http://s106.photobucket.com/albums/m...t=MVC-047S.jpg

It's going on this.

It'll do for us old guys. Bought it less engine,but my new set up is better than the one he had on the 8.65 pass.

 

Building off of Bret's post, I am sure there is more hp to be had if I could afford a manifold designed just to flow air, not something designed to flow fuel (as well as air). But AFAIK, nothing off the shelf fills that bill. I am also using a converted Super Vic. As he emphasized, the hp gain I saw had nothing to do with EFI per se, it was just the chance to use a big TB with less restriction. I see next to zero vacuum at WOT.

Making more hp with a carb is certainly possible. But for those of you who ever tried to tune a large carb for anything other than WOT, you will appreciate the ease of tuning with EFI. When you consider that the Electromotive system I use also replaces the ignition system, much of the cost advantage of a carb goes away. A race Dominator, ignition box, coil, and distributor aren't cheap either.

Here's mine. I know it look like I am making some weird hand signal in the pic, ignore that.



Rich

 

Carbs are not cheap at all.........Either way it would cost the same for what I was looking at.

I'm shooting for 135 mph on motor

 

Whooo Hooo nice ride Rich.

 

rich whats the wheel base on it? I don't like short cars.....too scary.

Looks good.....ever win anything?

 

Don't know any of that, but I can tell you it sounds REALLY mean when it drives by.

Rich, gonna be at NYIRP on sunday?

 

It would seem to me that an EFI system has the potential to make more horsepower than a carb system. The reason being the carb has to have some depression in order for the fuel to flow out into the airstream. A depression means that there is some restriction in the airflow through the carb. With an EFI system non of that is required and you can have as big a throttle body as you need.

 

It's 110", pretty stable. Yeah, longer wheelbase has a lot of advantages but I LIKE the shorties. Gives you something to do besides point and shoot. I win a few rounds here and there with it. The car is uber consistent when I launch it easy, the driver needs work though! Runs high eights in the low 150's on an easy launch shifting at ~6,500 - the 60' times are in the mid 1.3x's. Launched at 5,000rpm it 60's at about 1.20 and runs 8.70's at about 155 shifting at 7,100.

Gonna go a little faster and quicker next year after some head work.

Fun stuff.

Rich

 

I wish! Last day but I have to go out of town.

Rich

 

Transitional response. If you look that one up all you'll find is info on speakers, same concept the ability for the motor to change frequency (RPM)

That and atomization and direction of the fuel also seem to help a lot of the acceleration of the motor.

Well if you don't have to regulate the change in fuel for the RPM like a Fuel car and your only job is to get the most NITRO you can into the cylinder a hose with a big pump do a good job, not the same thing as a NA gas burner.

Not even touching the spring car deal... I've seen some impressive spring car motors (Fords and Dogdes) and they aren't that impressive in terms of output for the size.

Sonny's 815 cube motor for Coughlin is another story, 1700+ is impressive on good ole nature and gasoline!

Bret

 

SBC won't go 815CID and Ford and Dodges are few and far between in the WOO.
At WOT ain't that what any fuel system does is get the most in.
Mechanical injection(Hilborn,Rons,Enderly) are cam dependent as the cam governs when where why.Fuel is going into the port under pressure all the time and when the intake is open and doesn't have to be sucked in by the piston. AS long as ya got the right amount of fuel laying behind the intake valve and being pumped in as long as the valve is open, ya gonna make plenty of HP.There is also ONE jet/pill to fool with and a barrel valve that regulates fuel by % of throttle, that's all. The nozzles squirt ALL THE TIME the engine is running,not in pulses/duty cycle.Much simpler.
Ya can forget the "pull through" and fuel separation and all that other BS,fuel is AT THE VALVE where it's supposed to be.

Ya could put anything on top of a 815 incher and make power.Not saying PS don't do the ultimate in there class either. Thought REAL PS was 500CID. Sorry bout that,it's Pro Mod...
I can't count that high 8 wha--


Something like this.

 

I'm going to work on a 814 ford now. $4500 in the crank alone.....its full of mallory

I can't wait till this thing makes a pass, After knowing everything that is inside of it.


Bret where can you get some of the inseider PS tips for nhra? I'm interested in seeing how they do it with the 500 inch restriction

 

Hmmm, I wonder why fuel injector placement and fuel pressure on EFI can make 50+ hp differences then? It all has to do with droplet size.

 

I'd like to see some data on the fuel temp inside the rails of an efi system, and perhaps the mass of the fuel charge delivered, orrifice sizes entering and siting an efi injector as well. Intake air temps at max hp would be interesting as well. Just thinking out loud it would be interesting to do a mass and energy balance on the system, purely for analysis reasons.

All i'm getting at is I wonder what the effect of the introduced kinetic energy in the fuel is from the injectors. Does it increase the charge density by cooling the air local to it? and therefore creating more pull in the intake tract? or does it put drag on the intake air which has a very high velocity at WOT. What i mean to say is in the sonny's example Bret mentioned, is sonny's intake/exhaust setup too good and blows unburned charge out the exhaust with help from the efi? or does the fuel slow down the charge and change the airflow pattern and choke the motor causing the hp loss. Or perhaps i'm way off track, and its all about fuel temp and the carbed stuff just has more room to get warmed up and vaporized, as it contacts the aluminum for a substantially longer distance.

Obviously some of the required inputs to do a numerical analysis of it would be very difficult if not impossible to obtain due to adverse conditions, so maybe we'll never know. Just some ideas i had today.

 

Josh, I know that intake temp diferences in a alchol/E85 and gas are very different, the temps are nice and low on alcohol, which along with the added octane is the main reason you can run so much compression with them. Only thing I really don't like about alcohol is the smell when you walk around the pits.

The Sonny's example very well could be where the fuel is introduced. If they did the F1 deal with the injector above the port, just like a carb does it might run even better.

I really wish there was more E85 out there and engines developed exactly for it. Mainly political reasons but also some environmental issues I would really like to see that. The milage difference could easily be fixed with the addition of lots of compression to the motor since the engine could definately take it. If a 12:1 BBC with a street cam can run around without problems then imagine what real combustion spaces can do!

Bret