How do you figure that? The smaller bore motor will have more water around the cylinders compared to a bigger bore motor where more of the volume is empty space in the cylinder. The rotating assembly of a typical 350 should be very close in weight to a 305, it just has pistons that are .264 larger and that's not much weight diff with a mostly hollow aluminum piston, much less than the diff between air and water anyway, so in theory the 305 would actually be heavier.

Also, the cost of rebuilding a JY 350 wouldn't be too bad, as long as it's in decent shape to begin with. Personally I would take the old 350 over the new 334 because it would be well worth the rebuild cost to have the 350's much better potential, IMHO.

 

First of the weight issue was aimed at anything bigger then 305 /350. Meaning 400 block remember the 427 mentioned?
And I still stand that there will be a few (read as very small) lbs different from a 305 to 350. And no you are not adding more water in the jackets for the 305 versus the 350 they both still have the same fill capacity for coolant.
The original light weight term used yes was aimed at the 305 but I think you get the idea. Also under your theory of the added coolant, there is no wayit would equal the weight of added cast iron. At 8 lbs a gallon for water I would begin to think the iron wouldn't take much. But thats neither here nor there as I stated what the term was aimed at.

 

You stated earlier in the thread that a stroked 305 weighs "a lot less" than a "bigger bore motor," not a tall deck, siamesed sbc with 427ci.

Since they have the same outer dimensions, if the 305 and 350 have the same fill capacity as you say, then the 305 must have way thicker cyl. walls (and more deck area for the smaller bore too) hence more cast iron and so it's still heavier. But really, they have similar wall thicknesses and what little more iron the 350 has in the walls is more than offset by the extra deck area on the 305. Same argument holds for a std deck 400 as a 350.

With that said, I don't see one advantage of a stroked 305 over a 350 or a regular 305 for that matter. The redline is already pitifully low on those motors and any money spent on it would be much better spent on heads/valvetrain components to make it actually breathe, rather than moving torque lower.

 

I am done I can see you are biased and thats fine but quit being blind as well.

 

Being biased?

You are the one who won't see the light here? The 305 is junk because of it's small, valve shrouding bore. It doesn't wiegh any less than a 350 or a 400. Stroking it is a bad idea, because for the money you could rebuild a 350.

It is not called bias it is called the truth, the same way as your thoughts are called delusional.

Martin

 

Try it speeled (spelled for the rest of us) right if you are going to even speel it it is disillusional.
No I was giving an option for consideration. He has already shoot down the 350 well before I came along. Which yes would be F^%$#ing A great but not his option to build. The 305 was. And for the money (1000 with parts from some of the great if not the greatest engine builders in the industry) add the fact it is balanced, and all you need is a gasket set, cam, lifters, and etc geee it is a hell of a bargain isn't it. Grab a cam meant for more torque and higher rpms along with a matched converter and watch her run.
I have an issue of either C.C or H.R that built the same thing and even dynoed it but I'd have to look for it. If I remember right it was a brute. Probably more so then mine. Either way here or there.............
The fastest way to make any power out of any motor is stroking. Why? it adds more cubes. That said dont you think in the beginning I would have also said grab a 350.
If you would read what was shown a few post's back maybe some light will enter that pathetic thing on your shoulders that acts as a hat rack.
So once again I say biased. Because if the combo was not any good do you think for one minute it would exist? Do you realize that many of these are used in the racing world? But then again it doen't matter to you because your stuck in the sand with head up your a$$.
And once again I will state it is a lightweight package. Think bout it.
Sure there are plenty of different options but he wants to build a 305 I gave him a legit idea and thats that. Drop it.
If I had the money right now I would do the 334-340 route but budget is tight and I myself can get a 86 350 already built for an exceptional cost so guess route I am taking.
Maybe when funds come around I will build what I mentioned because the block isn't going anywhere but out of the car.

 

It is a simple fact that a smaller bore motor has inherently less breathing ability than a larger bore motor for a given head design, and it is also a fact that adding cubes when airflow is severely restricted in the first place won't help anything.

The only people who say this are trying to make money by selling you a stroker kit.

The way to increase power is to move more air through the motor. If all you do is stroke the motor, all other parts being the same, it will make more low end torque and about the same hp at a lower RPM. To increase power you need to increase breathing ability.

People buy tornados, and yet it has been dyno proven that you lose a few hp with them. People buy $50 electric superchargers, do they work? Do you think for one minute that people can't make money selling useless things to people who don't know any better?

