Ditto on this....

You are talking about $35-$40 valves here rather than $80+ and they will give you all the gains you are talking about and not require CuBe seats.

Throw on what OldSStroker said about beehives and Ti retainers and you have one REALLY light setup. I've seen beehives work on SR stuff but it does limit your lift, the new small diameter light 26000 series springs from Comp will help fix you there.

Either way we are getting into a territory where it's $$$ for durability. It's much cheaper to replace $125 valve springs more often than it is to make a $300-$400 valve spring live 50-75% longer than the cheap spring.

Dammit Jonaddis, you beat me too it. BTW OldSStroker is my father. Like Darth Vader and Luke.

Bret

 

More like C3PO and R2D2?

 

ah, but if you can pick up a set of very low use Ti valves for less than the cost of the hollow step Ferreas, then that throws a bunch of things out of whack

 

I hope youre not referring to used nascar valves as "very low use" valves

I dunno if i could bring myself to buy anything from a valvetrain used except rockers.

 

My theory... Vette owners like to spend $$$$ if something sounds cool.
Steve...

 

Granted the $$/hp ratio isnt great when talking Ti, anything with that light a valvetrain no matter the redline will rev hella quick compared to a nice heavy steel train, not to mention lightweight reciprocating mass.

I was checking out the specs on that BMR T100 turbo SB2 engine they built. Had a crank from LA Billet, the kryptonite crank they call it. Couldnt believe my eyes, 28lbs!!!! A normal forged SBC crank is about 52lbs, 45 is lightweight when talking 4340 at a decent price. Unbelievable, only problem i see with a light rotating assembly is if you have a heavy car not much inertia there.

 

I wouldn't have a problem with running a valve out of a cup car. The only part that I would question is the stem life.

The Cup engines run higher seat angles than most street engines. They also run the seats on the very edge of the valve with thin margins. This promotes the valve trying to pull itself into the head. Not to mention, they usually run a large valve head diameter.

Just cut them down just past the "groove" that 1racerdude mentioned, then put the new angles that you will be running while leaving a thicker margin, and I think they'll be fine for limited street use.


Now, I'm not gonna be doing that, but maybe I should... I found a set of Ti valves that have pretty much no indicated wear. I was told that they had a little bit of dyno time on them only. The price was decent so I picked them up.

 

Don't you figure "that groove"will come back???? The Nascar stuff has small stems which is a high wear item.Ever thought why they sell those valves and not using them next race?

 

I like that point
Also, depending on the price you payed, the amount of money it would cost to do all the work in order for them to work again, then figure in the life they have left, and it probly would be better to buy new.

 

If I'm running half the spring pressure and 3000 RPM less than what a Cup engine does with a hydraulic lifter and less aggresive ramps, I think the grooves will take a while to get bad.

I don't intend on running these heads until I get another car to be my daily driver. When that happens this car will be my "racecar"

 

The used cup car valves floating around are what got me thinking about this in the first place. I've seen quite a few complete sets with standard stem diameters for sale at what I consider to be reasonable prices. Now that the other things have been mentioned though (holoow stems, etc..) I wonder just how much of a real improvement it would be to go with full Ti parts over the hollow stem stuff. I'm pretty serious about this valvetrain diet. I want the motor to be able to rev like cracking a whip, and I know it would be cheaper (by far) to just change the valvesprings every six months, but man what a pain in the butt it is to do on an F-Body! I despise doing it on the motor, and I can't justify the cost of pulling heads just to replace valvesprings. Seems to me that getting rid of the cause of the problem (high valvetrain mass) is the way to go. I can get away with MUCH less spring pressure than would otherwise be required AND have the parts live a nice long life on a relatively hot street motor.

Oh, and one reason I don't think they reuse parts on the cup cars is that they have the budget to do so. Why even bother with xraying to find a hidden crack inside a valve or some other critical part when you can just chuck em and put new ones in every time. I don't think Richard Childress (sp?) would want to lose a race due to 1500 bucks worth of valves. I could be wrong though It's not like THAT ever happens. lol!

Dave C.

 

If that's your goal then your #1 priority is sheer horespower. You'll notice that high horespower cars on chassis dynos making pulls don't take very long to make the pull, LOL. The more power an engine has the quicker it will rev. Now there are 10,000 routes to achieve this power as we all know. From what I'm reading in this thread I really get the impression that you are fixating on just one component of an entire combination. That's not a slam by any means as it happens a lot. The last thing you want to do is base an engine build up on valve material.
For what it's worth I have an exhaust valve out of John Force's F/C sitting on my desk... it's not titanium, it weighs a ton, and I assure you they spin their engine to the moon... and it revs kind of quick, LOL. Extreme example, but you get the idea.
Steve...

 

Is there any application for berrylium copper
valve seats, in cyl heads using ordinary SS valves.
I would guess that BC valve seats would
reduce valve temperature, but not sure.

 

That is a good point, although 8-9000 rpms consistantly for 3 hours or whatever (dont watch nascar so couldnt tell you) with ungodly spring pressure on ungodly steep ramps, with ungodly high lift just doesnt sound appetizing for a valve opening and closing 3-400 times before you could even see it move once.

Another interesting fact Ive heard...nascar (some) teams buy bulk valvesprings at the beginning of the season, 2500 of them to ballpark it, at $85 a piece, and less than half I think are even worthy of being used. Hmm I think ill go out today and buy $250000 worth of valvesprings!

 

When I originally built this motor, the only thing I had to compromise on was the valvetrain. I would like to now go back and correct that. Basically I'm over 500 flywheel now, but there's more in this package with the right parts. I'm planning on switching to a set of ported trickflows, and wanted to go ahead and get the good parts right from the start this time. I've been meaning to hook up my bottle, but I'm a bit leary of it until I get the new heads (thicker deck surface for a little more insurance). Believe me, I researched this thing to death before buying the first part, and so far I've been happy with it. 117-118 traps in good air @ 3700 lb's aint too shabby (and that pig of a weight will be addressed next!) IMHO, but there's more in it, and I want to get the most out of the N/A combo, then spray the 150 shots on it and run the number.

I'm just doing homework again.

Dave C.