NOS2006

I was asked the other night to, instead of buying a Christmas present for him, research a way to get 450-500 HP out of a late third-gen engine the cheapest and easiest way. I figured you guys were one of the best sources around to help with this. I've searched and found a few threads that match his interest over here, but I'm looking for a little bit more definite answer.

Here's a brief explanation. My dad has been looking for a '86 or '87-92 305 or 350 Camaro automatic with T-Tops since early summer. He'd like to completely restore one that he can find for cheap, but wants a significant amount of power from it as a weekend cruiser. He said that if he finds a 305, he'll bore it out to a 350 or 355 and go from there. Either way, it's more than likely going to be a 350 engine (is L98 the correct designation for this engine?) when he's done. And I'm pretty sure he wants to keep it naturally aspirated, so I believe the "Super Ram" (is that forced induction? I'm assuming it is without researching it) is out of the question.

So, if you guys can give me a nice little list of good exhaust, headers, heads, cam, intake, lifters, rockers, 'rods, springs, retainers, etc I'd definitely appreciate it.

In addition, if you could give a few basic rear suspension mods to put this to the ground, I'd appreciate that even more.

Thanks so much to whoever contributes!


P.S. I still do plan on helping him find and pay for this car, too, so please don't think I'm using you guys as a cheap scapegoat to save a few bucks for Christmas lol.

Wacky Tower

#1 Super ram is not forced induction it just a differnet plenum design.
#2 a 305 cannot be "bored" to a 350
Ill let some other people answer the other stuff
but check out www.thirdgen.org and do some searching there you get almost any answer you have. Make sure you search before posting because if you post on what certain people think is a stupid question or been covered a 100 times they will just tell you to search anyway

xpndbl3

no way will you EVER get 450-500 hp out of a tpi motor unless you spend big bucks on it. Especially naturally aspirated, forced induction with a supercharger or nitrous is doable but it'll take a ton of programming with the various chips as well. I would buy the car for the body and interior and swap to a 383 motor, stelath ram, super ram, mini ram, carb whatever you want and build from there. Now possibly 400hp could come out of a bunch of aftermarket TPI parts, but that's stretching it a bit. remember tpi motors run out of steam well before 5500 rpm so you can't build a high revving motor.

Or go carbed and I can build you tons of combos that way. Furthermore, at 450 hp the rear end and trans won't survive either.

2000GTP

450-500hp is alot to push out of a TPI motor N/A. It may be cheaper and easier just to ditch the TPI motor and go for some sort of crate motor whether it be a fuel injected or carbed setup. And yes, the L98 motor is the tuned port 350. As for some rear suspension ideas, lower control arms, relocation brackets,and a panhard rod are all pretty reasonably priced and will help with power transfer some. Your best traction mod though is going to be tires.

NOS2006

Well I thought the 305 and 350 were pretty much the same engine. I'm sorry for sounding dumb, but what's the difference between the two engines? Is it a larger crank? Oh, and my dad doesn't want a 383 stroker.

And can you give me a brief write-up or link to the Super Ram intake? Thank ya.

2000GTP

The 305 and 350 are pretty similar, but the main difference between the two is the bore and stroke of the motor accounting for the difference in cubic inches.

Wacky Tower

Try this http://www.goingfaster.com/spo/superram.html I didnt read it but it looked like it was informative lol

I have one I sorta needed it so I didnt choke my 406

Randy92Z

The 305 and 350 both have the exact same crank 3.48 stroke. The only difference between the two is the bore, 305 has a 3.73 inch bore (+ or - a few .01) and a 350 has a 4.00 inch bore. The blocks from the outside are identical.

Well if your old man dont want a 383, I think the best way to get to your goal of 450-500 hp will be with a supercharged 350. You'll need a L98 motor'ed Thirdgen car to start off with, pick up some aftermarket heads, cam and intake, some prom programming, and a good flowing exhaust (headers and a 3" catback system) should get you there. I myself have plans underway to up my current 430 hp 383, to 530 hp naturally asperated. (that means no supercharger or turbo)

NOS2006

Thanks for the response. However, why would he need to start out with the L98? It sounds to me like the 305 could be bored out about 0.27" with some bigger/better pistons and be a 350 just like that. Sorry for sounding ignorant, but I don't see why he would need to start with the 350... (unless L98 also designates the 305 which I doubt)

NOS2006

Okay, that site helps me out. However, it makes it sound like the SuperRam can only go on a carbureted engine. Isn't the 350 fuel-injected?

