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besz28 06-05-2010 08:05 PM

new motortrend
 
just got the new motortrend and the camaro came in 3rd. the mustang beat it in every speed category. they said the camaro isn't aging as gracefully as some cars do.they said "the camaro feels like a concept car or a toy" and a car you wouldn't want to spend a lot of time in. they said the ford mustang is the quickest,best handling car with the lowest base price and friendliest cockpit. the dodge challenger srt8 came in second. they ended with saying that until chevy or dodge tweaks a substantial engine,chassis or body part, the mustang gt will reign as v8 ponycar champion. iam in disbelief.

GMRL 06-05-2010 09:22 PM

Always take whatever car magazines say with a grain of salt. They remind me of those kids in school that are always ready to jump on whatever is the new hottness and bash everything else. The Camaro has only been out for a little over a year, and the Mustang a few weeks. Its pretty dumb to say its not aging gracefully. The performance of both cars is very close and can go either way.
And even if they do want it to reign as ponycar champion. Hell, theyre waaaaayyyy overdue anyways. Let them have their time in the sun for a year or two. We have Corvettes,Cadillacs and several other things to keep us busy.

JasonD 06-06-2010 06:49 AM

If a magazine told you that Polka music was the best music on the planet, would that make it so? :)

n2ceptor 06-06-2010 07:52 AM


Originally Posted by JasonD (Post 6383233)
If a magazine told you that Polka music was the best music on the planet, would that make it so? :)

It was back in the 50's, until Elvis arrived...:p

besz28 06-06-2010 07:53 AM

these aren't just opinions the mustang won in every speed category their was. before my corvette i had a 1994 z28 i love chevy, and i know this has been said a million times already but the camaro HAS to lose some weight....they put one of the most potent engines the ls3 in a tank

Peyton 06-06-2010 03:03 PM

The cars are very close on the numbers. They're miles apart in feel and intangibles. People gripe a lot about the Camaro's cockpit, but I love it. It's ergonomic from a clean slate, instead of tweaking "how things have always been done." Some people will like it, some people won't, so what. I like the look of our '02 Avalanche, too.

The Mustang is definately more "tossable." Push hard on my wife's '06 GT and you'll say, "Wow, that was wild!" Push hard on my '10 SS, and it'll tell you, "Yeah, so?" They get to about the same place, although my wife says she'd never take the fly-overs from the interstate to the toll roads around North Austin like I do. How much do you want to feel like your ride is about to get away from you?

The '11 Mustangs have some great engines! They've tweaked the suspensions and outright fixed the lame-oh feel of the six-cylinder. They're dramatically different from the Camaro's, although they're aimed at about the same market. I like my Camaro much better. I think that there'll be plenty of customers lined up to buy both for a long time. I'm also really curious what a good engine and a sophisticated suspension would be like on a lighter chassis. But, the Camaro will get you grins from other drivers going by in SL 500's.

I think it's like the fist-fights that break out over whether or not you should put beans in your chili. Do you like beans? If so, put in some beans.

HuJass 06-06-2010 03:26 PM

Yes, their opinions are just that. Opinions.
However, the problem is with all the sheep that hang on every word of the editors of these magazines.
If these guys say the Mustang is better, then it must be better. Now they'll go out and buy one instead of the Camaro because of what a magaizine said.
And they'll justify their actions by pointing out their favorite magazine said it was better.

So while people like us know better, the average person does not.

And I think this is what the OP has a problem with.

Silver2009 06-06-2010 04:45 PM

Competition will only make the breed stronger and keep GM from getting comfortable. Ford has said that the 2011 is it until 2013, so no more tweaking for a while. This sets the stage for GM to address the cabin design (already being rumored), maybe tweak the handling a bit and find another 15 HP in the V8s. If they could find a way to peel out a hundred pounds that would certainly help things too. Not to mention that we have the convertible and the Z coming. :yes:

I like the content and the options that Ford has going with the Mustang, but the Camaro looks better and has the "it" factor. :p

I just drove the 5.0 last week, and couldn't believe that my elbow opended the backward facing console door 4 times on the test drive. Heck it took them three years to add a trunk button (which now sits on the top of the console next to the traction control in a very forgettable location). It's these sorts of quirks that keep Ford in a fog. They just don't seem to think when they design things. :lol:

HAZ-Matt 06-06-2010 04:54 PM

The bigger problem is not that the Mustang beat the Camaro but that if it was really 3rd that means the Challenger somehow managed to best it... that seems quite unbelievable.

graham 06-06-2010 04:56 PM

Motor Trend is more emotional and moody than some of my worst ex-girlfriends.

