I was already mad at the lot of them. The incandecent light bulb is banned in that bill too...no more after 2012.

That's great except the CFLs are 5 times the cost (read: extra burden on the poor), contain mercury (don't break one in your house or throw it in the land fill), and they are ALL made in China where there are basically no regs on plant emissions. Light bulb lobby = 1. Environment that everybody supposedly wants to save = 0.

Good luck Scott, I think GM's going to be hard pressed to survive this bill.

 

Scott, in all seriousness, where were GM's lobbyists throughout all this? I spent a WEEK in Washington DC, ate lunch at the cafeteria on Capitol Hill almost every day, and saw nothing but congressman after congressman schmoozing it up with special interest lobbyists while I ate.

I'm no politician, but I have an idea about how this stuff works, and our votes don't mean CRAP when it comes to stuff like this (yes, I hate ALL politicians, but especially DEMOCRATS! )

Now I KNOW you're not going to tell me that GM's lobbyists let the treehuggers outspend and outschmooze them on every senator and congressman who voted for this bill, and then let Bush sign it into law. It wasn't too long ago Bush had a dinner with Rick Wagoner himself - you would think Rick would have advised him NOT to sign CAFE increases untill at the very least there is an idea of how to do it without killing product and if it will be cost effective. GM has some of the most powerfull lobbyists in the business - have we really fallen so far to the point that some greenpeace freaks have more clought on the Hill than the auto industry???? I mean even TOYOTA was AGAINST the increase!!!!!

To quote Beuford T. Justice: "What the hell is the world commin to?"

 

If GM doesn't have the next gen ideas in mind yet then they are already behind. Cars need to stay updated. Also CAFE regs should be damned, as to design around silly bean counting regulations has already hurt GM (even if it was previously GM's own bean counters).

If the car is made as well as it can be with the best balance possible then the regs will just have to fall where they may. The regulations aren't the ones buying the car...

 

Only because all of today's politicians are idiots! They are all a bunch of self-serving, money grubbing, career politicians that are doing nothing but slopping at the trough of public funds (that's the taxes we all pay). The only choices in the next election are not who is best qualified to lead this country, but who is the lesser of the evils that are running. IMHO they could all be run out of Disney on the Potomac tarred and feathered on a rail and we'd be much better off. Now, what was the topic?? Oh, CAFE rules and it's impact on the type of cars we all love, we need to all start writing to our Congressmen and Senators expressing our objections to the new CAFE laws, ditto for your state legislature (as they'll jump on the bandwagon too). Until we start making our voices heard we will continue to lose more freedoms as well as freedom of choice. They can take those CFL lightbulbs and stick them where the sun don't shine, if necessary I'll start stockpiling incandescent bulbs until I have enough to last the rest of my life. I want a new high performance Camaro, oil pumped from places other than OPEC, lightbulbs that I'm used to, and a whole lot of other things too numerous to mention here. I hope GM can work within the new laws to contiue to provide the vehicles that the public wants (rather than what the elected Bozos in DC want) and that we can all work together to get many of these silly new laws repealed. My two cents worth!!
Clyde

 

It may be, but Hildabeast seems determined to cripple American industry. And to "take thier profits" and put it into green research. Don't get me started on THAT Fascist idea.
*tiptoes back over the political line*

 

That answers my question. Thanks!

Just one more question, though.....

Before the new asinine CAFE law was passed, were there any ideas being tossed around for a 6th gen? Or was it a little too early for that?

 

I heard trees used to do that, remember those things, trees, yeah they were neat for a couple billion years, but just got played out recently.

"In memory of a real tree*"



*Simpsons joke.

 

I dont think that either side wanted to deal with the auto makers. I remember that Bush pushed off a metting with the Big 3 to a 30 min lunch where nothing was done.
Kinda sad.

 

I agree with what everyone has been saying - I can't remember the last politician that came out against global warming and against higher CAFE standards. Whenever someone does (and it's usually "Maximum" Bob Lutz) it gets downplayed as the automotive industry just whining.....

...that's what really kills me. How can anyone not care about the automotive industry? It truly is that last bastion of manufacturing in this country and without it China is going to have complete control over us economically (after which all other things follow). But in the media any concerns over the health of the auto companies are just written off - they are all waiting for GM, Ford and Chrysler to die like relics from a dead age....

 

All of the auto manufacturers will be hard pressed to get to the required CAFE averages I'm afraid Chris.

I personally have a feeling that the ones that are in the worst shape currently, i.e. Chrysler/Dodge will end up paying the CAFE fines instead of paying for the investment to try and reach those ludacris numbers.

 

Makes you wonder if that was the reason that Dodge axed the Viper. To boost thier MPG average.??

 

Not enough Vipers were produced to affect Chrysler's average. The amount of Vipers is microscopic compared to the rest of their cars and trucks.

 

Exactly.

The VIPER did nothing to help, but it did little to hurt the averages for Dodge. The problem that Dodge and even Ford is going to have is that they rely so heavily on their trucks for their total sales, that they are going to be hard pressed to meet the CAFE numbers. GM has really shifted their focus more towards cars, so I think they have a much better start on the 35mpg CAFE regs than Dodge and Ford do.

 

Maybe the 5th gen will last almost 10 yrs like the 4th did and just freshen up the facia and offer different powerplants.

 

I've been saying just that for a few weeks now. I have a feeling though that if that is the path that GM chooses for the Camaro, then that will be the end of the car. If it runs a course like it did for the 4th gen, then GM's plans are to run it until they can't afford to anymore from a CAFE standpoint and then kill it again.