I am looking to compete in a class next year that you have to run a head within 2* of stock. So who makes that all out best 23* sbc heads and which head is it? I'm going to have them converted over to lt1 once I get them, unless the afr RR head is the best out there. I'm sorry if this doesn't belong here, but I just didn't know where else to post it.

 

You running NA or nitrous, supercharger, what??

Maybe throw us a link to the rules for that class while you're at it. More info is needed.

-Mindgame

 

All Pro can get in the neighborhood of 360CFM is what they told me. They are about $5200.00 unconverted,assembled,and ready to be converted.

 

Outlaw Stock
Rules & Regulations
General: Reserved for American cars, stock bodied with stock type chassis and frame rails. Cars may be Modified within the following guidelines only.

Engine : Must be V8 or V6 only, on stock bore spacing. Aluminum or cast iron acceptable. Cross breeding of motor to different manufacturer of body permitted.

Exhaust: Any type of header configuration permitted.......must use
mufflers no more then one outlet per side.

Intake Manifold : Cast aluminum, single four barrel or throttle body, that is generally available. Any modifications allowed.

Carb & Fuel injection : Single four barrel or throttle body permitted.

Oiling System : Any wet sump oil system permitted, must be single stage, any oil pan permitted,. Vacuum pumps permitted.

Heads : Any stock style, stock port configuration, stock valve angle permitted (plus or minus 2 degrees). ( Refer to Pro Extreme Street Head List)

Fuel: Gasoline only. Any generally available gasoline permitted. No mixing of fuels allowed.


Nitrous Systems : Restricted to a single stage fogger, single stage plate, or cross bar plate. Push systems prohibited. No more then 4 soleniods (2 nitrous-2 Fuel). Soleniods must be conventional in size and no larger then a .125 orifice. Nitrous systems must be entirely contained to the intake manifold. Purge systems OK, must exit from under hood and away from the air opening of the hood. Purge systems may not be activated during a run. Safety Solenoid OK.
Single Fogger: Limited to one nozzle, one nitrous orifice per cylinder. limited to no larger then a .036 nitrous jet per nozzle.
Single Plate : Limited to 2 spray bars, one nitrous one fuel. Nozzles in plate prohibited. Limited to no larger then a .102 nitrous jet.
Cross Bar Plate : Must be cross bar design. Limited to no larger then 2 .072 nitrous jets in cross bar plate. Stacked plates prohibited

Super Chargers : Centrifugal type super chargers only, roots type blowers prohibited. Super Chargers will be restricted to follow NMRA Renegade guidelines, except for: Any camshaft permitted. Any head listed in Pro Extreme Street rules Permitted. Small blocks only. Big Blocks prohibited.

Turbo Chargers : Limited to V6 GN style motors only. Stage II motors permitted. Stock style three bolt turbos only. No four bolt turbos permitted. Sheet metal intakes allowed with 100lb. weight adder. Turbo must be mounted in stock location.

Intercoolers : Allowed on turbo charged entries only, must be air to
air. Must be located forward of the engine. Air to water intercoolers prohibited.


Manual Transmissions : Any OEM style manual transmission or aftermarket transmission permitted, clutch must be used to shift all gears in conventional manner, transmission must be designed for that purpose. Clutch must be single disc type.



Automatic Transmission : Any OEM style auto trans with torque converter permitted. Lock up converters prohibited. Transbrakes permitted.

Rear End : Any factory style rear end permitted.


Body : Original OEM body profile from front bumper to rear bumper
must be stock. Fiberglass restricted to hoods, and bumpers only.
Scoops : Only cowl style, rear opening scoops allowed with a
maximum height of 6" from base of hood to highest point of cowl.
Front opening scoops limited to OEM style and must have been
available on that model vehicle.
Bumpers : Must be EXACT duplicate to original bumpers. Permitted
only on vehicles that originally had steel bumpers.
Rear Wheel Well Openings : Minor alterations of wheel opening
permitted for tire clearances only.
Rear Spoilers : Permitted. Must be stock style for body used.
Aftermarket wings prohibited.
Firewalls : Stock unaltered firewall required, may fill in unused holes
or bumps. Modifications allowed in distributor area only.
Floors/Trunk Pan/Transmission Tunnel: Stock unaltered floor pan,
except for thru floor sub frame connectors and shifter clearances
required from firewall to back bumper.
Stickers and Lettering : Limited to windows only.
Windows : All windows must be glass. Side windows must roll up
and down. Lexan prohibited except for pick up trucks rear windows.
Front Fender Splash Pans : Full factory OEM style splash pans
required. May use any material, may be trimmed for header
clearance.


Frame : Stock unaltered frame rails required, sub frames on uni-body cars may be joined, if connector goes thru floor, floor must be completely welded to connector. Stock rear sub-frames required. Outer frame rail portion Only, may be notched for suspension and tire clearance. When notching, stock inner frame rail must remain unaltered and in stock location.


