Converting to Alcohol with EFI
Thread Starter
West South Central Moderator
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,371
From: Kilgore TX 75662
Converting to Alcohol with EFI
Who's done it and can you share the details?
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Cheston P - IM_A_0@yahoo.com AIM:Impalaitis
96 BBB Impala SS "ADIOSS"
91 white Caprice 'n0n 9c1' w/L03
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Cheston P - IM_A_0@yahoo.com AIM:Impalaitis
96 BBB Impala SS "ADIOSS"
91 white Caprice 'n0n 9c1' w/L03
GM_TBI listserv
GMForums.com
ImpalaSSForum.com
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 556
From: Chicago, IL
160lb injectors
HUGE alcohol fuel pump
www.turbobuick.com
ECM section....i believe one of the FAST originators has an alcohol fed motor
HUGE alcohol fuel pump
www.turbobuick.com
ECM section....i believe one of the FAST originators has an alcohol fed motor
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 345
From: That Southern Fried Space City
With the amount of maintenance involved, I'd be hard pressed to do this on a street car. Even a street/strip car. Heck, even a strip only car for that matter 
I had thoughts but decided against it after realizing how lazy I am...
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Bobby Simpson II *Bling Bling* Sold Seperately...
32 Valve Dominion Headed 1994 Z28... "White Lightning"
Budget Performance Racing...Layin' the smack down
"My skillz are impeccable..."
I had thoughts but decided against it after realizing how lazy I am...------------------
Bobby Simpson II *Bling Bling* Sold Seperately...
32 Valve Dominion Headed 1994 Z28... "White Lightning"
Budget Performance Racing...Layin' the smack down
"My skillz are impeccable..."
Thread Starter
West South Central Moderator
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,371
From: Kilgore TX 75662
I'll be rebuilding the fuel system for the new engine (yet to be built) anyway, so why not go with what will make more power?
I've been doin a little research. I would need to plumb 125% more Methanol than gasoline if I went that route, or 63% more if I went with Ethanol. Both burn considerably cooler than gasoline. I would also be about to build a still and make my own (denatured) ethanol
I need to talk to some of the roundy-round guys since they actaully run this kind of stuff in their race cars and have lots more experience than myself
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Cheston P - IM_A_0@yahoo.com AIM:Impalaitis
96 BBB Impala SS "ADIOSS"
91 white Caprice 'n0n 9c1' w/L03
GM_TBI listserv
GMForums.com
ImpalaSSForum.com
I've been doin a little research. I would need to plumb 125% more Methanol than gasoline if I went that route, or 63% more if I went with Ethanol. Both burn considerably cooler than gasoline. I would also be about to build a still and make my own (denatured) ethanol
I need to talk to some of the roundy-round guys since they actaully run this kind of stuff in their race cars and have lots more experience than myself
------------------
Cheston P - IM_A_0@yahoo.com AIM:Impalaitis
96 BBB Impala SS "ADIOSS"
91 white Caprice 'n0n 9c1' w/L03
GM_TBI listserv
GMForums.com
ImpalaSSForum.com
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 345
From: That Southern Fried Space City
"so why not go with what will make more power?"
Because sometimes something that sounds simple and effective ends up being more of a pain in the **** just to make "power." Do your homework before you settle and realize that alochol burning engines are on the track for a reason.
Alcohol motors run extremely cool which is why you'll find what seems like insane compression and the loss of thermostats on these motors.
Keep in mind the rate at which alochol burns though. You'll use (burn) two to three times as much as opposed gas. If you need someone to give you some in depth info, give Brent a call@ (281) 332-5133 and tell him that Bobby Simpson sent ya. He'll be able to take care of ya...
------------------
Bobby Simpson II *Bling Bling* Sold Seperately...
32 Valve Dominion Headed 1994 Z28... "White Lightning"
Budget Performance Racing...Layin' the smack down
"My skillz are impeccable..."
Because sometimes something that sounds simple and effective ends up being more of a pain in the **** just to make "power." Do your homework before you settle and realize that alochol burning engines are on the track for a reason.
Alcohol motors run extremely cool which is why you'll find what seems like insane compression and the loss of thermostats on these motors.
Keep in mind the rate at which alochol burns though. You'll use (burn) two to three times as much as opposed gas. If you need someone to give you some in depth info, give Brent a call@ (281) 332-5133 and tell him that Bobby Simpson sent ya. He'll be able to take care of ya...