It's almost like bi-polar disorder.

maddog05 06-06-2010 05:54 PM


Originally Posted by besz28 (Post 6382925)
just got the new motortrend and the camaro came in 3rd. the mustang beat it in every speed category. they said the camaro isn't aging as gracefully as some cars do.they said "the camaro feels like a concept car or a toy" and a car you wouldn't want to spend a lot of time in. they said the ford mustang is the quickest,best handling car with the lowest base price and friendliest cockpit. the dodge challenger srt8 came in second. they ended with saying that until chevy or dodge tweaks a substantial engine,chassis or body part, the mustang gt will reign as v8 ponycar champion. iam in disbelief.

The new Camaro looks good and has an IRS but is 400 lbs too heavy, has driver position issues and a poor greenhouse view. All are fixable but the have lame leadership at the top of GM. I have been a chevy man for decades. Mustang after generations of losing to us is now ahead. Lighter, faster and better engineered it represents the triumph of Ford leadership over poor GM management even with a $49 billion bailout. Ford took no tax money; they just put in a sharp CEO from Boeing who is smart, understands enthusists needs, finance,manufacturing, is astute and knows what we want to buy. He makes cars and especially Mustangs that rock. GM is a mess and limping along. Lutz quit twice in frustration. Camaro guys are stuck until the GM leadership is wiling to put an engineering budget in place, hire the best and kick ass. Mercedes tried to improve Chrysler and did so. They got so involved that the car quality from Germany suffered. They bailed out and Chrysler is now about to fold. GM is focused on Washigton DC not US muscle cars.

graham 06-06-2010 07:46 PM

I dont think you are going to get a 3350lb 4-seater Camaro that has quality and durability.

GMRL 06-06-2010 07:58 PM


Originally Posted by graham (Post 6383682)
I dont think you are going to get a 3350lb 4-seater Camaro that has quality and durability.


Cant please everyone I guess.
I remember how many complaints people had about the 4th gens.
Now its kind of the opposite and you still get complaints.

MarcR94v6 06-06-2010 09:10 PM

beat by the challenger? lmao, yea right!

CamaroZ282008 06-06-2010 09:28 PM

The new 5.0 Mustang is a better car than the Camaro SS or Challenger R/T-SRT-8 period. Better performance is what sells enthusiast and overall looks is what sells new buyers. I'd say all three cars are still great in their own ways though. What I don't understand though is how the slow Challenger somehow did better then the Camaro:think:

graham 06-06-2010 09:30 PM


Originally Posted by GMRL (Post 6383689)
Cant please everyone I guess.
I remember how many complaints people had about the 4th gens.
Now its kind of the opposite and you still get complaints.

Yea I figured one of the very things everyone wanted for a world class car would also piss everyone off when it came time to put it on the scales. Im speaking of IRS.

JasonD 06-07-2010 06:29 AM


Originally Posted by CamaroZ282008 (Post 6383755)
What I don't understand though is how the slow Challenger somehow did better then the Camaro:think:

Did I mention how awesome polka music is? ;)

426HPSS 06-07-2010 08:51 AM

Funny how the weight is not an issue with me especially when you hit rutted potholed covered Ontario roads....Love the look, feel and muscle and neat interior of the SS....Funny how ALL the Mustangs I pass look hard and long at "my" SS....Funny how my powertrain warranty blows the door off any Ford....Funny how people still gather around in the neighborhood when I pull my black beauty out on a nice sunday (yesterday)...Funny how one car mag loves your car and the next puts it in the weeds....Funny how GM/Chevy did so many things right with my new Camaro that the fact that Mustang is one tenth quicker to 60MPH by a professional race driver in one test or another....Funny how I just dont care about Mustangs as they are as common as Corolla's around here....Yawn.....Just another Stang....
Funny how I absolutely HATE Polka music.......:no:

