2010_5thgen

for the low price of...............? so you can lease a car, but you can lease the battery? so if you dont pay your lease payment, their going to reposes your batteries?! haha. ahhh this just gets better and better.

Koz2

Believe it or not, IC engines get replaced when they get old and tired too; it's not like batteries will be more 'disposable' to owners of battery cars than engiens are to owners of IC cars. GM isn't working on making a large Duracell or Energizer here!

IMO, electric cars are DEFINITELY coming, and they'll be here to stay until the next big thing comes (I'm thinking we'll just figure out how to teleport and won't need cars at all ). By todays standards, gas engines were a joke when they first came out too.

Eric77TA

I did not say that I thought the Volt would pay off in 4 years. I was only referring to the Prius in that case. Here is what I said:

From what I've read, averaging things out, Prius pays off in about 4 years. Volt is an unknown right now and will probably vary considerably depending on how the owner uses one.

I agree totally that buying a Volt won't really be about cost savings. I think people who buy them will look at it as investing in new technologies.


Until we find out exactly how much the sticker price on the Volt is and how much it costs to charge one, there is simply no way to figure out when and if you will save money with the Volt. I would, however, wager it will likely be before the battery pack is worn out if gas returns to $4.00 a gallon. If it stays at $2.00? Maybe not.

Koz2

^ I'm with Eric

Most people aren't going to buy the Volt to save money. They're going to buy it because they like the idea of the car, like to be green, and like how it looks. Not everything comes down to dollars and cents when you buy a car. If it did, we'd all be driving Aveos and base model pickups.

I for one would love to have a Volt. I think they look good, and it would be cool to drive on electric power. For the money I'd buy something more performance oriented, but I'd guess >80% of the public don't hold that kind of performance as paramount as we do; and that's who's going to buy them

97QuasarBlue3.8

The Cruze will give GM a decent smaller car like every other manufacturer already has. There won't be Cobalts to laugh at anymore....but that's about it. I'm sure it will be a great car, but as an image leader for GM? I don't think so.

guionM

Thanks for the agreement, but I do have to interject that the US does not have the world's largest reserves of oil. The US is ranked about 3rd. I can tell where you got this info (talk radio... I've heard some of those ridiculous claims myself), but please... always do your own research.

Do you know the biggest suppliers of oil to the US is Canada, Mexico, Liberia, and Venzuela... not a group of Arab countries?

The issue with oil is that there is no 3 countries alone (let alone a single country) that can supply us with all the oil we need. We use so much oil that it threatens our national security. Also, the more oil we buy from outside the country, the more money we send outside the country which creates a trade deficit (more money going out than coming in). The thing we MUST do is drop oil consumption to the point where we can function with just the oil available to us from friendly countries, as well as balence out our trade.


GM got themselves in this position. The idea that the government forced GM into this position simply doesn't hold water. General Motors is the planet's biggest car company. It has resources available that would blow your mind. However, Toyota not only jumped ahead in production, but while GM has a $60 billion debt, Toyota has a $100 billion cash warchest. Ford, a much smaller company managed to go without federal help, and might just be able to avoid it all together. Chrysler is a flyspeck next to GM.. yet last June, Chrysler had more cash than GM.

Anyone going to someone else for money needs to be prepared for conditions attached. It happens with banks, it happens with loans to friends (you wouldn't lend an alcholoic deadbeat friend money for more drinks), and it should be the case with loans from governments.

Again, your passion simply is not supported by the facts. No one was holding a gun to the head of GM to produce the Volt any more than anyone was holding a gun to the heads of Ford, Toyota, Nissan, Chrysler, Mazda, Mitsubishi, Kia, Hyundai, BMW, or any other car maker that makes & sells vehicles here in the United States.

GM... and GM ALONE... decided to win brownie points like Toyota did by producing the Volt. Do a Google or Yahoo search, and you will find out that Bob Lutz pushed the thing almost singlehandedly.

The idea behind the Volt is great: Create a rolling sellable advertisement that would be great for GM's image, just like Toyota did with the Prius. Even Honda just got into the act this year.

But the difference between both Honda and Toyota is that they have litterally BILLIONS in the bank, and are constantly earning profits. They can afford to produce a money loser that will give them great press with enviroimentalists and greenies. In Toyota's case, it hides the terrible mileage of some of their trucks and V6 cars next to US brands.

But GM is hemmoraging money like a guy with a severed limb. The absolute last thing GM needs is something that will make them bleed even more.... especially when they need a transfusion from a source of last resort because no one else will give them anything because they see it as a hopeless proposition.


I feel the Volt is the last thing GM needs. But GM has painted themselves in a corner on this because they themselves have heavily hyped it.

While Ford & Chrysler are busy throwing every resource they have to survive, GM is throwing every resource it has into the Volt.