------------------
Bobby Simpson II *Bling Bling* Sold Seperately...
32 Valve Dominion Headed 1994 Z28... "White Lightning"
Budget Performance Racing...Layin' the smack down
"My skillz are impeccable..."
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 2,148
From: Bay Area, CA
I asked awhile back to do a smog check.
You need new fuel lines and connectors that wont rot with alcohol. Generically speaking you need twice as much fuel to make the same power. Maybe you already know this stuff, but it seemed impractical so I pretty much dropped the idea.
You need new fuel lines and connectors that wont rot with alcohol. Generically speaking you need twice as much fuel to make the same power. Maybe you already know this stuff, but it seemed impractical so I pretty much dropped the idea.
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 2,148
From: Bay Area, CA
Alcohol doesn't make the same power as gasoline, it'll cool the combustion chambers as a side benefit but alcohol alone doesn't make great power.
You could always look into nitromethane, but thats going to be $, but then again alcohol is costly and useless unless your all out into serious class competition.
You could always look into nitromethane, but thats going to be $, but then again alcohol is costly and useless unless your all out into serious class competition.
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 345
From: That Southern Fried Space City
His shop is open from 9-6 or 7ish (central) Monday thru Sat. Be ready for more details than you bargained for.
I didn't go into a lot of detail here cause I wasn't sure what kind of research you had done already. Mudge hit on a few points. The burn rate is what makes the power with alky. You run a lot more compression because of this so thats why there is power to be made naturally aspirated over gas. But once again, there's always the side effects. The complete fuel system has to be redone with non-corrosive lines and fittings (already been stated) and you will have to do monthly (maybe more frequent depending on how many miles) maintenance on the system to ensure nothing is being eaten away. This normally consist of running an oil mixture through the system to keep the system lubricated.
And also remember this burn rate I keep talking about it how quickly the fuel is being used. When I say two to three times as much as gas, that means its burning that fast. So in essence, your 20 gallon tank will move and use that fuel two to three times more than gas. So depending on how far you drive, your fill ups are going be frequent.
------------------
Bobby Simpson II *Bling Bling* Sold Seperately...
32 Valve Dominion Headed 1994 Z28... "White Lightning"
Budget Performance Racing...Layin' the smack down
"My skillz are impeccable..."
[This message has been edited by The Big Show (edited August 24, 2002).]
I didn't go into a lot of detail here cause I wasn't sure what kind of research you had done already. Mudge hit on a few points. The burn rate is what makes the power with alky. You run a lot more compression because of this so thats why there is power to be made naturally aspirated over gas. But once again, there's always the side effects. The complete fuel system has to be redone with non-corrosive lines and fittings (already been stated) and you will have to do monthly (maybe more frequent depending on how many miles) maintenance on the system to ensure nothing is being eaten away. This normally consist of running an oil mixture through the system to keep the system lubricated.
And also remember this burn rate I keep talking about it how quickly the fuel is being used. When I say two to three times as much as gas, that means its burning that fast. So in essence, your 20 gallon tank will move and use that fuel two to three times more than gas. So depending on how far you drive, your fill ups are going be frequent.
------------------
Bobby Simpson II *Bling Bling* Sold Seperately...
32 Valve Dominion Headed 1994 Z28... "White Lightning"
Budget Performance Racing...Layin' the smack down
"My skillz are impeccable..."
[This message has been edited by The Big Show (edited August 24, 2002).]
Registered User
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 211
From: craplanta ga
Well from somebody who realy does truly run meth on his street car i can say this..IT DOES MAKE MORE POWER..Average about 20 percent more..
You will be better off with efi bacuase you dont have to swap out manmy components..Most any steel braided line is safe to run methanol already and if your thinking of running it then your stock fuel lines probally arent in the system anyways..You will have to perform at least a yearly maintanance on the system..You will need to replace your injector orings , fuel lines, and any rubber parts in your pump assembly to be safe..Everyweek on a street car or after every track outing you will have to run some gas throught the system at idle to get the meth out of the system so the lines will last longer..Every time you store the car for long you just dissconect your fuel lines at the cell or tank and injectors and pump crc or wd40 through them to keep them lubed..
Meth is definatly a high maintainace fuel but if your combo is already maxed out and you are ok with the extra stuff then go for it..You do have to run twice as much fuel but its also cheaper than race gas even if your buying twice as much..