Z28CamaroPower! 06-07-2010 01:02 PM

What does Fbodfather think of this article? :D

CamaroZ282008 06-07-2010 04:12 PM


Originally Posted by 426HPSS (Post 6384104)
Funny how the weight is not an issue with me especially when you hit rutted potholed covered Ontario roads....Love the look, feel and muscle and neat interior of the SS....Funny how ALL the Mustangs I pass look hard and long at "my" SS....Funny how my powertrain warranty blows the door off any Ford....Funny how people still gather around in the neighborhood when I pull my black beauty out on a nice sunday (yesterday)...Funny how one car mag loves your car and the next puts it in the weeds....Funny how GM/Chevy did so many things right with my new Camaro that the fact that Mustang is one tenth quicker to 60MPH by a professional race driver in one test or another....Funny how I just dont care about Mustangs as they are as common as Corolla's around here....Yawn.....Just another Stang....
Funny how I absolutely HATE Polka music.......:no:


You sure do talk like nothings better then a Camaro. Specifically the 2010 that's black that gets plenty of stares by car guys who happen to drive a mustang :rolleyes: What's your point? The 2010 Camaro is a great looking car and people will stare at it...get over it. Who cares if people come by the drowns to stare at your "black beauty" pulling out of your garage. I get people everyday complementing me on my 16 year old Mustang sitting in the parking lot. You seem to be a hater of the very car that got the wheels turning for the original camaros production in the first place. Haters will always hate.
Someone who can appreciate both cars with an unbiased point of view are the types of people who are true car enthusiast.

As for your statement about the mustangs being as common as corollas it's so very true who would of thought. I wonder why? Well both the Mustang and Camaro are relatively affordable mass produced cars right? So in turn there will be a ton of them eventually. Give it another year and camaro's will be in the same boat. On average I see a good 5-8 2010 Camaros a day and about 8-10 mustangs of all generations...a day. Remember you are driving a Camaro, not a Ferrari Enzo.

HuJass 06-07-2010 05:55 PM


Originally Posted by CamaroZ282008 (Post 6384665)
You sure do talk like nothings better then a Camaro. Specifically the 2010 that's black that gets plenty of stares by car guys who happen to drive a mustang :rolleyes: What's your point? The 2010 Camaro is a great looking car and people will stare at it...get over it. Who cares if people come by the drowns to stare at your "black beauty" pulling out of your garage. I get people everyday complementing me on my 16 year old Mustang sitting in the parking lot. You seem to be a hater of the very car that got the wheels turning for the original camaros production in the first place. Haters will always hate.
Someone who can appreciate both cars with an unbiased point of view are the types of people who are true car enthusiast.

As for your statement about the mustangs being as common as corollas it's so very true who would of thought. I wonder why? Well both the Mustang and Camaro are relatively affordable mass produced cars right? So in turn there will be a ton of them eventually. Give it another year and camaro's will be in the same boat. On average I see a good 5-8 2010 Camaros a day and about 8-10 mustangs of all generations...a day. Remember you are driving a Camaro, not a Ferrari Enzo.

What's wrong with a Camaro owner being a happy Camaro owner on a Camaro board?

CamaroZ282008 06-08-2010 12:43 AM


Originally Posted by HuJass (Post 6384733)
What's wrong with a Camaro owner being a happy Camaro owner on a Camaro board?

Absolutely nothing. What's wrong is a camaro owner bashing the competitor and talking the 2010 camaro up like it's the best thing since sliced bread. It's time for a reality check. Here it goes- The new 2010 Camaro is Heavy, the footprint is physically too large(6th gen. is addressing this.), It's IRS actually isn't all that great when compared to that "old" live axle, the interior is terrible from ergonomics to design( GM agrees with me and a few thousand others here), visibility is plain bad...something that's pretty important. Due to it's weight when a supercharger or other aftermarket mod(S) is added it's performance isn't even on par with an old 03-04 Cobra with similar mods, heck even an LS1 F-body is faster then the 2010. That's all. :lol:

JasonD 06-08-2010 06:44 AM


Originally Posted by CamaroZ282008 (Post 6384665)
Haters will always hate.

:cool:

2010_5thgen 06-08-2010 06:57 AM

you know why i dont believe anything i hear from some of these magazines? becasue froom what i have heard from people who have actually drove the new mustangs.......they said their terrable. not nearly as good of a ride and handling as the camaro.

Z28CamaroPower! 06-08-2010 11:05 AM


Originally Posted by CamaroZ282008 (Post 6385094)
Absolutely nothing. What's wrong is a camaro owner bashing the competitor and talking the 2010 camaro up like it's the best thing since sliced bread.

