Why is a Turbo better then a Blower?
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 82
Why is a Turbo better then a Blower?
Read a post below and from what I read people say that a turbo is better then a supercharger.
Just wanted to ask why is that so?
Turbo you get lag and you don't get that with a blower. You don't have to REV as high with a blower to get the power.
Are there any funny cars or top fuelers running turbos?? From what I have seen on TV I have just seen supercharged engines running 4sec, that does not mean that they don't exist.
Just wanted to ask why is that so?
Turbo you get lag and you don't get that with a blower. You don't have to REV as high with a blower to get the power.
Are there any funny cars or top fuelers running turbos?? From what I have seen on TV I have just seen supercharged engines running 4sec, that does not mean that they don't exist.
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 672
From: New Jersey
Who ever said turbo was better?
It just depends on application, all turbos have lag, so SC is a must for funny cars and the such.
Guy I know built a 600HP LT1, he turbocharged and built the powerband so that by the time the turbo lag was gone, he needed the power, he had enough on the low end that he really didn't need any power from the turbo till mid-high rev range....
It just depends on application, all turbos have lag, so SC is a must for funny cars and the such.
Guy I know built a 600HP LT1, he turbocharged and built the powerband so that by the time the turbo lag was gone, he needed the power, he had enough on the low end that he really didn't need any power from the turbo till mid-high rev range....
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Joined: Mar 2000
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From: 51°N 114°W, 3500' elevation
They both have pros and cons.
turbo better than a blower? It doesn't need HP to operate I guess would be the biggest reason.
A top fuel car can produce 6000 hp from 500 CID. It takes 2000 hp just to spin the huge blower. Many top fuel/funny car etc are going away from the inefficient roots blower and are using a screw blower similar to a Whipple (Actually it's a real big whipple)
An engine is an air pump. The more air you can get into the cylinder, the more fuel can be burnt. The more fuel burnt, the more hp can be produced. Even turbos have their limits as to how much air they can force into the engine. They rely on exhaust gasses to power them. A blower can force a lot more air into the engine so it can produce more power.
That's not saying twin or quad turbos can't produce a lot of power but it takes more effort to do it compared to a blower.
It also looks better having that blower sticking out of the hood
turbo better than a blower? It doesn't need HP to operate I guess would be the biggest reason.
A top fuel car can produce 6000 hp from 500 CID. It takes 2000 hp just to spin the huge blower. Many top fuel/funny car etc are going away from the inefficient roots blower and are using a screw blower similar to a Whipple (Actually it's a real big whipple)
An engine is an air pump. The more air you can get into the cylinder, the more fuel can be burnt. The more fuel burnt, the more hp can be produced. Even turbos have their limits as to how much air they can force into the engine. They rely on exhaust gasses to power them. A blower can force a lot more air into the engine so it can produce more power.
That's not saying twin or quad turbos can't produce a lot of power but it takes more effort to do it compared to a blower.
It also looks better having that blower sticking out of the hood
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 42
Tubo lag on a V8 is minimal, it's not like a small engine with a large turbo waiting until 4-5000 RPM for full boost, you're looking at 2-3000 depending on your setup, obviusly it could be higher if you built it right. Turbos have BETTER powerbands then Centrifugal SC's due to not having to rev for the power (turbos dont need RPM for power, they need exhaust gas flow which you've got plenty of, load is the key thing)
They'll never be as responsive as a roots or twin screw SC so if thats what you need, you should go for a blower, they both have good and bad points, just have to decide which one is for you.
They'll never be as responsive as a roots or twin screw SC so if thats what you need, you should go for a blower, they both have good and bad points, just have to decide which one is for you.
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 52
From: California
The big radial aircraft engines of the past used centrifugal superchargers, some driven from a 2-speed gearbox (low or high blower options). Of course, those engines ran for extended periods at constant throttle settings.
How about turbo-compounding? That's where you run the exhaust gases through a power recovery turbine which then couples the power back into the crankshaft. Supposedly good for a 20% power recovery. The three PRT's on the old Wright R3350TC added nearly 200 HP each.
The problems with any turbine in the exhaust is heat-retention, exhaust flow restriction and reliability issues.