Once again, the 305 has .264 smaller dia. bores, so it has over 6 cubic inches more cast iron than a 350 just in the deck! (calculate 8 cylinders X .132" circle around the bore X pi X 3.8" circle circumference X ~.5" thick deck = 6.3ci) There's more yet at the base of the cylinder, plus the aforementioned added coolant.

 

No added coolant chevy ises the same as any other small block. Fill capacities are the same.


That all said and like stated earlier I been watching this thread intentively only because the same combo he has listed is one we run in our car which has a stock limiting factor. Unless some wise a$$ official tore every car down then would we be caught.
I run in a very strict bracket where block #'s and heads are checked for authenticity. If they are any rule breaks it is done so in the fact they are internal.

Have to say the combo described is a high winding bitch close to that of the 302 chevy not ford.
83 good luck and hope they dont get you down. peace.

 

Thanks.

 

A ford 302 is a 4" motor. What does it have to do with a 3.736" 305?

You really think that stroking an otherwise stock LB9 is the "fastest way to add power" to it? It goes without saying that there are MANY other, simpler mods to gain HP on any motor.

What does this have to do with anything? The restriction of a 305 is due to valve shrouding.

I brought them up to illustrate that just because something exists, doesn't mean it's any good.

So the additional space in the water jacket from the smaller bore is filled with... what? Regardless, he has yet to substantiate his claim that a 334 stroker is a light weight combo.

Interesting, what kind of heads are used?

I'm not trying to get anyone down. Just stating my viewpoint.

 

I miss typed spell accidentally, sorry. No it isn't disillusional, it is delusional, just like I used. Here, try this link: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=delusional

As opposed to this one:
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=disillusional

Good thing you tryed to make yourself look smart there.

Yeah, Keith Black Hypereutectic pistons are the single greatest pistons in the world. Do you believe yourself when you say stuff that stupid???

Because I care??? Is that where all your misinformation comes from? Reading comic books? I prefer my correct info that comes from hands on experience.


No it isn't. The fastest way to make more power is to flow more air. There is no denying that. You take a crappy, restricted engine and make it bigger, all you have is more displacement that you can't fill correctly. Sounds like you are going in the wrong direction to me. You still think people dislike the 305 because of its diminutive size don't you? IT IS NOT A 305'S SIZE THAT MAKES IT SUCK. Once again, a 302 Chevy or Ford, are both very good engines, that are smaller than a 305.

I read every post in this thread. None of the misinformation you spewed was of any consequence. Oh, and I don't wear hats.



Yes, it would exist, because we live in a capitalist society, and people are willing to take stupid peoples money for their own advancement. As for being used in the racing "WORLD", where??? I am involved in dirt track racing, figure 8 racing, demolition derbys, drag racing, and street racing. I have screwed together many engines, transmissions, and axles. Never once have I ever seen a stroked 305. To tell you the truth, I don't even know anyone that has rebuilt a 305. 350s and 400s are a dime a dozen here. I have put together a few stroked 350s and a couple destroked 400, but never bothered spending money on a 305. Most people are aware of their crappy, valve shrouding 3.746 bore.


My stuck what???

You really butchered this line, I had to make fun of it twice. I believe you were going for "Then again, it doesn't matter to you, because you have your head stuck in the sand" or "Then again, it doesn't matter to you, because you have your head stuck up you a$$." I have never seen the two statements mixed together, but maybe that is how you talk. Wouldn't surprise me any. Never start a sentence with "but" by the way.


You lose all credibility here (not that you had much . . . .) It doesn't way any noticeable amount less that any other SBC. Where are you geting this from??? You say it doesn't hold anymore coolant than a 350, of course it doesn't, not a noticeable amount. The same as it doesn't weigh a noticeable amount more or less than any other small block.

I tell you what. I don't have any 305 blocks laying around (I haul them away for scrap iron), but have several 350 blocks out in the shop. You want me to weigh a bre 350 block? I have several, maybe we can test the difference between one from the 70's, 80's, and 90's while were at it. Then you go find a bare 305 block and weigh it. Then everyone laughs at you.

No, he doesn't. He asked if it was worth building. We told him the truth. No it isn't. Especially if one is going to go through the work of rebuilding it. Then it definitely isn't. Why don't you drop your pipe dream about the glory of the stroked 305. If the pipe you are smoking this crap out of was as restricted as a 305, you wouldn't be nearly this high, and you would see what is wrong with a 305.



