Is anyone here good enough with some photo chopping that could take a nice picture of the Camaro concept and add a B-pillar? I know I'm not.

 

Well that's quite a rant. My entire point was that alot of the die hard members of the comunity insist that no matter what, we as a group should buy the camaro or be basically dismissed from the group. You may not come out and say it but posts like your reply to me basically sums it up.

I'm not saying I won't buy because of b pillars/badges/color schemes/powerplants etc.... And I don't think it makes it any less camaro. But when the car comes out and I can compare it with a challenger and a mustang why should I buy the camaro? The name? Brand loyalty? No, I'll buy the car I prefer out of the three. Why? Because it's my money. I suppose pointing that out makes me a child.

So go ahead and keep going on with the stats and rolleye smiley faces. I didn't say what I said to offend but to make an observation. I understand the b pillar decision and don't really care. I haven't come on here and ranted or raved about what the camaro must have and how I won't buy one if it doesn't. These threads are full of speculation on our side and to get heated and in an uproar one way or another is useless.

There are things I want out of the camaro and things I don't. When the don'ts outweigh the do's then I'll move on, unlike a lot of people I'll have enough sense to wait until I see the car first hand and drive it. I can appreciate the effort of everyone at gm to bring it back but that's no reason to plunk down 30k.

 

Not sure this is really a big deal. If they get creative with placing the window in front of the B pillar, it might be less noticeable than current cars. And if it means it is lighter and cheaper (leaving more room for other areas of the car), I am fine by that.

I mean, really, is it all that different?:

 

Yes it was a rant. I switch into that mode whenever someone picks out the most ridiculous things, then is so delusionally self centered enough to say "If GM doesn't do so & so, I'm not going to buy the Camaro...".

Keep in mind, we aren't talking about not having the correct number of cylinders, or having top drawer handling. We aren't talking about a demand that the car have quality on par or better than anything else in it's price range. Nor are we saying if it doesn't look like a Camaro, we aren't buying, or if it doesn't have Camaro DNA or spirit we aren't buying.

What we are talking about are "B-pillars". The way the "Camaro" script looks. Whether a car that shows up in January 2009 is called a 2009 or a 2010. Stuff that given what's happened the past 5 years, comes across as just stupid nitpicking.

No one on this thread has even slightly indicated or hinted, let alone said "we as a group should buy the camaro or be basically dismissed from the group". Though I know quite a few people like that, they tend to be people who have owned nothing but GM cars and wouldn't be caught dead in any other brand, so there's no real perspective.

What I did say is that there is a very broad line between wanting a Camaro that's the best it can be considering time, money, and federally mandated restraints and simply complaining simply to be on a soapbox and complain. Is the buying public going to actually care about a B-pillar or the way the script looks? Is an true car enthusiast who isn't beholden to GM going to choose a Mustang over a Camaro simply because Camaro's rear window doesn't roll down?

Sure, everyone here has their "Wish List" regarding the 5th gen, including me. Fortunately, 99.99999999% of the actual car buying tends to weigh their decision to buy on things that actually are important like quality, value, bang for the buck, and (something that's vital in the sporty coupe market) looks.

I'm disappointed that the next Camaro doesn't have rolldown windows. But I bet so are alot of people working on the car. You can bet the most valuable part of your body the issue was brought up, and if it could have been done cheaply, and without adding weight or risking side impact strength, it would have certainly been done.

The amount of structural reinforcement needed to meet planned and future side impact standards on a unibody car such as this would no doubt added weight and cost. a B-pillar can distribute the forces to other parts of the body, including the roof. Without it, you're going to need structral reinforcements. It may be no big deal in a CLK coupe that starts at over 45Gs, is the size of a Cavalier, and weighs 200 pounds more than a new Cadillac CTS, but it might be in a Camaro that's trying to keep weight down. Also worth pointing out that Chrysler decided against rolldowns in favor of a B-pillar and fixed rear windows as well.

Do yourself a favor. Wait till the Camaro comes out. Check it out. See how it's built. See how it drives. Compere it with it's competitors. THEN make a decision as to if you want to buy it or one of the competitors based on the car itself, and/or how it fits your needs.