Front Suspension :
K-Members : Aftermarket K-members permitted. Stock K-members
may be modified in oil pan area to allow oil pan enlargement or
removal.
Strut Tower/Upper Shock Mounting Points : Factory OEM strut tower
required. For 1978 and earlier strut tower and shock tower may be
moved for using commercial available suspension kits. Other
sections of suspension rules must be adhered to.
Control Arms : OEM or tubular required which must be attached in
stock location.
Shock/Struts : Aftermarket struts and shocks permitted providing
stock attachment locations are used.
Springs : Aftermarket Springs permitted.
Coil Overs : Coil over shocks and struts permitted. Stock OEM
mounting location required.
Camber Plates : Bolt on type camber plates permitted.
Spindles : Accepted bolt on, commercially available spindles
permitted.


Rear Suspension : Stock type suspension may utilize aftermarket
shocks, springs, (leaf springs may be moved inboard). Aftermarket
torque arms permitted. Aftermarket leaf spring kits permitted.
Replacement Control Arms : Permitted. Control arms may use any
type bushing or rod end. Must remain in stock location with stock
mounting points.
Ladder Bars : Welded on ladder bars using fabricated front support
permitted. Track locator permitted. Must add 50 Ibs.
Sway Bars/Anti Roll Bar: Aftermarket or factory permitted.
Shocks and Springs : Shocks may be moved inboard for tire
clearance. Rear coil cars must have stock spring in stock location.
Coil over shocks permitted must add 50lbs.
Wheel Tubs : Stock tubs may be modified on inner portion only.
May not be raised only widened.
Mini Tubs : Full mini tub permitted, must remain same height as
stock tub. Must add 50lbs.
Wheelie Bars : Permitted. Must not exceed 52"s in length from center of rear axle housing to end of bar. Must be a minimum of 5"s off the ground, including travel.
Wheel Base : Must remain stock plus or minus 1".


Tires and Wheels :
Rear Tires : Must use no larger then 28 x 10.5". No W tires
permitted.
Rear Wheels : No wider then 10"s
Front Tires/Wheels : Spindle mount front wheels prohibited. Any
others permitted.


Interior : Must maintain stock appearance, including factory OEM dashboard and headliner. Heater or Air Conditions controls may be removed. Floor must be completely carpeted or upholstered, door panels must be stock. OEM or aftermarket seats permitted, must be upholstered. Must have drivers and passenger seats. Rear seat may be removed, however area must carpeted or upholstered.
Steering Column : Stock required. Aftermarket steering wheel permitted.
Pedals : Stock pedals must remain in stock location.
Gauges : Aftermarket gauges permitted, (may be installed in OEM dash)
Street Legal Requirements : Head lights and tail lights mandatary.





Weights :
Small Block Nitrous : Base weight 3100Ibs. at 400ci.
add 2.0 Ibs. per ci over 400ci.
deduct I.0Ibs. per ci under 400ci.
Small Block Super Charger: Base weight 3350lbs.
add 2.0 Ibs. per ci over 400 ci.
deduct 1 .0lbs. per ci under 400ci
V6 Turbo : Base weight 3250 Ibs.
add 2.0 per ci over 260 ci.
Big Block Nitrous : Base weight 3200lbs. at 400ci.
add 2.0 Ibs per ci over 400ci
deduct 1.0 per ci under 400 ci.
Weight Adders :
Rear Coil Over Shocks add 50lbs.
Ladder Bars add 50lbs.
Full mini tub add 50lbs.
V6 sheet metal intake add 100lbs.
Super Charger Cars add 50lbs. For Air to Air intercoolers
Weight Deducts:
Hyd. Cam deduct 50lbs.

Blowers, V6 turbos, mini tubs, coil overs and ladder bars are permitted for the 2005 season only.

*AII weights are with driver at conclusion of run at scales.

Safety requirements : Must meet hosting track rules.
It's the participants responsibility to know what the requirements are
before racing !!!



I would be using a .102 jet in a single plate. and under the 400ci. I can honestly say I wasn't expecting to hear $5000 for a set of heads, that's up there in bbc head land. Sorry I didn't give enough info out the first post. The car is going to be way over the weight limit which will hurt me, but not to much I can do there.

 

I would be using a .102 jet in a single plate. and under the 400ci. I can honestly say I wasn't expecting to hear $5000 for a set of heads, that's up there in bbc head land. Sorry I didn't give enough info out the first post

====================================

There are some that cost more than that..

 

I was just looking at All Pro's website... man do they have some nice stuff.

 

Uhhh.... this is all pointless unless we have this list.