Because you definitely can't go on a Mustang-fan site and read the same things, or a Challenger-fan site, or a sport-compact-fan site, etc, etc, etc.... :rolleyes: :think: :irk: :rolleyes:

426HPSS 06-08-2010 11:30 AM

Read the dozens of positive reviews....should I list them?? Motor Trend comes out against car and the whole site needs to believe the mag jockeys from MT.....drive one sir... on a regular basis...day in and day out....world class in 95% of its components. The interior is great, visibility is a NON issue if you own one and yeah...shes a bit heavy(pays BIG dividends when the roads are rough or do you spend your life on smooth interstates?....so what??...most stang owners with their heavy GF's riding along will get to 60MPH at same time as me solo.
Yeah...I am on a CAMARO site and I LOVE my SS.....Like the gentleman said ...what the heck is wrong with that...???
I dont see many owners piping in and saying ...gee that Mustang is sweet....We knew the Mustang would be good....We did not WANT a Mustang....Maybe you see 8-10 a day in your market but I have seen one V6 and NO V8's on the road all spring in the Greater Toronto area....so guess what...It aint NO Enzo but it's special, unique and the best looking and one of the best performing coupes of the decade IMHO. Ferraris are for guys who have to show all their friends that they made it in life. SS Camaros are for guys who love a beautiful Muscle car after all there are tons of # series around that cost more than my car...
And wait till you resell that mustang....Check the black book buddy....
Lovin my SS....

HuJass 06-08-2010 05:14 PM


Originally Posted by CamaroZ282008 (Post 6385094)
What's wrong is a camaro owner bashing the competitor and talking the 2010 camaro up like it's the best thing since sliced bread.

What do you expect from a Camaro enthusiast on a Camaro enthusiast board?
Should he be bashing the Camaro?
Should any of us change our feelings about the Camaro or not talk about how positively we feel about the car?

And he should do all this to appease what appears to be a Mustang owner with not too many posts on this site?


And remember your earlier statement? "Haters will always hate"? You do realize that you yourself are coming across as a hater, don't you?

CamaroRagTop 06-08-2010 07:24 PM

What amazes me is how a magazine can be in love with the car earlier in the year and now all of a sudden they piss all over it. Hell, the Challenger is the top end model at over 10K more in $$$ than the Camaro. Sure, the Mustang is a nice car, but it is not like it is going to blow the Camaro out of the water. A few tenths of a second and the car in MT had a special option rear end, which I am sure most will not order. Just wait till the Z28 and convertible come out next year. We will see MT get on their knees and BJ the Camaro once again. We love the Camaro becuase it is just that a Camaro.

JasonD 06-08-2010 07:55 PM


Originally Posted by CamaroRagTop (Post 6385809)
What amazes me is how a magazine can be in love with the car earlier in the year and now all of a sudden they piss all over it.

That's what they do and have always done. To them, it is the flavor of the month.

5thgen69camaro 06-09-2010 12:04 AM


Originally Posted by JasonD (Post 6385822)
That's what they do and have always done. To them, it is the flavor of the month.

Thats true.But and maybe its me but I think this time if they trash the 5th gen just because in their world the newness wore off, they do at their own peril credibility and sales wise.

Right now my opinion of the 5th gen and the potential of the 6th gen is higher than that of Motor Trend. I still enjoy the magazine and perspectives sometimes on strengths and weaknesses on performance and ergonomics. But I read it with a grain of salt when I do...

Andy30thZ 06-09-2010 10:25 AM

I could careless what Motortrend has to say....

But I did take notice when Muscle Mustangs and Fast Fords threw a set of MT drag radials on a stock 2011 GT and squeeked daylight under the left front tire while running 12.34......

Pretty cool what competition among brands will do! Can't wait to see what happens next!

CamaroZ282008 06-09-2010 12:44 PM


Originally Posted by Z28CamaroPower! (Post 6385386)
Because you definitely can't go on a Mustang-fan site and read the same things, or a Challenger-fan site, or a sport-compact-fan site, etc, etc, etc.... :rolleyes: :think: :irk: :rolleyes:

Never said that.

