85_305

The Q-Jet is GREAT if you want to keep GREAT fuel efficiency. There is a guy on this board that can help you tune it (just do a search for the sentence "the last remaining q-jet tuner on earth" and you will find him..), he is AWESOME with them

anthony714

ok,for starters you want mileage and cheap.well then totally forget the big block period.besies if you notice big blocks arent the craze these days since you can get over 400 hp from a small block.so thats done
400,,ummmmmmmmmm well you want mileage,dont expect much ,actually a loss probably.also what kind of 400 you getting for free?a stock plain jane that needs rebuilding?then i wouldnt,its not worth it.forget throwing a stroker crank in it if your on a budget.oh yeah a crank,but dont forget machining the block cost,oh yeah new rods required and guess what new pistons..so a stroker out.
a 400 sbc ok if its a good base,but now you want to run your stock exhaust on there????probably not...so theres some cost facotrs involved here
lt1,wel if you can get it for 350 thats not bad,a better engine than the older sbcs and being fuel injected id go with that for power and mileage,that engine can pull down well over 20 mpg....swap shouldnt be too tough since the basic block design and dimensions are close to your 305.
but on another light,youneed to say how much you serioulsy have to put into this.if you got rust issues also thats not cheap...maybe say screw this car and look for a cleaner southern car or possibly a lower mileage ls1 4th gen??????????
dont get me wrong,i appreciate the art and the concept of building a car etc,but i hate seeing guys dumoing cash into what amounts to beaters only to se their cash run out on them and they either go unfinsihed or they continue to drive them in worse shape then when they started.we all know the kind of guys im talking about

84Camaro_L69

Me and my wife bought the car (for me) after lusting for one since I was a kid in the 80's ... I talked the guy down to $400 and that included him deliverying it to my house - 30 miles away. Some people wanted a Knight Rider clone, I wanted a 3rd Gen Z28.

The car WAS a rust bucket. When I bought the car it ran good, but needed minor mechanical repairs so I replaced the timing chain (it was very loose), the radiator (with a freakin' stock brass/copper one), all new coolant and vacuum hoses, K&N air filter for my dual snorkel intake, new tires, battery, alternator, belts, lights, headliner, T-Top seals, factory hubs (3 were missing), and a few other parts I'm forgetting.

A few months later we dove into body work ... it took all my income tax money, and then some but the floors were repaired, new quarters, new fender, replaced the hood, carpet, and completely changed the color of the car (door jams and all). (I really love my Z) A few freakin' months later my tranny went out. My buddy at the local trans shop hooked me up - really cheap, and he beefed up my 700R4 too. My exhaust is now popping leaks through rust holes, so before I use this years income tax to replace it, I want to ensure I buy a system for the engine that will be in the car in the future.

The car is garaged until the exhaust issue is fixed. When I say I want the cheap way out I mean cheap ... the money warden (wife) may let me have $1K to spend on everything! Exhaust, engine swap (if I do it).

I know, I know, I have spent way too much time and money on this car. I am Z Crazy. Help. Thanks.

84Camaro_L69

Thanks for the Last Remaining Q-Jet guys info.

The 400ci engine is already built for racing, complete with Holley carb, distributor, and collectors ... which I couldn't even dream about using. It was going to be dropped into either a Hobby Stock or Modified, but the rules changed, and the size limits are down to 358ci. He races at tracks hear in up-state NY (Watertown area). In those cars it average, I dunno know, between 4-8 mpg? I just wondered if street driving, and a Q-jet could make it hit 20mpg or better.

This summer, when gas prices hit $3.75/gal that opened my eyes, and has made me re-think (hundreds of times) which engine should I go with ... 190hp 305 (in stock trim - 190hp when it was new), 260hp LT1 (from '94-'96 Impala), or 400ci? I forgot to add that the LT1 came from a wrecked car, which shouldn't really matter. Also, the car is exempt from a lot of states emissions regs, beacuse it is a OEM carb'ed car ... no sniffer test. The Chevy dealer just asked to see the Cat, but all my stuff is still installed (A.I.R. pump and all) ... for now.