See, its cheaper to put a 350 in place of a 305 than to build it.

As for the block, scrap iron is bringing good money right noe, get rid of that boat anchor while you can.

Martin

 

Did anyone read what 91z says about this as well as 83?
As for biased I believe he may be correct on the theory.
Yes adding cubic inches does increase hp. If you was to do the mods after building a 305 then would it not be worth while could there be more ponies added to it?
That said I agree with stroking. I also agree with the stroked 305 but I have alot more into it then the crank kit. At one time I ran the crank kit alone and it ran alot different then then stock assembly did. I only had 30,000 on the build up of the 305 but I will say this My times did improve alot more but I ran into another problem. Traction.
As for heads I run a varying assortment. When track looks goood then I choose to run a set of darts. I have run edelbrock's vette aluminum and even a chessey set from the original 305.
I can wind out to about 6500 rpm and well I have dynoed motor once with the aforemnetioned vette heads and had a slip in my face of 348 hp @5200 and 410 #'s @ 3900 of torque at the rear baby. I have run the 1/4 and have nothing on this site to prove. That said I can easily stick to the track and keep in the 11's all day long sandbagging or move lower if I choose. Which at this point I am not. Hell not even bracket racing in the first place.
Though my combination will not be revealed as well I did my work in building MY motor. If you want the same results do yours.

As for lightweight I agree with 83 in only that if a 300 # guy sat next to a 150 # and began a drink fest. I believe you see my point now.

 

[82355 I miss typed spell accidentally, sorry. No it isn't disillusional, it is delusional, just like I used. Here, try this link: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=delusional

As opposed to this one:
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=disillusional



Good thing you tryed to make yourself look smart there.

zjr -- Wont argue this just want to say some one here needs prozac.


Yeah, Keith Black Hypereutectic pistons are the single greatest pistons in the world. Do you believe yourself when you say stuff that stupid???

zjr-- And you ole master care to enlighten us on a good brand? Especially one that is committed to providng matched sets? Dont know to many that really take their work at heart or that dedicated.


Because I care??? Is that where all your misinformation comes from? Reading comic books? I prefer my correct info that comes from hands on experience.

zjr-- Hmmm Comic books? Do you realize they have more money and experience then you? They are paid to play.
Also they get to do so on a unrestricted budget? Meaning that they can build test run dyno about anything they care to. Bet you cant.
Yes we know you love hands on experience dont you.



No it isn't. The fastest way to make more power is to flow more air. There is no denying that. You take a crappy, restricted engine and make it bigger, all you have is more displacement that you can't fill correctly. Sounds like you are going in the wrong direction to me. You still think people dislike the 305 because of its diminutive size don't you? IT IS NOT A 305'S SIZE THAT MAKES IT SUCK. Once again, a 302 Chevy or Ford, are both very good engines, that are smaller than a 305.

zjr-- At some point in time dont you think airflow can be acheived and well move from there?
I think it's stock size sucks or wouldn't have stroked it to begin with. Think about that.


I read every post in this thread. None of the misinformation you spewed was of any consequence. Oh, and I don't wear hats.

zjr-- Try one your bald spot is showing. misinformation huh? He stated a good build from a very reputable source. Even showed links who's misinformed?
And if you read so good read down a little and find the post reffered to on water jackets.



Yes, it would exist, because we live in a capitalist society, and people are willing to take stupid peoples money for their own advancement. As for being used in the racing "WORLD", where??? I am involved in dirt track racing, figure 8 racing, demolition derbys, drag racing, and street racing. I have screwed together many engines, transmissions, and axles. Never once have I ever seen a stroked 305. But I bet he strokes himself ALOT .

To tell you the truth, I don't even know anyone that has rebuilt a 305.

zjr-- Seems 82355 has very few friends and we see why right?

350s and 400s are a dime a dozen here. I have put together a few stroked 350s and a couple destroked 400, but never bothered spending money on a 305. Most people are aware of their crappy, valve shrouding 3.746 bore.

zjr-- Hey if they are only a dime a dozen I want 1200 dollars worth. By the way quick how many would that be?
Because they go for alot more then that here.

zjr-- Good for you sure everyone on this board has or will at some point. Does that make you an expert oh mighty one. Seeing you skipped the 305 build I guess he was right on being biased. Or was aiming at the easy route. Either way it dont matter you already said enough b.s as well to make a very clear case you know absolutely nothing about nothing unless valve shrouding is included in the statement.