It's far more mature than saying you won't buy it unless GM makes the Chevy "Bowtie" the right color.

Don't laugh.... It's been said.

 

Ok. Note my post above, where I said that, for me, T-tops would be a compromise that I'd be willing to make. Little rear windows that can be rolled down are about as far down on my list of "wants" as HID are.

So if that is argueing your point......ok.

I agree they're bad from that perspective. Further, I couldn't care less about them, so I applaude the decision.

Funny...I get the same impression from many of the cheerleaders here (though not by any one person in particular).

Bob

PS...forgot to spell/grammar check my post. Dammit.

 

to whom it matters and for what its worth most other non Camaro sites the complaint of the B pillar and no T top is a non issue.

Most comment on that it is no big deal. There are few upset but not many per site.

 

So you're telling me that is A) cheaper, B) "easier" to design (=cheaper), C) going to make the car safer, and D) going to help this "goshIhopeitisn'ttooheavy" car to be lighter???

Perfect!

So can I buy one yet????

Ok, thank you very much, have a nice day!

.......................... next issue??????

(and NO, please don't ask for T-tops ... not at this point!! Been there, done that, put the issue to bed ..... and yes, I very much enjoy the T-tops on my 4th-gen ).

 

I'm still going to buy one. One thing that I think would REALLY take away from the look of the car would be a door with framed glass....

Too bad the window won't roll down, but take away the cost of development, parts, etc.. could be a big savings for us (or bigger profit for GM )

 

I'm sorry but as much as we've been bickering over the weight of the production version and the fact that they're adding b-pillars to save cost and weight, I find it hard to believe that GM is going to add weight and cost back into the equation by adding a t-top option just to satisfy a few enthusiasts. Name one other t-top car currently in production and the percentage of t-tops sold over the same car without t-tops.

I just don't see it happening.

Again, while I am disappointed the b-pillar is being added, if there was never any plans for the rear quarters to roll down, then I don't have a problem with it. Just leave them fixed glass and don't make them pop-out vent windows. Please!?!

P.S. And other thing. T-tops do leak. The percentage of t-top owners I know that have never had leak problems is small. My 52k mile '95 Z/28 has had leak issues since day one.

 

Fear not T-top advocates. While the addition of the B-pillar may not equate to the addition of t-tops as a factory option, it does open the door for AFTERMARKET companies to add them. There used to be several companies back in the t-top hayday that did them (besides Hurst and Fisher) and I have a C&C t-top Camaro to prove it. All it will take is demand and if it is actually as high as all those who chime in make it sound like, that should not be a problem.

 

First off Am I the only one here that thinks T tops would look goofy on this great looking car? Kind of like a woman with a great body and a face that looks like it was hit with barbed wire.

I have a C & C Fiero with T tops. While it is a fun car and I enjoy the tops it is no where as stiff as it was with the roof in place.

How may cars today are offered with real T tops? There has to be a reason why they are gone? I am guessing they are haveing a time getting them to pass crash test with out a lot of modifications.

Also are the standards different on a Convertible?

 

Nope, I don't think they would look that great either. If it *was* an option, it wouldn't be one I'd get. No sun/moonroof or whatever they call them now either.

Convertables have to have different regulations? They don't have rollover bars... so???

 

+2

 

I HATE that gold bowtie on the front of new Chevy's, but it would not be a deal breaker on a new Camaro though, it would easily be repainted...

 

Yes you absoloutely did argue my point. T Tops are a compromise YOU are willing to make, where as 1/4 windows are a compromise someone like ME is willing to make. Point being if !/4 windows are gone, in the name of making everything "light and tight" then shouldnt T Tops be as well for the same reason? The only overiding factor would be if GM determined the majority wanted T Tops come hell or high water...

.

If you agree from that perspective then we are in agreement where it is important. Again, I couldnt care less about T Tops. I dont like them and I hope they will stay off the car using the same logic that killed the 1/4 windows. Trading 1/4 windows for T Tops is not doing everything you can to keep the car "light and tight." Thats all I was saying...