billsbird

84CamaroL69,

1) don't even consider a big block if your on a budget.
2) only concider the 400 if the compression is low enough for pump gas. Also make sure it doesn't have too big a cam in it. HP is nice but you want TQ for the street, not a 7000 RPM HP beast. I'm not familar with track engines so you might check this out. Remember when you go for smog they also do a visual so you might need the 305 smog stuff on the 400. And is the LT1 a legal smog swap?
3) I have some headers for a '84 Camaro, Hooker Long Tubes but they are really rusty. But they are 1 3/4" primaries with 3" collectors. You'd want to check to see if these work with whatever combo you pick. The primaries might be to big.
hope this helps ya, Bill

anthony714

dont do anythign right now hoss,,,lt1 will nickel and dime you and before you know it youll be justifing this cost aND THIS AND NEXT THING YOU KNOW YOUR 1000 DOLLAR BUDGET IS MORELIKE 2500.......IT ALL ADS UP FAST.HECK WHATS A DECENT EXHAUST SYSTEM GOING TO RUN YOU?CUOPLE HUNDRED MIN...
THE 400 ,SOUNDS WAY TO RADICAL FOR THE STREET.LIKE THE PREVIOUS POST STATED,IT PROBABLY WONT WORK WITH YOUR SET UP W/O CHANGING MORE PARTS WHICH WILL KILL THE BUDGET.
MIGHT WANT TO JUST LOOK AT A MILD 350 LONG BLOCK,ALREADY REBUILT,SAY 350-400 HP.DROP IT IN AND JUST ENJOY CRUISING...THATS PROBABLY GOING TO GET YOU CLOSE TO YOUR BUDGET.

anthony714

camaro,i aint preaching here bu tthink about what you want to do here,you got a solid right already,get a rebuilt 350 and enjoy.forget all this other crap.based on your earlier post you have a wife and kid)s) who im sure would rather find a better use of the money than dumping it into a car that they get nothing out of.i mean you already blew last years income tax check on it so is it fair to dump this years check? imean i hope and i really mean it i hope that the family comes first befor eany car,regardless of what it is or "how much it means" to someone.the familty should come first.
if its speed your looking fo rforget it.enjoy what you have and the rumble of a v8.rememebr theres always always someone faster than you and youll never be the fastest regardless of how much u try.so knowing that what try to go faster than your budget allows???say you run 14.2 right now,is a 13.8 going to feel that much difference or make a whle heck of a lot of difference in your life?? lets think here boys.
i have nothing against building up a car,heck im doing it from the ground up but the difference here is my budget allows for it where as yours does not seem to allow for it right now and we need to keep things in perspective and prioritize things.......
you aint doing any of those swaps for under 1000,and the 400,if you get more than 10 mpg with it the way it sits right now your a miracle worker.look for a nice rebuilt 350 or a 83 stroker with a cast crank.no forged crank needed...find a nice used header and exhaust and be happy ,even this will run you 1500..
i know theres guys going to respond,i dropped a 454 in for 250 bucks...ok right...........you get what you pay for

84Camaro_L69

You are probably right about the cost. The whole thing started from my cat, intermediate pipe, and muffler all needing to be replaced, and it just kept growing from there ... my in-laws and buddies are all offering more muscle, and the idea of smoking tires and that took over my reality. Not to mention adding alot of power would keep my wifes hands of the steering wheel. She likes to take over my sporty cars, and leave me with the "family car."

So where do I go from here? I guess I will shop around for a universal SBC exhaust ... rated up to 350hp? One that will fit my L69 and also Gen 1-4? SBC so I will have options don the road. I've seen the Edelbrock headers, but the $300-400 price tag made me sick, ebay here I come ... and I've seen cats for $125, and cat-back systems for $200. Lastly, I guess the reasonable thing to do will be to save up for a 350ci engine that I can afford to build or buy.

Ultimately, the car is about to be our second "dependable" car, and weekend cruiser for the parents "fun time." Thanks. You know what's funny, you sound like my buddy in Nashville.

84Camaro_L69

The only question I have left is would it be worth while for me to buy the LT1, and replace the rings, seals, etc. myself, and change it over to a carb'ed motor?

ws6transam

Hi Anthony.

I have an '84 ex-L69 Trans Am, and before the Minirammed 385 went in this year, I ran my original L69 to a best of 14.04 @ 101 MPH, and it dynoed at 262 RWHP, which is about 308 HP at the crank. My total expenditure on the 305 was nine hundred bucks, not counting the exhaust.

Now, as for the race 400 engine, which is what I'd get:
1) The shortblock doesnt make the power. The heads and valvetrain make the power. Luckily a 400 bolts up to your 305 engine accessories and your rebuilt 700R4.

2) THe 400 also can run on your computer controlled Quadrajet.

