The things we enthusiasts are willing to give up, like a lower price, safety features, big wheels, sound proofing, big stereos, gadgets, nav... are the things that will make the car sell with the average consumer. (like women, who want a 'sporty' car that does 'neat' things, and rides 'nice')
If the car doesn't sell well with the normal consumer, it will die. Our best bet is to let the car be overweight and sell well, then put it on a diet when we get ours home. The better it sells the more the after market will support it with light-weight replacement parts.
I only know one person I would consider a normal consumer that also looks at the weight of the cars he buys. He looks for which is the heaviest, because he thinks that means its the safest. The average consumer doesn't have any reference for what a 'heavy' car is.

I like the Camaro where it is. If the sixth gen has too stray too far from the formula of the last 40 years to meet consumer demand, then just kill it. There is no point in putting the Camaro name on a car that it doesn't fit. Start with a clean sheet of paper, add what was learned in engineering the 5th gen, and build an all around better car.

 

Yes, there is actually a point where there's too much weight. It corresponds to the point of where there is too much horsepower.

Here's what I mean.

Take the 2004 Mustang Cobra and the current Shelby GT500. There is a 100 horsepower difference between them (400 vs 500). Both cars get their power vis the same method, supercharging a V8.

The weight of the Cobra was 3655 (Mustang GT was 3268). The GT500 is 3920 (The current Mustang GT is 3420).

The Cobra cost an extra 387 pounds, and 100 of it can be directly attributed to it's IRS. Essentially, the extra 145 horsepower added 287 pounds to the base GT (subtracting the IRS).

The GT500 cost an extra 500 pounds over the current GT. No IRS. Adding an extra 100 horsepower over 400 horsepower added roughly an extra 210 pounds in powertrain, braking, cooling, and suspension changes.

Yet, the GT500 despite having a 100 horsepower advantage over the Cobra is barely quicker than the Cobra. In short, having 500 horsepower in a regular passenger car is virturally right at the point of diminishing returns on performance.

The new Camaro's chassis was engineered with an expectation of a future extreme performance race in the future. The body is made to handle in excess of 500 horsepower. So is the suspension. Like the Pontiac G8, even the base models will have this capability, so there's built in performance capability built into the chassis. But that also means built in weight.

So, the issue isn't so much how much weight is too much. It's how much power is too much. At which point does the added weight needed to handle that horsepower and torque is too much to do any additional good or reach any performance gain. Do we really need or benefit from a 500 horsepower Camaro or Mustang or Challenger (yes, even Challenger is planning to enter the club!).

Rule of thumb, higher horsepower and torque means more weight.

Charger R/T weighs 4031. The SRT8 weighs 4160.

Cadillac XLR weighs 3607. The XLRv is 3804.

The current CTS weighs 3875. The upcoming CTSv will be approx 4250 pounds.

Are you willing to call a truce in the performance war, or even go backwards in an effort to get weight back under control?

 

Actually, those are the things that young men want and older men want.

Women are driven by practality and value. Honda sedans and SUVs have far higher concentration of women buyers than Mustangs and Camaros.

I haven't met too many women in which big wheels, big stereos, and gadgets are at the top of their list. But young guys? Yep.

Twice as many men bought V6 Mustangs than bought V8 F-bodies.

Think about that and let that roll around for a bit...more than two guys bought a V6 Mustang for every 1 that bought a V8 powered F-body.

Yet, there's still people who feel that V6 Mustangs and by association, V6 Camaros are "girls cars".

Amazing!

 

Yes!

 

I'd be willing to give up:

1) A large sedan architecture.

2) Large exterior dimensions.

3) Provisions for a SC'd 550 hp engine.

4) Fluffy crap like a torque gauge.

5) And although none of that would cost GM more, I'd be willing to pay more for it.

 

I have ALWAYS disliked the notion of a factory supercharged V8 Camaro. They're doing what I strongly see as foolhearty -- chasing the gorilla in the room (GT500) at a time when it is making less and less sense to do so for a variety of reasons.

You've got an outstanding, light, efficient small block architecture with the LS3. For the Z28, put together a little hotter cam package for it and call it a day. Designing Zeta from scratch to handle obscene horsepower from the factory may have been fine 5-7 years ago, but honestly, I am really starting to value MPGs (call me a sissy if you'd like) and I already have a well balanced package with my 4th Gen SS which supplies ample power and great efficiency. I'm just not itching to trade that in on a car that will be faster and handle better, but at a rather steep penalty to my weekly budget. Maybe the 5th Gen will surprise me though, who knows.

So I suppose the answer to the original question is, I'd give up the supercharger and 500+ HP in a heartbeat for a car that weighs 3400-3600 in top form with an LS3. I see all the modern conveniences and gadgets as necessary; I don't have a problem with them.

