i dunno, like i said i didn't get invovled due to me working and some of the other people that i knew were invovled.

If i can take a moment to give myself a pat on the back, I was willing to check my ego at the door, shut my pie hole, and i have open mind to learn. It was kind of funny in some of the classes you had some know it alls the first couple of classes(kids with 5" exhaust tips on their civics), and then as the class became more involved they all shut up and others with knowledge came out of the woodwork(me who had modified motors and suspension, others who actually built multiple motors). You know the scenario, teacher starts calling on the people who don't even have their hand up but they know they can get a good answer out of, use their work as examples, ect.

Another thing is that the classes aren't focused on performance, they cover things like emmisions??? and ride comfort??? What the heck are they?


Jon,

http://www.infozee.com/channels/ms/u...g-rankings.htm
Your not even on the map bro. Maybe they meant top engineering program in the county?
Seriously though, your grades and work experience are going to matter more than the school untill you get your first job. Then your grades don't matter anymore and its all about your performance.

good luck whatever you do.

-brent

 

UCB be #3.... go baby!

Sorry, couldn't pass the opportunity to give props to my old alma mater. Ohhhh, did they ever get alot of ol 'game's money.

-Mindgame

 

One of the nice things about the internet is.. you don't have to walk away from a conversation going... "darnit, I wish I had commented on that".

When I read the following I thought it was great but got lost in other stuff before finishing my post.....

Been a long time since I've had to think like an engineer. That was very well put Oldstroke.

-Mindgame