speedingpenguin

What is the least expensive way to get into the low 13/high 12 second range (No nitrous) in a thirdgen while:
a) reliability...gotta be a daily driver
b) fuel economy...cant guzzel gas...gotta have overdrive, gotta be fuel injected
c) no MAJOR mods (no LT1, no LS1, at most an engine rebuild and SOMEwhat simple stuff like that....
?
I like the look and style (and lower insurance costs and room in the engine bay) of thirdgens, but like the fact that you can get a 6 speed with a 4th gen as well as more power....but i guess i'd be happy with an automatic thirdgen that gets low 13's w/ no nitrous, cause i'd be able to buy it sooner and stuff....
Thanks
-Chris

V8Rumble

I want to say that you can't get there (the low 13/high 12 second range (No nitrous)) from here (low costs), but I guess it depends on how hard you're willing to work at it. The following is based on you starting with a TPI car - if yours is TBI, you'll have to work harder/spend more.

I'm guessing that someone who's both creative & determined could find ways around the "low-buck" issue (hell, it happens a lot on the street!). Off the top of my head, I'd say that you could maybe scrounge up a decent old 400 SBC short-block, recondition it with a cast piston set, & then beg/borrow/steal enough $$$ for a decent set of heads that'll work with an HSR or LT1 intake... Based on the goal you've specified, I don't think that you'd need a cam that's really radical.

Borrow a buddy's laptop to help with the tuning, and study hard in order to learn how to burn your own PROMs without burning up anything else. If you've got an A4, you'll want a tranny cooler at the bare minimum, & if there's any way you can afford a stall converter, you'll be a lot happier. Myself personally, I'd be real nervous with a T-5 at this power level. Also, take it easy on the rear end until you can beef it up a bit, as they're not exactly on a par with the Ferd 9"...

The goal you have isn't too difficult, but you're going to have to spend some money...

OK, what did I miss?

(BTW, the "style" and "room in the engine bay" are the reasons that I prefer the third-gen platform. The 6-speed is a relatively easy bolt-in. )

AutoNewb

Really? I'd love a 6 speed on a third gen. I gotta agree there, I just think the third gen is much closer looking to the old american muscle heritage than the 4th and 5th gens are. (5th gen body style...what were they thinking?) plus, the idea of american muscle is a cheap street rod...and thats what you got with a third gen...theyre affordable, powerful, good looking, cheep to mod, all the good stuff.

I'd like to hear more on how one bolts a 6 speed on a 350. whats the gear ratio come out to?

V8Rumble

Well, the final gear ratio you wind up with depends on which gearset is in the T-56 you get. What I've heard (and the way that I'm planning on doing it) is that first gear isn't as "deep" as it is in the A4 tranny, so when you install the 6-speed, it actually feels like you've lost some low-end power. The fix for that is to go with deeper rear gears - from what I've heard, the gears with a 3.73 to 4.10 ratio seem to work pretty well on the street.

The other part of your question is a lot easier to answer

Hope this helps.

nape

You just eliminated the easiest ways, but cam/LT1 intake/mid-length or long tube headers with a 2800-3400 lockup converter on a tire ought to get it done to go low 13s. Add some AFR heads break into the 12s. Then you have to worry about breaking the rear though.

Won't "guzzle" gas as long as you get to a speed where the converter can lock up. Probably get something like 12-15 in town depending on your driving habits.

Torkman15

Yup Good answer, I agree 100%. Also taking grandmas A4 and putting it in a performance car is just wrong.

speedingpenguin

ok......
so lets say I had 3k to spend on modifications.....assuming i've got a 350/auto TPI allready.....

What does it take to break the rear end, and how can you beef it up so it DOESNT break?

Bad AZz Z28

If you want to get their dirt cheap and without nitrous, any 305 is automatically ruled out. You either need to get one with a 350 or do the swap.

Next, you either need a 4l60/700r4, or need to swap in a T56. The T5 may last for a bit, but it wont like what you are up to.

Next, atleast get some vortec heads, a hotcam kit and some headers.

Finally, take alittle weight off and put alittle drag radial under it.

That should get you there.

Rear end CAN NOT BE BEEFED UP. Period. Especially with a manual tranny. It isnt suitable for a go kart much less a performance car. Spend hundreds on TA covers and beefed up axles and posis and watch it **** them out with reckless abandon. Best bet is to hide behind your automatic and dont put too much traction to it, you arent asking to go real fast so a 10 bolt behind an auto will live for a decent amount of time.