Again, I appriciate the passion, I myself am also not interested in any electric cars yet (they simply are not cost efficient, and I drive long distances). But we do have to decrease (greatly) the oil we consume. There's plenty of cost effective options available today (diesel, downsizing, even a fuel tax) that still lets the marketplace work.

2010_5thgen

this is the same thing they said years ago when they were bringing out electric cars. then they cancelled them. and im not mechanical genius, but i have better odds of rebuilding a combustion engine compared to, me having build or rebuild an electric motor. its a phase.

2010_5thgen

it does come down to things being about money. yeah yeah about the environment and all that bs tree hugger crap. people buy hybrid and electric cars to save on gas. people go nuts when gas is expensive and then they cut down their driving. so people arent goign to buy these cars just becasue its the baddest car on the road. or the new cool thing. ok maybe people in Hollywood will. but in real world, a 40k hybrid(and lutz was quoted saying around 35 for the volt) is rediculous.

jg95z28

Would you rather Washington let the auto industry fail and then we'd have to buy all of our cars from overseas? I guarrantee you that a future without GM, Ford and Chrysler is not what any of us want.

In a world without Detroit the rest of the auto industry is going to be fairly conservative with their products so that they don't end up out of business themselves. If you like cookie-cutter design and economy cars, that may not be an issue. But if you like individualistic styling and freedom of choice, your options would be fairly limited in that scenario, and probably out of the price range for most consumers.

People do not buy hybrid and electric cars to save (money) on gas. Typically it costs more to own, operate and maintain a hybrid or electric car in today's world. They purchase them because they believe it helps the environment. Whether or not that they actually help the environment is open to debate; however, if saving money were the only issue, they'd buy something else.

2010_5thgen

people act like filling bankruptcy is a new thing. chrysler has done it 3 times and their still around.
yes i know it wouldnt be good if gm were to go under but its impossible for them to. maybe not impossible, but there will not be a time,in our life time, where there is no GM.

actually some of those cars you speak of being made over sees, more of them are probably made here than our american cars are. theres alot of toyota made here. and theres alot of gm made in canada and mexico. believe me im all about buying american, but where do you cross the line when calling a car "american made" or an "american car" when its not even made here?

2010_5thgen

i have to agree to disagree with you. the reason people buy hybrids is for an alternative fuel solution or to cut down fuel consumption. thats the reason they exist. is doesnt matter if a car has ZERO emissions or the worste in the world, there will still be some dumb *** complaining about it.

jg95z28

I agree with you 100%. I simply mistook what you were saying. You said "save gas", which I took to mean "save money" not "cut down on fuel consumption and minimize my carbon footprint on society".

5thgen69camaro

The only irony I see is that you act like this is a surprise. What I find ironic is cars like camaro which are profitable will eventually have the V8s regulated out of them to the point where I wont want one anymore. Not to mention what damage may be done to the Truck line which we all know is the lion share of GM income. I believe loans will be tied to hippy cars like the Volt which at best will give GM bragging rights for being first to market with such a car and show they didnt "kill the electric car"

If there is a lesson to be learned it is that the EV1 shouldnt have been over promissed to the point its massive failure seemed like a conspiricy. Hind sight is 2020 but...

5thgen69camaro

The only irony I see is that you act like this is a surprise. What I find ironic is cars like camaro which are profitable will eventually have the V8s regulated out of them to the point where I wont want one anymore. Not to mention what damage may be done to the Truck line which we all know is the lion share of GM income. I believe loans will be tied to hippy cars like the Volt which at best will give GM bragging rights for being first to market with such a car and show they didnt "kill the electric car"

If there is a lesson to be learned it is that the EV1 shouldnt have been over promissed to the point its massive failure seemed like a conspiricy. Hind sight is 2020 but...

and before you make ANOTHER insulting assumtion that I dont do my own reasearch, choose not to agree with the news channels you agree with and therefore get my news from news channels you refer to as not real news.

here is the letter from John Sarbanes DEMOCRATIC Member of Congress when I sent the petition.

Z28Wilson

I have to agree with your post. Guy, you said in an earlier post that "there aren't enough treehuggers in Congress to hold a decent card game", which I would vehemently disagree with. The push to create these "green" jobs is coming from all areas of government. Michigan's do-little governor claimed in her recent State of the State that green technology is the future here. Our new President has said several times that the gov't needs to replace their vehicles with hybrid alternatives. In fact, isn't there an earmark to do just that in the "stimulus" bill they just passed?

If you haven't noticed the not-so-gentle push from all levels of gov't regarding hybrids and renewable energy technology, you've practically been in a coma.

This thread may be getting way off topic, so to bring it back around I will say that if nothing else the Volt will be valuable to GM to keep the federal assistance rolling in. It will also put them to a point where (God forbid) if cars like Camaro are either legislated off the map or done so by natural forces (such as the price of oil) they will have the experience needed to make the transition to hyper-milage vehicles.