2000GTP

No, they are just using that as a selling point that you can convert your carbureted motor over to a modern fuel injected one. It is not just limited to carbureted motors only and yes the TPI and TBI motors are fuel injected.

Randy92Z

The bores on a 305 block are physically smaller, its not possible to bore the block out that much, theres just not enough material. I think you can only go, like .090 over on a 305 or a 350, but dont quote me on that though. An L98 is just a designation for TPI 350. You could get a 350 block out of any late 80's early 90's GM/GMC truck too. If you wanted to keep the one piece rear main and factory roller lifters that is.

teke184

what about an LSx swap....500hp at the crank is easy as a decent cam, and mild ported heads.

alot easier than poking and proding every last ounce of power out of a regular smallblock to make your goal.

not to mention it will run smooth and be reliable...and light with the alum block.

just a thought

Phantomfe3

theres alot of things you can do to get to 450-500 hp. some people stated before, its not very easy to get that much power out of a tpi setup, and expensive.

heres 1 suggestion

start with a 4 bolt 350, not that hard to find.
get a nice set of pistons and rings, hypereutectic will work, forged are better. .030" over is the most common size to go, so get .030" over pistons (4.030" bore)
have the machine shop clean up everything. if the 350 was running decent you probably wont need to touch the crank, but it wouldnt hurt. have them check and recondition the rods (you can also buy new rods but its not neccesary for 450-500 hp if thats all the power you want to make) do some work to the mains if needed, and get the shortblock all ready to go for you. make sure they check everything and fix anything that needs it, things like the straightness of the deck and magnafluxing the block

once you have the shortblock all done, pick out some heads. ive had good luck with the vortec heads, you can get a brand new pair for like $500. put another $500 into them and they are more than capable of 500 hp, but if you leave them the way they came from the box, dont expect greatness out of them. some things you would do to them:
spring pockets machined out for better springs
better springs, z28 springs are good price, but you can use whatever you want
valve guides machined down to accept larger cam profile (this is neccesary if you want to run a cam that would produce 500 hp)
pushrod holes enlarged
mild porting - not neccesary, but it would help alot. id say have it done if you can
same with getting bigger valves, the valves that come in the heads are capable of 500, but having bigger valves would sure help out alot

with that stuff you should be able to support 500 hp. you could get roller tipped rockers too, but theyd have to be self aligning. comp cams magnum roller ripped are a good set

pick out a good cam, new lifters, a nice set of pushrods. for 500 hp the cam should be around .540 lift on both sides and the duration should be around 230 @ .050". dont have to follow those numbers, they came right off the top of my head. whatever cam and rockers you choose, make sure you let the machine shop know how big of lift you are running, so they can do the guides accordingly.. same with the springs, keep your lift in mind when you buy those to make sure the spring can support it. keep in mind the cam is the heart of your power. you could have the biggest baddest engine in the world, but if your only running a cam with .300 lift and barely any duration, its not gonna make as much power as it would with a bigger cam. so choose your cam wisely

with that you have a pretty nice base for 500 hp, for a decent price too. keep in mind any way you go about it, 500hp is not gonna be cheap, unless you use nitrous.

from there, get a decent oil pump, choose your intake. an intake system is completely up to you. the easiest way would probably to go carbed. find a nice intake manifold, whatever butters your bread, then slap a nice carb on top. im not a fan of edelbrocks, so i would suggest the good ol holley 750 double pumper. its been proven to work, and should support 500 hp, and it wont be hard to find someone who knows how to tune it.

there you go. if i had to build a 500 hp engine thats how id go about doing it.

mdacton

does he understand how much power 500h.p. really is?
If thats what your heart is set on...buy a crate motor and the bigger the better for n/a you can get a 434 pretty cheap vs. the price of buiolding anything