Edit:

Given the 3k and the 350/auto combo you mention:
-decent heads
-decent cam/valvetrain
-convertor
-drag radials
-weight reduction

That should have no problem with your goals

Marc 85Z28

The only revision I'd like to make to the above suggestions is about the heads. While Vortec's are nice, the complete swap for a TPI is expensive, which contradicts not only the intent of the buildup, but the head's appeal in the first place (affordable performance). If you already have a TPI 350, the L98 heads on it respond well to porting. Not only will ported L98 heads get you the performance you're looking for, in addition to the other items, but it will cost hundreds less.

So basically, ported stock L98 heads, a LT4 Hotcam, full exhaust, slightly looser converter (Vette or S10 2200-2400 converter will work well), and sticky tires should do it. Even the stock TPI setup will flow enough to support a high 12 second pass. A larger base and runners will help, but is not necessary. I've seen stone stock TPI systems feed high 11 second cars.

speedingpenguin

Hmm.....Well, I'm gonna assume that the engine will need a rebuild, so lets say 3000 bucks to spend on parts and stuff, we'll take what....500-600 bucks away from that to rebuild it......port the stock heads, put in a larger cam, a higher stall torque converter, shift kit, some nice tires....headers, exhaust, chip....LT1 intake converted?...leftover money for suspension stuff? (Springs, shocks, SFC's...).....think that'd do it? if its like 13.5, i'd say fine, and just buy a 600 dollar nitrous kit.....just run like a 100 shot at the track and be happy? I dont have the car yet, and am still sorta torn between an LT1 4th gen and a thirdgen......and although slower, i think i'm gonna end up going with the 3rd gen anyway......
hmm...

BTW what sorta power can a 700R4 hold up to before you need to start building it up?

PyRo9862

5th gen

S. Holley

I order to save some cash the easy way out with your 350 is to kill the computer or fuel injection....yeah your milage will suffer but your wallet will not for speed parts.

If you have a decent 350 and it does not smoke...DON't build it.... Just use the short block... besides a loose motors runs better on the track.

Invest in a good cam... Something larger than a hotcam if you go with a STALL which I highly recommend for a auto car. (that is what you want for drag racing)

Invest in a good set of heads FAST BURN would be nice... that eats a 1/3 of your cash... if not Vortec is cheaper

3000 stall conveter 300.00 dayco (cheap and works)

headman headers 125.00

vortec heads 500.00 BETTER FAST BURN 1200.00

comp cam hyd. kit 150.00

650 DP carb 300.00

air gap manifold 200.00

at least a 3.42 rear

kill the computer and go with a HEI distributor

loose some weight on the car....

3K and get you low 13s.... get some traction and suspension mods... drivable HIgh 12s

FruityOne

While I know you mentioned nothing major, for the money you say you are willing to spend, heads/cam is going to be JUST as involved as dropping a LT1 in, if not MORE involved.

A $3,000 budget is PLENTY enough to drop a LT1/T56 combo into the car with bolt-ons. And with the harnesses available its as plug as play as you can get! That'll net low 13's easy.

One of your other options (which is cool cause it hasn't become common yet) is to have someone weld the coolant ports on a set of LT1 heads shut, tap the back of the LT1 intake for cooling ports, and machine it for a distributor. If go this route, you can essentially have a LT1 motor without dropping an LT1 in! TPI_Roc on thirdgen.org has done the modification , and he had pictures of it as well. I just don't know where they are.

S. Holley

http://www.lt1intake.com/services.htm

I think this the link you are looking for?

Nice setup but you still spend more money with other mods to get your goal.

I think a straight drop in of a LT1/T56 you will spend more than my combo... and will not run as fast. Just my .02

factory LT-1s dyno about 245 RWHP with bolt ons (headers 10 -15 more, TB, Roller rockers, free mods...you may get to a 270-275 RWHP) but that is more cash again...

especailly if he all ready has a decent 350 in the car.

speedingpenguin

okay....dont wanna swap to carb or anything....
the car i'm buying is an 88 IROC w/ rebuilt 350 with like 4k miles on the engine....so i shouldnt have to worry bout that....
Is the LT1 intake a good mod? I dont wanna spend 1k on a stealth ram or super ram or anything, and if i can get an LT1 intake for the TPI engine and it will perform just as well for the power i'm aiming for, it's probably worth it, right?

Is it worth spending 800-900 bucks on a set of new heads? (Dart? Trick Flow?) Is just porting/polishing the L98 heads good? Vortec heads wont work with a tpi or lt1 intake?

Thanks,
-Chris