Bad thing is that there are only a few alky compatable pumps out there..I strayed away from the weldon pumps because i scored a free SX unit but i had to get it refreshed once in 7 months of real street driving nere in philly..Stop and go and some highway about 50 miles a day and 250 or more on the weekends..
The fuel switch brought my engine temps down from 200 degs to 170 and made the car so much more fun to drive..Besides going from a 11.30 to a 10.40 ET..
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FLUCK A SPELL CHECK<I CAN SPELL REALLY GOOD< IT'S JUST THE TYPEING THAT STINK AT!
http://phillyfabanddesign.tripod.com/parts4sale/
http://phillyfabanddesign.tripod.com/phillyfabricationanddesign/
http://phillyfabanddesign.tripod.com/PhillyFabsLT1RX7/id1.html
88 RX7 GTU, 97 Lt1/700R4,10" 3K stall, 4.30 gears,285CFM heads,12.4-1 compression, custom cam and 2700lbs...Daily driven!
You will be better off with efi bacuase you dont have to swap out manmy components..Most any steel braided line is safe to run methanol already and if your thinking of running it then your stock fuel lines probally arent in the system anyways..You will have to perform at least a yearly maintanance on the system..You will need to replace your injector orings , fuel lines, and any rubber parts in your pump assembly to be safe..Everyweek on a street car or after every track outing you will have to run some gas throught the system at idle to get the meth out of the system so the lines will last longer..Every time you store the car for long you just dissconect your fuel lines at the cell or tank and injectors and pump crc or wd40 through them to keep them lubed..
Meth is definatly a high maintainace fuel but if your combo is already maxed out and you are ok with the extra stuff then go for it..You do have to run twice as much fuel but its also cheaper than race gas even if your buying twice as much..
Bad thing is that there are only a few alky compatable pumps out there..I strayed away from the weldon pumps because i scored a free SX unit but i had to get it refreshed once in 7 months of real street driving nere in philly..Stop and go and some highway about 50 miles a day and 250 or more on the weekends..
The fuel switch brought my engine temps down from 200 degs to 170 and made the car so much more fun to drive..Besides going from a 11.30 to a 10.40 ET..
------------------
FLUCK A SPELL CHECK<I CAN SPELL REALLY GOOD< IT'S JUST THE TYPEING THAT STINK AT!
http://phillyfabanddesign.tripod.com/parts4sale/
http://phillyfabanddesign.tripod.com/phillyfabricationanddesign/
http://phillyfabanddesign.tripod.com/PhillyFabsLT1RX7/id1.html
88 RX7 GTU, 97 Lt1/700R4,10" 3K stall, 4.30 gears,285CFM heads,12.4-1 compression, custom cam and 2700lbs...Daily driven!
Registered User
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 39
From: Fl/Tn
I'd say do it if it's gonna be your race car. We run alcohol in our new 4-link dragster, 572 ci, it's great! I see you live in Texas...if you bracket race the alky will make the car more concistent in the heat.
Remember, alcohol is less sensitive to changes in the weather.
You'll have to change the oil all the time! Alcohol burns so cold that water condenses in the oil pan and valve covers, causing "mayonaise," which is thick, milky oil. We change the oil every 8-10 1/4 mile passes.
You'll need a belt driven fuel pump. We burn 6 gallons per pass in the dragster, as opposed to 2 gallons per pass of gas in the Camaro. Count on much greater fuel cost. Alky also doesn't "store" well if you buy drums. When compressed its so cool that water condenses on the fuel.
Good Luck!
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1981 Z28
8.696 @ 152.23 N/A
2000 SVT Lightning
Mods: Yes
www.wickedfast.net
Remember, alcohol is less sensitive to changes in the weather.
You'll have to change the oil all the time! Alcohol burns so cold that water condenses in the oil pan and valve covers, causing "mayonaise," which is thick, milky oil. We change the oil every 8-10 1/4 mile passes.
You'll need a belt driven fuel pump. We burn 6 gallons per pass in the dragster, as opposed to 2 gallons per pass of gas in the Camaro. Count on much greater fuel cost. Alky also doesn't "store" well if you buy drums. When compressed its so cool that water condenses on the fuel.
Good Luck!
------------------
1981 Z28
8.696 @ 152.23 N/A
2000 SVT Lightning
Mods: Yes
www.wickedfast.net
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