Well if we are going off of the 3900lb SS and 4000lb Z28 as found in the post on this thread. Even the 430hp LS3 SS at 3900lb's is heavier than the GTO, GTR, 03-04 Cobra and about even with the 500 hp GT500.

 

I know. I just don't think it's all that bad. The Camaro doesn't compete with the GTR. The GTO and old Cobras are no longer available. That leaves the GT500. Yes, you get another 70hp with that, but you give up IRS, and possibly also some chassis rigidity (based on offhand comments in MT comparo with Challenger).

It's based on Zeta. When the Zeta Commodore was released in August 2006, there were articles in the Australian press about how much weight it had gained. Several items were listed. Among them was a more sophisticated IRS (about 25kg, or 55 pounds, IIRC). You'll also have stability control, more airbags, etc., in the Camaro (Mustang has only front). Maybe you don't care about that (I don't). But these items are becoming commonplace, and it would be hard to imagine a brand new 2010 Camaro without them.

So all this is a fairly long-winded justification for the weight.

Charlie's desired Alpha V8 may have sliced a couple of hundred pounds from the total, but I really doubt you'd save more than that without expensive lightweight materials or leaving off features that the mass market demands. Plus, the resulting car would be smaller -- probably with a tiny backseat, small trunk, etc. Maybe if you never actually want to carry adults in the back seat (adults do fit in my '02 Camaro for short rides), that would be better.

But I really don't think the Camaro is miss for the target market. You might argue that with today's $4.45 premium unleaded that they should be targeting the compact market featuring I4s and V6s. But you probably won't, since you're on this website.

 

So here's the thing. When the VE Commodore was introduced, Holden said that the new IRS added about 55 pounds to the weight of the car versus the simpler IRS in the previous version. In order for '25-50' to be true, the old VT-VZ IRS would have to be lighter than a solid axle. And you did assert this in the previous discussions.

But I'd have an easier time accepting that with something to back that up. I've seen others assert 100+ pounds for a strong, steel IRS. Even the old IRS had more parts than a solid axle, so I have a hard time seeing how it could be lighter.

Not that it matters in the end, since any Zeta-based Camaro would have the Zeta IRS, and the VE needed an IRS to be competitive in today's market, just like it needs to be quiet, have good safety features for both crash avoidance and survivability, etc.

 

more birdie talking here......

Z/28 posted up an 11.9@123mph. Then ran an 11.2@ undisclosed mph w/ a pulley and exhaust.

Also there's a "new" GN in the works. Still a V6 w/ a turbo. It might be a lightweight

 

I wonder what the Z/28 would run with traction, assuming nothing broke due to the power and weight of the car.

I'll believe the GN when I see it.

 

You don't know how many pounds a different architecture would save and neither do I. It's all speculation.

I'm not a vehicle architect. I'm just a guy on the internet who wanted to spend money on a Camaro or two. Whatever confluence of events brought us here - here we be. We could argue about rear seat room or the weight of the VZ IRS vs Zeta's. Whatever.
What this all boils down to for me is, that a two ton Camaro is not a product I'm in the market for.

BTW, the new '09 Mazda6 is larger than the previous car and IIRC is about 70 pounds lighter. So arguments that weight CANNOT be controlled affordably in today's environment are moot.

And Mazda's weight saving techniques are only the tip of the iceberg when compared to what we're about to see.

Here's what Peter Horbury had to say in AN today:

 

I don't have a subscription to read that article. But did he said anything about actually lowering weight on the Mustang? Or just about making it LOOK smaller. 'cause I read a larger excerpt somewhere else that implied they were just working on appearances.

As for the Mazda6...what? (I noted the IIRC...so it's not an attack.)

 

I'm at work now so I'll look up that Mazda6 stuff when I get some time.

As far as Horbury's comments, he was talking about even the appearance of a big bulky car, implies a 'gas guzzler' to the consumer. And of course the current MCE'd '10 Mustang will be several hundred pound lighter than the Camaro.

EDIT: Here's a quick one...

http://www.jdpower.com/autos/article...Mazda6-Preview

 

No offense to the G8, but my Mustang Bullitt was under 30k, and it considerably faster than the G8, something to the tune of 13.26 @ 105- stock... The guy I work with that has a G8 let me drive his... It's fun, but just not what I was expecting. The GXP on the other hand sounds like a winner in the performance segment, however they seem to also carry a hefty price tag.

 

Well I listed those cars because they are recent performance vehicles in our time that have been called porky. And if the rumor is true the Camaro will handly trump them all. I had an idea that the new Camaro would be heavier as cars are getting heavier because we all want our cake and eat it too. But I was thinking 3700-3800 or the weight of a 03-04 Cobra vert with similar power would be acceptable. Having driven one of those I felt it was heavy but had enough power and chassis tuning to make it work. As it stands now for all the extra grunt the LS3 has over the LS1 it will be just enough to pull a 3900lb Camaro to what a 3500lb '02 LS1 Camaro was doing 7 years prior. Not to mention all those close runs between LS1 Vettes and Camaros will probably be a thing of the past. I'll have a hard time believing a 3900lb LS3 Camaro will run close with a 3300lb LS3 Vette.


No I agree and I think the Camaro will be a hit in todays market. From the reaction of the focus group with the V6 manual it's gaoing to be a nice option in that market. I just get the feeling that in GM's eyes the V6 is now the leader and while great overall for the car the weight, cost, and fuel economy on the V8 has made it harder on us enthusiasts. For all 4 Camaro generations prior the V8 model was the one to have. That may change in the 5th Gen.

 

Tell me honestly, Is that a bad thing?

They're tuning the exhaust on the V6 so even it has a great sound, and whether or not one agrees, 300hp is a lot of power. If they make this V6 the poster-child of this generation of Camaro, it will ensure the longevity of the car as a whole.

Hell, give it a few years, and I'll bet they end up putting in a DI Turbo 6 making 400hp, and 28mpg. .....I can live with that.




Oh, btw...I still want the V8.

 

Any hint on where this is coming from? I just can't see GM testing a Z28 in any other form than OEM stock.

 

Unless they're testing components for the 2010 GMPP catalog. You've seen the huge book of parts available for the Ecotec haven't you?

 

I can't divulge my source. Well, I could... But I won't .

From what I understand there is video as well. But I don't think anyone outside of a "tight circle" will have access to that for the next few months.

 

Nice! In two posts you've given us more information than all of the insiders combined in the last year LOL.