How about turbo-compounding? That's where you run the exhaust gases through a power recovery turbine which then couples the power back into the crankshaft. Supposedly good for a 20% power recovery. The three PRT's on the old Wright R3350TC added nearly 200 HP each.
The problems with any turbine in the exhaust is heat-retention, exhaust flow restriction and reliability issues.
Eternal Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,064
From: Warren / Mi
The reason people say a turbo is better is like was said it runs off exhaust gases. There is less wear on the engine and bottom end. The supercharger runs off the crank and causes more wear and pressure to the bottom end of the engine. It takes less HP to run a turbo than it does to run a supercharger. The reason being you are pulling the supercharger with the crankshaft. The turbo is pushing the air with the exhaust. The turbo has less drag on the engine. Turbo lag is very little now compaired to the days of the GN set ups. You have to remember that was 15 years ago. I ran a fuel system shop for several years and can tell you first hand a engine if set up correctly for the street/strip will last longer with a turbo than a supercharger. A supercharge engine is going to go at some point. The supercharger creats more heat in the piston cylinder than and turbo ie broken rings. If you make 3 or 4 runs back to back with a supercharger you will break the rings on the pistons. That is why you see the guys take long waits between runs. It is not a matter of if the supercharged engine is going to fail but when. The guys in Motown Muscle car club have gone from superchargers to turbos because they have blown engines. There is a guy with a twin turbo in the club in the high 9 with turbos. You may have seen the vid of him racing the sports bike on the highway. Just a little history on why the turbo is better on a street/strip car. If it is just a track car then supercharge it.
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Joined: Jul 2000
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From: Norfolk, VA. USA
Originally posted by Chris Ja
The supercharger creats more heat in the piston cylinder than and turbo ie broken rings. If you make 3 or 4 runs back to back with a supercharger you will break the rings on the pistons. That is why you see the guys take long waits between runs.
The supercharger creats more heat in the piston cylinder than and turbo ie broken rings. If you make 3 or 4 runs back to back with a supercharger you will break the rings on the pistons. That is why you see the guys take long waits between runs.
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Joined: Feb 1999
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From: Springfield,OH. U.S.A.
A turbo is a vitually parisitic free power adder, unlike a Supercharger that the engine must phisically turn.
And a turbo is not limited by the engine rpm which at some point the supercharger fails to be able to add boost to the incoming air.
Lag is mostly a problem of using a turbo too large for the application, causing the engine to have to rev higher than optimal to spin the turbo fast enough to create boost.
A supercharger, on the other hand turns as soon as the crank turns, and immediately starts creating boost under a load.
A supercharger is best on a street driven car b/c of the relatively low operating speeds. And is simpler and most cost effective for street or racing.
BUT, a properly set up turbo can make BIG power in racing or street/strip. But usually requires a lot of exhaust/intake fabrication in which=$$$ also on the street or racing, unless the car already had one. Like the Buick Turbo Regals, that only require some cheap mods to get some serious power!
I recently seen some serious drag racers switching into twin turbos from superchargers, and winning!
And a turbo is not limited by the engine rpm which at some point the supercharger fails to be able to add boost to the incoming air.
Lag is mostly a problem of using a turbo too large for the application, causing the engine to have to rev higher than optimal to spin the turbo fast enough to create boost.
A supercharger, on the other hand turns as soon as the crank turns, and immediately starts creating boost under a load.
A supercharger is best on a street driven car b/c of the relatively low operating speeds. And is simpler and most cost effective for street or racing.
BUT, a properly set up turbo can make BIG power in racing or street/strip. But usually requires a lot of exhaust/intake fabrication in which=$$$ also on the street or racing, unless the car already had one. Like the Buick Turbo Regals, that only require some cheap mods to get some serious power!
I recently seen some serious drag racers switching into twin turbos from superchargers, and winning!
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,064
From: Warren / Mi
I don't know of anyone using a supercharger for road racing. I would call ATI or some other supercharger company and see how they would tell you to do it. I know from many years of drag racing and seeing guys blow there engines that it is not what I would do. We had several guys in our club blow engines with superchargers. When we did a tear down it was caused by the rings breaking. The same cars now have Turbos and they are not having the same problems.