( Refer to Pro Extreme Street Head List)

Small Block Chevrolet
• Chevrolet Factory OEM Iron & OEM Aluminum, Vortec (L31) 10239906, 12558062
• All Pro RR-245, 23 Degree, Standard Version
• Pontiac 867, 23 Degree, Raised Runner, Standard Version
• Edelbrock Performer, Performer RPM, E-Tec 170cc & 200cc
• Edelbrock Victor Jr. & Victor & CNC, 23 Degree, Standard & Raised Runner
• Edelbrock Victor Part # 77559 23 degree Raised Runner head
• Air Flow Research 180,190,195,210,220,227cc Street, Racing & Raised Runner Head
• Air Flow Research 180cc LT 1, 195,210,220,227CC LT4, 215CC LT4RR, 205,225 LS1
• Brodix, RR 180, ST, (WPSY, T1, T1X, 8, 8 Pro, 10, 10X, 11, 11X, Standard & Raised Runner)
• Dart Iron Eagle 165cc thru 230cc, Race Series 220cc, Pro 1 200cc thru 230cc
• Canfield 23-500 – 23 Degree, 23-600 – 23 Degree
• Trick Flow – 23 Degree
• GMPP 23-Deg Fast Burn Heads, # 12467713, Bowtie Std & Raised #10051101, 12480034
• World Products S/R Torquer, Sportsman II 200 cc Iron & Alum
• World Products Motown 205 cc & 220 cc Iron & Alum
• Pro Top Line Pro 23 Degree Iron & Alum Std & Raised Runner –215, 222, 256, 222, 256cc
• Pro Top Line 23 Degree Pro Lightning 180, 200, 223, 228, 242, 235cc Iron & Alum

Pro Top Line is now RHS and they have some nice Raise Runner heads.

The highlighted ones would be the best ones but they are not cheap. I've also had some head porters say that the All Pro stuff moves wind but is hard to make power with when you get the flow out of them.

Bret

 

ALl Pro stuff is great along with some of the stuff Weld Tech and Edelbrock/Chapman can set you up with.

 

sorry, I didn't have the head list, but thank you for posting the list. This will help a little bit more.. I was hoping to be around $3000 on the heads. I guess it that isn't enough $$$$ i will just keep saving money into the season until I can afford a competitive head. This might also help, my goal for the car is 8.99 or better. I know the et has a lot more to do with it than just the motor, but I'm going to be working on the chassis over the winter and hopefully I will be able to have everything in place for it to just need a power house.

 

I have had wonderfull experiance with the pro-topline/compcams/RHS heads...They are inexpensive and have great ports right out of the box. The world products heads suck, but because they have an EO number and one of the local race classes specs that head for the build I end up using it.

 

This is a tall task to take on, but go for it.

There are guys with the same rules but NA going for your goal with 440cube motors (Booze Brothers with a Kuntz & Co motor) but it ain't cheap.

I would fill out this form and see how much it is going to cost....
http://www.cferacing.com/cfe_dart_09.htm

And then call up Weld Tech and ask them about these...

http://www.weldtech.com/products/Jones_AP23.html
http://www.weldtech.com/products/Jones_AP22.html

Either way Larry is right about the price if it's going to spin some RPM and you are going to throw lift at it.

If I was doing N2O I would spend a lot on the headers if you are going to spin some RPM because there is a good amount of power in that area if you want to spin the thing.

If it was me I still wouldn't want to do this with a LT1 block unless there was a lot of fill in it.

I could do this class with a LS1 but it would still take some coin.... it does sound like a fun class.

Bret

 

Yea ya can look at about $14,000 in a top end.That's intake,heads,headers,cam,lifters,rockers NO fuel system or TB. That is if ya want to make the Hp it takes to win and do it on a consistent basis. Ya can spend a lot less and go have "fun" but how much fun is being put on the trailer every 1st round. That ain't fun and it gets VERY expensive to show up make 2-3 passes and go home without even getting to run completively. That takes it's toll on your pocketbook and mind.

 

I like that class.... too bad there are not more like it. It's close to Vortec Extreme street but if you run 8.9's in that you go home first round. You gotta be in the 8.4's to have a chance.

I would step down to something like the Car Craft Street Race rules, thats only low 9's and probably closer to your budget.

Bret

 

It's a small class up here, and from what I have seen/heard, a 8.90 car would be competitive. I had figured it was going to cost some good coin to get there, but not $14k on the top half of the motor. I keep forgetting how much harder it is to get faster as you dip down lower and lower et's. I don't have the funds to be real competitive in the class, but i'm just looking for something local to race in and i just don't like braket racing for some reason. I really like heads up classes. Thank you for all the help guys.

 

W351 Ford race block to 408 cubes (per 400" spec)
4v cleveland canted valve heads
FRPP 351c to 351W manifold

If you are running a max effort stock valve angle/port placement class, it's all about the ford symetrical port/20deg heads. (for small blocks) Chevy's can't match the flow...