Big Als Z

But there will be no money to really save, only money to gain.
The L76 will most likely be the standard V8 for Zeta sedans, since the LS3 will probably be the upper trim V8.
It would work the same for Camaro, just like it works for Challenger.
The engine is there, it will be already produced and designed for Zeta. It will be certified for the chassis. It would be a NO BRAINER!
It probably costs just as much to make a 3.6 DOHC as it would an L76. Its profit profit profit for GM.
How funny would it be that the "RS" V8 Camaro will be able to keep ahead of Mustang GT's, and thats without going to an LS3 or the top dog engine!!!
I would assume that Mustang will also offer multiple V8's, and the GT engine will be the base V8, while a Boss V8 making over 400hp is going to be available, on top of a GT500 replacement.

Dragoneye

not to dampen the mood, 'cause I agree 100%, Big Alz Z, but honestly, I have maybe a 10% interest in beating anybody at races. eventually, I may want to forge and boost, and all that crap. but all I want is a rumbling weekend cruiser. the L76 would fit that bill perfectly. especially since it's lower CR would allow the mild use of non-premium fuel....maybe.

The ONLY thing I don't like about the L76 is that it's not made in one of GM's US-based plants...but I can get over that.

RussStang

Here we go again. What costs are you referring too? You mentioned all of the same tired crap about bigger brakes, blah bla blah bla blah, but your entire stance on the arguement is flawed. Here is an idea. The L76 and the LS3 should weigh rougly the same. The vehicle's weight and weight distributions are unchanged. If GM slaps a set of awesome brakes on an L76 car, but then decided to go with the LS3, those same brakes would still stop the car the same awesome way. Shocking. Maybe GM might have to go with different tires, or maybe even slightly wider, but so what? That ain't gonna hike the price up enormously. The wheels don't need a wider diameter; that is just for gaudy show. What kind of rear does Ford use in the GT500? What kind of rear does Ford use in the Mustang GT? Pretty similiar pieces. I would bet the Camaro rear will be very similiar. The IRS will be developed to handle the top dog's brute force, and very similiar iterations of it will trickle down. What else does the car need? The M12 T56 in the GTO holds up pretty well, as well as the units in the Vettes. I bet that it would find it's way into the Camaro regardless of which engine goes into it, simply to bring the cost down on the transmission. Driveshaft? Never been a problem on the 4th gens, even with aftermarket power levels. It is a none issue. What other hypothetical stuff would add significant amounts of weight?

As I stated earlier, I simply believe you would like the 5th gen model hierarchy to follow a 3rd gen's, believing for whatever reason it would work in this day and age. Read this, no one has argued they are for a base LS3 car that costs over $30. They have argued they are for a base LS3 car coming in at the Mustang GT's pricepoint, something I believe totally that GM could do, and apparently is in the direction of doing.

RussStang

In this day and age, especially with what average sedans are doing, it would be a lagging engine, carrying around a heavy car. Plus, the Mustang GT is rumored to be coming in at 350hp in the next few years. 12hp isn't enough to trump the Mustang by, especially if GM could easily do more. What you are suggesting is to artificially hold potential value to the customer back. NO ONE on here has ever successfully concluded that horsepower killed anything, or is even a deterrent to the masses, so you chicken little crap about no mid level v8 driving people off is simply that, chicken little crap. I have seen plenty of older women in 400hp Escalades, and they don't seem to be scared of them. Yeah, I know, the Escalade is heavier, but as it has been mentioned on this boards several times, people don't pay attention to weight, they pay attention to horsepower.


It wouldn't be very funny if the "RS" Camaro could keep up with the Mustang GT, but came in at the Mustang GT's pricepoint. The Camaro is a CAMARO, it is not a sedan. It doesn't need sedan power levels, it needs Camaro power levels. We still don't know the exact details of the Challenger's powertrain options, so comparing the two is difficult. Besides, why should GM just fall into line with Ford and Chrysler? Isn't that belief system how they got to where they are today?

Big Als Z

Mustang GT will still be behind the L76's power by 10-12.
Hold what value back? 430hp for under 30k? What other company is going to offer such an engine for under 30k? No one.
400hp in a 3-3.5 ton SUV is different then a 400hp in a sports car half the weight of the Esclade is different. And it needs it to move that power.
People might not want to get the higher costs of a LS3 that will require high grade gas, burn through it faster, and not to mention have higher insurance rates. But what if they still want a V8? What then? What do they do? Settle for the V6?
GM can do more, and could give us an LS3, but at a higher price point. Best example would be the Mustang GT and Mustang Mach 1 of the last gen. There was the affordable V8 sports car, made good power and was very popular, price was great. People wanted more power, so Ford gave us the Mach 1, which is basicly what the old Cobra was. Had more power, and a higher price point.


If the Camaro RS could outpace the Mustang GT and come in at the same price point, its a win for Camaro. The Camaro SS with the LS3 could stay ahead of whatever 400+Mustang and Challenger, and the Z28 could fight the SRT8 and GT500.
People dont want sedan power? So I guess no one wants a 5.7 Hemi Challenger? No one will want that 6.1 Hemi SRT8 either I guess. Whats worse is that no one could want an LS2 powerd car since it was in the Trailblazer SS as well as the Saab 9-7x Aero.
Eh, what "system" that got them "where they are today"?
Mustang and Challenger will be thier two main targets. If they were to look at everyone else, you will see that other makers share engines across the board.