My stuck what???
zjr-- A$$ I read it he even went on to say your head was too.



You really butchered this line, I had to make fun of it twice. I believe you were going for "Then again, it doesn't matter to you, because you have your head stuck in the sand" or "Then again, it doesn't matter to you, because you have your head stuck up you a$$." I have never seen the two statements mixed together, but maybe that is how you talk. Wouldn't surprise me any. Never start a sentence with "but" by the way.

zjr-- have to say you are quick yep he said it twice just to **** you off I bet.
I'll even bet that it was aimed at saying *** as well care to wager that?



You lose all credibility here (not that you had much . . . .)

Zjr-- Like yours counts. 83 Had to have some I seen a post in another club me and 83 belong to and well I am here to say hi. I have a stroked 305 and proud of it.

It doesn't way any noticeable amount less that any other SBC. Where are you geting this from??? You say it doesn't hold anymore coolant than a 350, of course it doesn't, not a noticeable amount.

zjr-- Can you read it was stated it must because of the water jacket being different then the 350?

The same as it doesn't weigh a noticeable amount more or less than any other small block.


I tell you what. I don't have any 305 blocks laying around (I haul them away for scrap iron), but have several 350 blocks out in the shop. You want me to weigh a bre 350 block? I have several, maybe we can test the difference between one from the 70's, 80's, and 90's while were at it. Then you go find a bare 305 block and weigh it. Then everyone laughs at you.
zjr--- hey I wanna play though we are only going to find a few #'s different if that.



No, he doesn't. He asked if it was worth building. We told him the truth.

zjr-- No you gave him your thoughts not the truth. The truth is in the eye of the beholder. That and the fact you even state you never and dont know anyone who has built a 305. 83 gave you the truth when he pointed out a stroked version but you dont like that . Even continue to hound the poor guy trying to pour your thoughts into his head hmmmmm.

No it isn't. Especially if one is going to go through the work of rebuilding it. Then it definitely isn't. Why don't you drop your pipe dream about the glory of the stroked 305. If the pipe you are smoking this crap out of was as restricted as a 305, you wouldn't be nearly this high, and you would see what is wrong with a 305.

zjr Once again your opinion not knowledge shows. If it did show instead of pushing your oversize ego and thoughts on what is perfect you would have accepted a thought passed instead of continuing.

zjr--What is worth building is anything that runs. Wanna meet me in texas or silver state? I attend yearly both events and am sure I could definitely prove you wrong on that thought. I will leave the 334 in the car.




See, its cheaper to put a 350 in place of a 305 than to build it.
zjr-- I'll even agree 83 did say that a few times already your point?

As for the block, scrap iron is bringing good money right noe, get rid of that boat anchor while you can.
scrap here aint worth **** and neither ( had to correct this) is any of your staements as of yet.

zjr-- You dont like a 305 stroked fine but I have proof in the pudding bud and do enjoy my motor so just lets say your walking a thin line here and be done with this.

I will say 83 brought up a combo that I happen to run and yes I have seen a few others running them as well. That is an under statement by the way.
That said maybe you might wanna run what you brung and I will do the same.

 

You didn't get it either huh? That doesn't surprise me. I will make a rebuttal to the rest of your (notice the correct use there) drivel later. I don't have time right now.

Martin

 

I don't recall anyone here ever claiming that a 305 can't make power, only that it isn't cost effective. Anything can make power, the real question is, how much do you want to spend? You'll spend more to get the same amount of power from a 305 as a 350. Period.

For the original poster of this thread, and anyone else for that matter, it would be better to get a cheap 350 block, bore it .020 over and get a 3" stroke crank and voila, a 305. He would get way better bang for the buck and he could still say "it's just a 305", and could still race in 5L classes if he so desired (not that that's too relevant.) Because the 302 exists, and 350's are dirt cheap, the only reason to ever build anything with a 305 block is to prove a point.

If you had used a 350 instead of a 305 stroker, you would simply make more power for less money. No matter how you paint it, in terms of cost, it is not worth it to build a 305 and that's the answer to the original poster's question. End of story.

FWIW I was the one who mentioned added coolant to demonstrate that 83's "light weight" claim cannot possibly be valid. The engines are within several pounds of one another. His claim is just not true.