3) If the engine has a sane compression ratio of 10.25:1 or less, you can put street manners back into it by pulling the cam and installing a street friendly cam, such as the Comp Cams XE254H. Or if you really want cheap, buy a Summit cam/lifter combo with 212 to 218 degrees of duration at .050", and a lobe separation angle of 110 or 112 degrees. That cam will give you lots of vacuum signal for the carb and improve the gas mileage.

4) Buy either a Hooker cat-back with Hooker headers, or else get the Hooker cat-back and some Edelbrock headers. All up, the exhaust will be $650 total, leaving you $150 for the cam swap. Now all you need (and you dont need it right away) is a good aftermarket manifold for some great torque. I think you might find one for $200, maybe cheaper if you buy a used one from the classifieds on this board. So, for $1000 you'll have your new motor that should idle good and make a bunch of torque (up to 5000 RPM) to have fun with.

That's what I'd do if I were you.

anthony714

your totally underestimating cost and i don tthink he wants t opiece an engine together slowly,i think he would rather be driving it asap.
you yourself said yours was 900 minus exhaust and you also said 650 for exhaust,well to me thats 1500,well above his budget.
ok,you want to drop this 400 in?what kinda power we talking now?400 horse maybe or close to it?rebuilt or not,if its just a stock rebuild you think the 700 r4 will hold up long?and lets nottalk about the pathetic 10 bolt under there.heck i broke a tooth of my stock ring with a stock worn out lg4 engine,so should he now upgrade the rear? a big *** motor aint no good if theres no power going to the ground.
i just want him to sit down and analize what he wants and really NEEDS,sur ewed all like 1000 hp z28s that idle at 750 and 25 mpg,but who can afford that? buy what youcan afford and make the most if if and enjoy the car for what it is.

ws6transam

Anthony, if the 400 is FREE, then it's free. My $900 included $460 in cylinder head work, plus a complete valvetrain, intake, and gasket set.

I see it thus:

400 engine: FREE
Cam, lifters, maybe less agressive springs: $210
oilpan, timing chain, intake gasket kit: $75
Exhaust & headers: $650

Reuse existing engine accessories, transmission, etcetera.

The cost comes to about $1000.

Oh, and BTW, I got 140,000 trouble-free miles out of my own 10-bolt. In fact, it just went the whole season behind my 11-second capable 396 RWHP T56 equipped minirammed 385. I tore the axle apart just the other night because of the 60-some quarter-mile passes(all at 112 MPH E/T and higher) , 17 autocross runs, and twenty minutes of high-speed road course action, and as far as I can tell, other than the crush washer that blew apart to cause excessive gear lash and a possible overheated outer bearing that brinneled up the axle shaft, there wasnt much wrong with it. The gear looks okay and probably would have survived another season like this one.

If your 10-bolt blew behind an LG4, then you had a faulty 10-bolt.

FWIW, I dont think that the 400 is a "magic bullet". It'll probably be a low 14 to high 13-second car, unless it's got some good flowing cylinder heads. However I dont think too many "free" 400s come with good flowing cylinder heads. I wouldn't sweat the axle quite yet. Your L69 Z28 came either with 3.42's or maybe even 3.73's. Remember, up until the last Camaro rolled off the line in 2002, nearly all F-bodies (except the 9-bolt folks) came with 10-bolt axles. 7 5/8 ring & pinion, every one, even with 320 HP LS1 engines and 6-speed transmissions. It's good to 250 RWHP as is, and to 400 RWHP with upgrades. Worry about it only when you start cutting a 1.6 second sixty-footer.

84Camaro_L69

Take a breath, this is a long one with lots of questions ...

You both have good points. I couldn't tell you how hard it was driven before I bought it. I have no idea on the condition of the rear-end gears. Except they work. I've only put a couple hundred miles on the car in the past two years. It has been sitting in my garage or in the driveway. It was only after my wife was in an accident, and my truck was totalled last winter that I started trying to get my car back on the road. Right now I'm tracing a battery draining problem, which I hope to solve very soon, and trying to plan an exhaust or complete engine build-up.

Here is what I want or will be doing with my car in the end:
1) daily driver (20+ mpg)
2) weekend cruiser (20+ mpg so I can drive to Syracuse and back on 1/2 a tank, and to Nashville, TN and back on 4 tanks)
3) nuts and bolts permitting - autocross car - serious contender
4) much much much later (15-20 years) show car; after I acquire an amatuer series race car (compete in nationals), and the Z can retire to #1 and #2.

