I am looking for a cyl head that i can grow with. What do people think of putting the 220/227 on a 383 and have the car as a DD..

-Are these heads to big for a 383 , will i have any low end
-is it easy to port them if i order them right from AFR as the package or should i order them bare then get them worked to were i want them for now
-Do i have to run a large cam with these heads HR/SR
-any other tip or ideas

thx

 

we ran a set of 220s on a 396...and i think they were just to damn big for our 7,000 firm redline

soft bottom end and they just started coming one strong at 6,000. We tried big cams and little cams neither were happy.

This is just what we found. I am sure for pure race they rock

BTW you really need offset rockers for them. They say you can use regulars on the 220s but they do not work well

 

Too big for a street small block IMHO.

Rich

 

I sure hope not! I have the 220's on my 383 that will be fired up here in a few weeks. Many people run the 210's on low compression (8.5 or 9.0:1 engines) and don't find them sluggish even with the loss of low end due to compression and spinning a huge blower, I can't imagine that a 12:1 w/ 220's will be that bad.

I'll let you guys know how mine runs as it is a weekend car and will get driven on the street quite a bit. I don't drive mine but 2k miles/yr but I can't see why it couldn't be driven on the street and still be fun.

Also, on the offset rockers issue....my understanding in talking to AFR is that the 210 and 220 are made from the same raw casting with just a different cnc cut to the runners, so how can a 220 require offset rockers but not a 210?

 

Just depends on your goal. For a 383/396 combination that pulls to ~7k, they're probably just about right.

The heads on my engine are right at 230cc and they'd probably be "too big" by many people's standard of what is streetable. I can tell you this much though... at anything around 3000 rpm+, I can stab the throttle and put the melt down on a set of 315/35/17 Pilots. I don't know how much more torque you could really use on the street.

The 440ci small block I'm putting together for next summer will have a 270cc head on it.

We'll see how that one works out.

-Mindgame

 

The 210-220-227 can be used with standard RR's on a stud,the rockers sit angled to the head and doesn't hurt a thing.Of course if you have plenty of money T&D will sell you a set of shaft rocker's for $1000.00+,so will Jesel and Crower.
I am using a 245CC on a 7000RPM-383?????? Depends on your set up,and weather it is correct or not.If you get the flow up around .4+ MACH you are hurting.

 

Hmm... well since I put your valvetrain together I can say the 220's WILL work with standard rockers, but require adjustable guide plates. This is the limit of a "conventional" valve train in my book... the pushrod angles are impressive, LOL!
Can't wait to fire it up Ron!
Steve...

 

Well, not too big for a a 440ci "small" block

Rich

 

This is one thing that is driving me nuts...some people say to big and some are saying just right...

May goal down the road will be up over 500rw and at this level i want to drive the car....every day .....if i wanted to

How many people are at the 500ish rw mark what kind of low end do you have...

As for this coming winter project my goal would be 450ish rw...

Could a 210 be pushed to this level..i bet i would be a very big SR

where do the 220/227 fall into place...

 

There is a subjective element here, that's why the answers are all over the map. One thing to keep in mind, after porting the ports will get bigger, typically by 10-15cc. So, if you are running a set of ported 195's, they will be ~210cc. A set of 210's will be in the 225cc range, and so on. Your best bet is to buy the assembled heads as a "package" from whoever is porting your heads. That way you can get the parts that you select. OTOH, if you are doing this buildup in stages you could them assembled from AFR and use them "out of the box" until you are ready to upgrade.

Keep in mind that if this is an LT1 that will run off the factory PCM you are limited to 7,000 rpm. Builidng a motor that peaks at 7,500 or 8,000rpm won't do you much good in that case.

There are LT1 strokers with ported factory castings making in the mid 400's for rwhp (M6 cars) using fairly mild hydraulic cams. A set of decently ported AFR 195's will flow in the range of 290-300CFM at 0.600". This is enough for ~600hp (which would be in the 500rwhp range) with a streetable cam (peak hp in the 6,500rpm range). It's the cam more than the port volume that will determine how "streetable" it is. But to use the big ports, you need high rpm and therefore a big cam, and so on.

Rich

 

You might want to plan on doing a intake swap aswell. Not to many people over 500rwhp with a LT1/LT4 intake. I'm talking N/A of course. I just changed to the new Victor Jr EFI intake. I'll post the results once I get it back on the car. I also did a cam change and am now running FAST, so my gains should be greater, I hope?

Neal

 

PNYKILR, what kind of rwhp numbers did your car make w/ the LT1/4 intake? What are the specs on the top end parts and tranny?

 

The 227's flow in the 310CFM range,Sooo they are capable of supporting 630+FWHP.That is with AFR's comp port job.In my oppinion ya can't get to much head.You will need an intake to flow with the heads and a LT-1-4 ain't it.If the rest of your set up supports the heads then you will be OK.Stroke,Rod length,compression,intake and CIA,and cam all have to be built around the heads.If you have big heads you make adjustment's accordingly.More air=,more fuel=,more pop=more HP

 

Rich is right.. it's all relative.

Let me add...... to RPM.

How many strokers do you see making power to 7000? I'm not talking about the guys who peak at 6300-6500 on their graphs and shift at 7, but the ones making power up to that rpm.

Not trying to smack anyone up side the head, but most of the "max-effort" 383/396 combos I've seen built on this message board just aren't that impressive. Has nothing to do with the guys putting them together, just the fact that they aren't anywhere near potential IMO. They're throwing plenty of cam at the thing (the brute force approach).... just don't seem to have enough lungs to turn the revs.

So if you're looking to make the power to your cutoff, you might not want to copy those combinations unless you want similar results.

I think the heads CAN be too big. All relative to the rpm though.

And they're pushing around .55 mach now with good port shapes LR. How times have changed.

-Mindgame

 

.55 is not a good thing for the average engine builder.Pro Stock but not average.Who do you know turning 9,500 and driving on the street or local track.The cams are wierd(square).

I don't know any at all,and dam few doing it off of the trailer.