CamaroStylin

oh, and the money situation. Im trying to save as much money as possible! this is a budget install. I dont plan on doing it any time soon though, so its not like im going to be scraping parts and building it in a month. I need to find a definate setup and then start piecing the parts together as they become available (or the money comes my way). i currently work for 8 dollars an hour training for my new job, and I wont start making the big bucks until probably the end of the year when my training is complete.

just a ball park range... i'd like to get the engine itself (not the harness or computer) built for about 3000 - 4000 dollars if possible. the heads seem to be the biggest expense, so i was thinking of just machining them in the shop at my school. we are able to expand take and exhaust ports and port and polish. you guys think I could cut some costs there and use the stock heads after modification?

thanks again

ZWILD1

Magazine '350's" making 450hp to 500 hp seems so prolific, that you'd think they're easy to build. And they are if all you want is a dyno mule. If you can live without a ps pump, a/c compressor and an alternator, you're on your way. If you can live with minimal (or no) exhaust behind the dyno headers, don't mind an engine that has poor part-throttle drivability and lives on the bleeding-edge of detonation, you can 'make the number'.

But tune those dyno-queens for an enjoyable daily driver (i.e., no Vic Jrs. topped by a Dominator) and 400 hp will seem good. Tune it for a narrow-band ecm and near-stock TPI intake, and 375 hp will seem great.

TPI was designed for a low-revving 305, that had to meet ever stricter fuel-economy and emissions guidelines. When Chevy slapped it on a 350, they made no adjustments for the increased displacement, nor had any thoughts about making power beyond 4500 rpm. Aftermarket parts will help some, but if you're really serious about making 400 rwhp, you need to start thinking about alternative methods of EFI induction.

Then we get to the factory heads. Stock L98 heads will stall at about 0.450" valve lift and around 198 cfm. Out of the box Iron Eagles or cnc'ed AFR 180's will stall above 0.500" lift and flow between 250 - 260 cfm (@ 0.500" valve lift). You could spend $800 for a set of heavily-worked L98's and still be short of the IE's or AFR's. Fully assembled (max 0.550" valve lift) IE's will cost around $800, if you want to assemble them yourself they can be had for $290 per bare head. If you're using them to replace cast-iron L98's make sure to order a 64 cc chamber and straight-plug castings.

Learning to tune the factory ecm takes some time, but is a lot cheaper than going through a number of 'tuner' chips to get it dialled-in. The major limitations of the factory 'puter are:
- analog inputs (no FM MAF's)
- 8-bit addressing ('85 - '89)
- will not work with wide-band O2 sensors

Exhaust choices will will generate a lot of debate. My IROC (365 rwhp @ 4900 rpm) has SLP headers, custom 3.5" 2-1-2 center-section, feeding into a 3" 1 in/2 out Borla on the driver's side and 3" plated (1.5" orifice) twin tips on the other side. It's more than this motor really needs, but it has the sound and the look I was after.

All of the above is, of course, based only on my experience. Other's will have a different base of experience and their opinions will vary from mine. And I respect their right to disagree with me. I'm just trying to move you towards realistic choices (based on my experience) for achieving your stated goals.

ZWILD1

In terms of block prep, magna-fluxing is not an option. This method of NDT can only detect defects on visible surfaces. So the internal passages that are likely cracked cannot be checked by this method. Further, non-ferrous parts (pistons, aluminum heads, etc) cannot be checked by this method.

Begin by having the block thoroughly cleaned (hot-tanking is one good method). Then have the mains align-bored. With the mains straight and consistent, have the deck and cylinder bores aligned with the mains. Make sure the shop uses proper fixtures for these alignments (most do). Next, have the cylinders honed to the final bore and finish, and have deck height brought down to the desired depth. Blind-tap all threads and finally, have the block thorougly cleaned,... again. A lot of shops have blocks already prepped, and all you need to do is pay them for the machine work and trade-in your old core.

Another option is to buy a new block. Summit sells new GM 350 4-bolt blocks for around $600. This can save some time and effort, as these blocks need very little prep before use.

menlatin

here's what i would do. If you dont feel like building youre own motor then get a ZZ4 HO shotblock. Its got a forged crank, forged rods and decent hyper pistons for $2000. Or you can build your own all forged (4340 crank, rods, srp pistons) motor for about the same considering the block doesn't cost more than $600 with normal machining and checking. Shouldn't cause i got my 4 bolt high nickel block for $450 from a Wayne Calvert, and he's EXPENSIVE. If you have the space, time, and tools i would definetly recommend buidling the motor yourself. Saved my self about $1000 doing it my self... although on the other hand , it did kill my GPA, but hey, lets jsut hope you're smarter than me.
Next, get stealth ram, some 200cc proaction heads (protopline) w/64 cc chambers for compression, do a light port clean up and work the exhuast just a little bit, comp XR276HR hyd roller cam, maybe some 1.6 scorpion roller rockers, some decent 1 5/8 header, and all the other normal crap that i dont feel like listing.
check out www.dynoflo.com for the crank/rods/pistons, heads, rockers etc. They have great deals on everything they have. Will save a ton over jegs/summit. You'll probably have to give them a call and talk with Steve for a little bit, cause they have other stuff thats not on their site.
As for trannie, the idea of a zf 6 speed would be cool, eaton posi, 3.73's, some moser street axles, and make sure you get a SOLID PINION BEARING SPACER. I know there was talk about it the other on the board, and it was labeled a "10 bolt saver".
So, yea, remember, patience is key. you dont want to rush this like i did and waste a bunch of money on parts that you wish you didnt because they suck. Ask questions questions question, and read atleast 3 or 4 books. It helps SOOO much. And you have us on the board. good luck!

edit : about getting a new bock, i've heard that it is better to ge t aused block because it has already been heated and cooled many times, and has stretched and shifted all that it is going to. I dont know if really an issue, but a friend that is going to SAM told me that.

EDIT: Sorry, the guys name is Scot, not steve.

ZWILD1

What your referring to is core shift. This is why I recommended getting the bores and the deck aligned, relative to known straight mains. On the other hand, a new block will be straight and should go 100,000+ miles before it need to be 'straightened'.

aklim

Tuner chips are not that expensive anymore. $400 can net you a good chip and later when you have to make changes, it is considerably cheaper. In any case, you are not making changes every day. I could go to someplace in MN where they will strap my car onto a dyno and tune it for about $400 and I can also have a output chart to see how much power I am making and where. For $350, I could get someone to burn me a chip and keep burning as long as I send them feedback till it is done. DIY will cost you $200 at least and I have a friend who had DFI (completely tuneable) and burnt up his motor. I would learn on a junk motor or someone elses motor but not my own.