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 197
From: ponoka
Umm k some of you are dumb and are shoveling so much **** it isn't even funny...
1st off turbos are better for the street... a supercharger is best for short bursts such as the drag strip... where as a turbo can be run all the time
2nd turbos do cause a slight loss in power due to having to reroute the exhaust
3rd lag in turbos has been reduced significantly by the 2 stage turbo... like 2 turbos in 1 (a little turbo with little lag and little boost and a larger turbo that lags but gives a bigger boost) By boost i do not mean like Nitrous I mean a gradule increse which then stays on the whole time the engine is at that rpm.
4th blowers are NOT ugly... Who wouldn't love a blower sticking out of their car
5th Blowers are not at their limits... There are constant improvments occuring in both blowers and turbos... me not dealing with them I'm not sure what but there is...
Thats about all I can tell you... If anyone says that I am wrong.. YOu are wrong because I am going by what I know as facts.... YES #4 is a fact
1st off turbos are better for the street... a supercharger is best for short bursts such as the drag strip... where as a turbo can be run all the time
2nd turbos do cause a slight loss in power due to having to reroute the exhaust
3rd lag in turbos has been reduced significantly by the 2 stage turbo... like 2 turbos in 1 (a little turbo with little lag and little boost and a larger turbo that lags but gives a bigger boost) By boost i do not mean like Nitrous I mean a gradule increse which then stays on the whole time the engine is at that rpm.
4th blowers are NOT ugly... Who wouldn't love a blower sticking out of their car
5th Blowers are not at their limits... There are constant improvments occuring in both blowers and turbos... me not dealing with them I'm not sure what but there is...
Thats about all I can tell you... If anyone says that I am wrong.. YOu are wrong because I am going by what I know as facts.... YES #4 is a fact
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 1,450
From: Belleville, IL
Supercharger:
PROS
boost climbs consistently all the way through the powerband
easier to route tubing
readily available in the aftermarket
CONS
increased pressure on crank snout
boost is set unless you change pullies
takes more power to run than a turbo
Turbocharger:
PROS
easier to change boost level
easier to DIY
turbos can be more efficient if built properly
CONS
increased IATs
difficult routing(twins especially)
easier to change boost level
As for lag, you can deal with that by changing components on the turbo. On a V8, even a 305, you'll see VERY little lag unless you're using a PT101 or a GT60, which are designed for Pro Outlaw cars and those crazy Mustang guys.
For instance...
http://www.limitengineering.com/gt-40-full.jpg
Look at the difference in pressure ratio between the 88mm GT40, 54 trim w/ a .72A/R and the 82mm GTO 50 trim w/ a .58 A/R. I've also found one of the best places to learn about turbos for our size of motors, is the Ford magazines.
They've been doing this for YEARS.
Also, the reason you don't see turbos in Top Fuel/Funny Cars is because they were banned back in the day. They're trying to slow down the cars these days, so not much of a chance of seeing a 700ci+ Donovan w/ a set of T88s on it.
PROS
boost climbs consistently all the way through the powerband
easier to route tubing
readily available in the aftermarket
CONS
increased pressure on crank snout
boost is set unless you change pullies
takes more power to run than a turbo
Turbocharger:
PROS
easier to change boost level
easier to DIY
turbos can be more efficient if built properly
CONS
increased IATs
difficult routing(twins especially)
easier to change boost level
As for lag, you can deal with that by changing components on the turbo. On a V8, even a 305, you'll see VERY little lag unless you're using a PT101 or a GT60, which are designed for Pro Outlaw cars and those crazy Mustang guys.
For instance...
http://www.limitengineering.com/gt-40-full.jpg
Look at the difference in pressure ratio between the 88mm GT40, 54 trim w/ a .72A/R and the 82mm GTO 50 trim w/ a .58 A/R. I've also found one of the best places to learn about turbos for our size of motors, is the Ford magazines.
They've been doing this for YEARS.Also, the reason you don't see turbos in Top Fuel/Funny Cars is because they were banned back in the day. They're trying to slow down the cars these days, so not much of a chance of seeing a 700ci+ Donovan w/ a set of T88s on it.