I have no plans to drive the car during this winter, just being a realist, so I have some time. Yes, I would like 350-400RWHP, but I also want 20+mpg. Laughing - when my car was new that was a pipe dream. Boy times have changed.

When running the Q-Jet, do you really need the AIR system?
Does the car actually need the freakin' stove pipes that come out of the manifolds even if you change over to headers?
My nearest Chevy dealer, also an inspection station, tells me that I can remove everything, except the cat (which I would keep anyway), is he setting me up, or is he right? In my job I move every two-four years, so I will be moving soon. My original home, in TN, says the same thing. My car is too old to get the sniffer test, just a visual for the cat. I mention this cause I have a hot rod magazine where they built a 400+hp 383 in a '75 Camaro (named G/28), and after adding all the smog junk it only got 177RWHP and like 220RWHP after they fab'd an exhaust.

ws6transam

The 'smog junk' isnt going to hose down your power by THAT much. A 400+hp 383 that gets only 177 RWHP sounds as if it wasnt designed or sorted out correctly.

However, if you plan on moving around, be prepared to do some creative explaining if you toss out your EGR, AIR pump, heat stove, exaust crossover, and whatnot. That is all emissions related stuff that you need for a visual in most cases.

Now, GM used to offer a 350 H.O. retrofit that was 50-states emissions legal for retrofit into early third-gen cars that used all the L69 bits, and it was a 13.7 second package. That's 250 to 260 RWHP.

With an '84 L69 you are already blessed with most of that stuff on your car already. You have a good carb with the DR secondary rods. You have a decent computer with a decent spark curve. If you want a better one, I can send you a performance chip for that computer but you DAMN WELL better not throw it out if you decide to axe the CLCC carb! You need to send it back if it doesnt work for you. You also have a knock sensor on the engine that will assist the timing for use with all types of fuel. I almost forgot, you should have the rare and sought after dual-snorkle air cleaner assembly! If you pop out the activated charcoal ring from the inside of the air cleaner, and remove the two baffles from inside, your air cleaner will support a *lot* of clean air to the engine and should pass most all visual inspections.

If you get a new exhaust, get a new catylitic converter. Catco converters are $59 now, and as long as the engine is tuned well with a sane cam choice, it should survive. However beware of running pig-rich as it'll burn out the catylist rather quickly.

As for the 20+ MPG, if you keep the CLCC carb and let it run closed loop, you might hit 20 MPG but you probably wont. The best I ever got with my CLCC 305 was 22 MPG with my 3.73 gears. If you have the 3.42's I suppose the 400 might get that kind of mileage but realistically I would be surprised to see that mileage without putting in a lower ratio.

84Camaro_L69

Thanks. I guess the smog stuff will stay after all. I didn’t think the numbers were correct. That was a huge amount of parasitic loss. I guess they rushed to quickly to print. One thing that I was afraid of happening is if I did remove any part of my smog stuff, especially the AIR system, my check engine light would stay on forever. Anyway.

I have read about the H.O. 350 package. It did seem like a good deal. Crate engine, tranny mods, complete exhaust, computer, etc, $4,000.

HECK YEAH! I would love to increase better my spark curve. We need to talk offline! You know, I was about to “ebay” my L69 dual snorkel in favor of an open air element until I read a thread a few days ago that stated my current air cleaner lowers intake temps 20-40 degrees. Now I don’t have any plans to sell it. I did plan to “modify” the internal baffles, because it’s like you said, they block half the air way passage. Now from what I gather from your comments the L69 metering rods are more than adequate for any current or future mods and engine swaps? I don’t have to go to the salvage yards or looking at every website out there for new rods? Cool.

I have had a couple of buddies, non-Camaro owners, who changed their cats and failed the emissions test. I know that I do not have to take it, but just in case I do in the future, how do I know which cats will pass? Should I speak to Summit or Jegs about that question when I buy? Who sells the cheapest, yet good quality exhaust systems? I know carb’d cars have more freedom during the test, and I must mention that my buddies cars are fuel injected.

I cannot find my axle ratio on the housing or axle (lots of rust), but I know the autos came standard with 3.42, and I keep finding conflicting information from different websites on whether the 3.73 was an option for the autos. I did not see it on my glove box/center armrest/console when I checked a couple of years ago, but maybe I overlooked it. Where else will it be, besides the axle? Where on the axle should it be (driver side, passenger side, near brake distro box, on housing)?