 

we are talking about the 6th gen when the 5th gen hasnt even come out ?

 

It's a sealed deal and some people aren't happy with it.

 

If GM tries to push the car towards a such consumer it will be as "successful" as the GTO. Those people would rather buy an Accord or a G35 coupe. It will not appeal to enthusiasts as well making it a lose-lose situation.

 

I'd gladly give up the larger architecture, V8 (as long as I was able to keep some form of forced induction), and all the lazy gadgets that's being thrown into and onto cars (HUD, NAV, 19+" wheels, etc.) for the 6th gen. I'd be all over a 350ish horsepower TT-V6 in a 3500 lbs RWD Cobalt sized car. Hell, I'd already be in a Cobalt SS or an SRT-4 if they were RWD.

 

This weight argument is ludicrous especially since no one has driven the car.

The new Nissan GTR weighs in at 3800+ lbs. Doesn't seem to be holding it back when it comes to 'ring times.

So the Camaro weighs about 200 lbs more. Woop-dee-doo. It will also cost half as much as a GTR. I'll live with it.

 

It's a big "IF" that the car is going to weigh 4000 lb. Everyone is speculating, and know one knows for sure the final "wet" weight. However, it's an interesting speculation on what we could do for weight savings. I'd live without power seats and power windows, and power door locks. Power mirrors. I'd live without Onstar. I could go without cartoonishly big wheels: 17 x 8 inches is okay by me. If the V6 lives up to it's reputation, I could live without two extra cylinders. I could live without an automatic transmission. That ought to add up to a few hundred pounds.

 

Here's how I would do a hypothetical 6th gen Camaro:

Alpha would be the chassis of choice. It will be smaller and lighter than Zeta, while still retaining an IRS. Obviously, this will require a reduction in power, but with a smaller overall package, 550 HP won't be needed.

As far as engine choices go, I would like to see a DI V6 and a smaller displacement Gen V V8, maybe a return to 5.7L (or 5.0L - 302 cubic inches for the 6th gen Z/28). Direct injection will make up for the power loss of using a smaller engine. Again, the overall package will be smaller and lighter than Zeta.

In this day and age, certain options and gadgets are almost required. I wouldn't give any of these up, whether it's a navigation system, or a big stereo system, or big wheels, etc. Having these appeals to the mainstream buying public. Enthusiasts who don't want these items don't have to order them if they don't want to. Besides, these items aren't what causes the extra weight.

The chassis and powertrain are the biggest factors in the weight of a vehicle. Use a smaller, lighter chassis and a slightly less powerful drivetrain, and you can bring the weight down. If you're looking for a solution to the weight problem, that's where to look - not what options and gadgets the car has.

 

I like the car as it is. And I don't buy into this 2-ton Camaro theory.
(until all who think like I do are proven wrong when the official info comes out)

However, given the Industry circumstances, and the hurdles GM and the other automakers will be asked to leap, I'd like the 6th generation to shrink slightly, and loose all the "supporting" reinforcements built into the chassis to handle outrageous power numbers. I don't need eleventybillion horsepower, and neither do the vast majority of buyers. If the support for such power was gone (thus a significant reduction in weight), that would allow us all to enjoy the 400hp even more. I also don't care how the power is made, if what I suggest requires the use of a V6 in all but the highest trim level; I'm fine with it.

If there's some necessity for all the reinforcement to handle vast amounts of power, then offer the 1LE package again, only add a structural improvement facet to the package.

I'm looking ahead to the ultimate success of the car. And if an inexpensive, "overweight" Camaro sells better than an expensive, but "lightweight" Camaro does......then do it.

 

Id love to see power and fuel economy numbers of a LS3 with Direct Injection vs the LSA.
I think its somewhat foolish to bring this supercharged engine out. With the Z28 being a year after the first Camaros roll off the line, could not that give GM some time to move development of Gen V's? 2011 will also see the C7 correct? It would be nice to see the 2011 Camaro Z28, Camaro SS, and Corvette to carry direct injected V8's.
Camaro SS gets a smaller displacement V8 making the same power as the LS3, this engien would also be shared with the Corvette, perhaps call it "LS5". The Z28 and Z06 both get the direct injected LS3 making 500hp. A DI'ed LS3 has to cost less then an LS7 and LSA if not financially but in weight alone. The "LS8" could now be the DI 6.2, come equiped with all the dry summed goodness that the LS7 and LS9 have. LS8 could also replace the LSA as well.
The LS9 with DI could make some 750hp once you factor in the direct injection which offers a great cooling effect for the chamber, which gives more power.