RussStang

There you go again with that higher price point crap? Why? Why should GM do that? It will likely cost them more in the end to certify both the L76 and the LS3 for use in the Camaro, when they can just drop the LS3 in and be done with it. Here is a thought, why can't GM give us higher performance without the price penalty? About the Escalade. I know why the Escalade has that power, but to most people, power is power. Most people have no idea how much an Escalade weighs, they just know it is more than a car, because it is bigger.

The insurance arguement is a poor one. Higher HP cars don't automatically mean more to insure. My Camaro costs less to insure then my Mustang did.


I don't recall ever stating that people don't want sedan power. Don't know why you are trying to put words in my mouth. I stated that the Camaro is not, in fact, a sedan. It is a performance muscle/sports car. It would pretty stupid to have a sedan with similiar power at a similiar price point sitting next to it in the showroom. The "system" I was referring to was just trying to match the competition at their level. Take the Camaro above the competition on every level, be it performance, style, handling, fit and finish, material quality, and reliability.

Why is keeping pace with the Mustang GT adequate enough? The RS is supposed to come in at a Mustang GT pricepoint, and only run with it? Why? 12hp isn't exactly outpacing anything either.

I suppose what confuses me the most is why you continue to argue your point, when I know that you know from these boards that the powertrains are likely largely determined already.

Big Als Z

GM could, but I dont think that GM will give us a 430hp car for under 30k. Had this convo with you already. 29k would be my best bet if at all.

High hp cars have higher insurance rates overall. 430hp in the hands of anyone will jack up the rates, not to mention the cost of fueling the car.


You didnt say they didnt want it, but you said that Camaro shouldnt get "sedan" power yet it has in the past. Trying to keep ahead of the competition is perfect and is what everyone does.

Im not going to talk this point over and over. It would cost GM zero to do, and if they arent going to do it, so be it. 430hp for the same price as a GT, I cant wait for it. I hope I get mine before they end Camaro for the 2nd time.

Tigger#76

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the L76 was being shipped over from Australia like the rest of the G8 sedan. To speculate beyond that... If it is the case that the L76 is being shipped over from down under, then there's a good chance that the tooling for producing the L76 isn't available in the US or Canada currently. And, if that is the case, then it would cost GM money to either start making the engine in the US/Canada or it would cost money to ship the engines from Australia. It seems to me like there's a very good chance that the L76 would be as expensive or possibly more so than the current US/Canada produced V8s that are available. Removing the Aussie V8's from the lineup limits you to an LS2, 3, or 4 and the LS2 is reportedly going away leaving the already mentioned LS3 (I think you can rule out the LS4 since it's built for transverse mount). So either the LS3 is the lower output V8 or there is some other V8 coming that is cheaper and that we haven't heard about.

Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of a lower budget V8, but I doubt the L76 would be it unless they are already making them on this side of the pond.

Jason E

If the only way to get a V8 is to spend $29k and up, I'm out. Completely out. When you can get a Mustang GT with a V8 for almost $4k less, its like the 4th gen versus Mustang all over again...the cheaper V8 wil sell in droves.

I don't care if it will make 430hp. But I do want the sound and feel of a V8...no 300hp V6 will do. I'm already EXTREMELY dissapointed that GM isn't bothering with t-tops. Now, if the V8 ends up costing $30k or more? Screw it...I won't buy a Mustang either, but I don't consider $30k to be cheap performance, and that's what this car is all about.

Its too bad, because seeing the concept debut live was one of the greatest things I've ever experienced. But no t-tops and this ridiculous 300hp "mid-level" V6 idea, combined with having to spend $30k at least we're estimating to get a V8? L76 would have been the answer to my prayers...oh well...

ChrisL

Fbodfather has posted several times over the years the 5th gen will be competetively priced vs Mustang.

4th gens were priced competetively vs Mustang. A base 2002 Z28 or Formula could have been in the low 20s. It wasnt price point that pushed more buyers to Mustang than 4th gen.

Big Als Z

I dont see how they can have the G8 with the L76 start at 29k, and we expect an LS3 powerd Camaro to slide below that price, start at the price of the G6 V6.
L76 is American made. The L98 is what the Aussies get, and I dont belive they make the V8, its shipped to them from Canada or Mexico.

Dragoneye

Is it made here? 'cause on the spec sheet, it said it's made in Silao. Where is that? Maybe I just don't know my cities...

AS for the LS3 for L76 price...I can see it. After all, it's pretty much the exact same engine, just designed differently to produce less power.

RussStang

Dest98

A 2010 Camaro for 29k would actually cost about the same as a comparably equipped 4th gen car when inflation is factored in. And consider the amount of resources being devoted to this car as opposed to the 4th gen which languished on the vine for years.

Dragoneye

hadn't thought of that, until now

The heads of GM actually want this car....