426HPSS 06-09-2010 12:57 PM

Future ride...Mustang GT....Current ride Mustang GT.....hmmmm...I was born at night but not born in the dark....I have never bashed the new GT....I have said they are as common as bellybuttons in Toronto...That fact stands....Yep...Its a good car and the Camaro is a bloody great piece of machinery as well with similar performance, better warranty (way better), IRS standard and way taller gear for this test ..... and the look and feel...well you know how the Camaro lover feels.......Last year the styling was "stunning" this year it's "cartoonish"...sorry but everyone who gives me a thumbs up every single day I drive my SS must read Marvel comics right?
Guess Ford must of comitted to a BIG advertizing buy from Motor Trend for 2011.....

CamaroZ282008 06-09-2010 01:07 PM


Originally Posted by HuJass (Post 6385703)
What do you expect from a Camaro enthusiast on a Camaro enthusiast board?
Should he be bashing the Camaro?
Should any of us change our feelings about the Camaro or not talk about how positively we feel about the car?

And he should do all this to appease what appears to be a Mustang owner with not too many posts on this site?


And remember your earlier statement? "Haters will always hate"? You do realize that you yourself are coming across as a hater, don't you?

What do I expect? I expect a car enthusiast to like his car for what it is regardless of anyone's opinions. You bought it for a reason hopefully it's because when you drive it you feel great, not to try and impress others...

He shouldn't bash either car if he really likes cars and doesn't drive it to be the popular guy because of his "New" camaro with no real insight like the majority of the crew on that other camaro website. What was it camaro5 I think? :lol:

Why change your feelings because of what someone else said about your car? Never said you couldn't or shouldn't talk positive about your car at all, it's yours do what you want.

Who cares how many posts I do or don't have. What does it matter?

As for the hater comment, I'm not hating on anyone or anything. I'm pointing out that a lot of new 2010 Camaro owners talk their car up a ton and tend to bash the competition just for the sake of bashing it and or they're clueless about what they even own. The few 2010 Camaro owners who do love what they drive and cars in general tend to respect the competitor a lot more do to the fact they actually have an idea of what their Camaro is about and not because it stared in transformers.

CamaroZ282008 06-09-2010 01:14 PM


Originally Posted by 426HPSS (Post 6386492)
Future ride...Mustang GT....Current ride Mustang GT.....hmmmm...I was born at night but not born in the dark....I have never bashed the new GT....I have said they are as common as bellybuttons in Toronto...That fact stands....Yep...Its a good car and the Camaro is a bloody great piece of machinery as well with similar performance, better warranty (way better), IRS standard and way taller gear for this test ..... and the look and feel...well you know how the Camaro lover feels.......Last year the styling was "stunning" this year it's "cartoonish"...sorry but everyone who gives me a thumbs up every single day I drive my SS must read Marvel comics right?
Guess Ford must of comitted to a BIG advertizing buy from Motor Trend for 2011.....

Thanks for pointing out what I drive and if you missed It I plan to get a new Camaro too. 2012 though with the good interior and I have to update my future rides thanks for reminding me. The styling on the camaro sure is stunning and it's also cartoon like with the exaggerated hips I love them. You should see what they look like on 24's as that really makes them look even more cartoon like:p
Who doesn't pay big advertising money in auto magazines?

CamaroZ282008 06-09-2010 01:17 PM


Originally Posted by Andy30thZ (Post 6386314)
I could careless what Motortrend has to say....

But I did take notice when Muscle Mustangs and Fast Fords threw a set of MT drag radials on a stock 2011 GT and squeeked daylight under the left front tire while running 12.34......

Pretty cool what competition among brands will do! Can't wait to see what happens next!

See this guy seems to like what the competition brings. He must be a real camaro enthusiast.

CamaroZ282008 06-09-2010 01:19 PM


Originally Posted by 2010_5thgen (Post 6385192)
you know why i dont believe anything i hear from some of these magazines? becasue froom what i have heard from people who have actually drove the new mustangs.......they said their terrable. not nearly as good of a ride and handling as the camaro.

I beg to differ. Are the new Mustangs almost as terrible as your spelling?

2010_5thgen 06-10-2010 07:35 AM


Originally Posted by CamaroZ282008 (Post 6386507)
I beg to differ. Are the new Mustangs almost as terrible as your spelling?

worse.....dick. what you show up every year to put in your 5-6 random post and head back under the bridge?

426HPSS 06-10-2010 08:32 AM

guess I am NO enthusiast....My 6 speed 2SS must be my Grand-ma mobile. I dont think too many people are paying attention to Camaroz282008 anymore....Lots of mustang sites for him to go drool over the new 5.0liter....Motor trend has their opinion....We have ours and we are 100,000 strong so that aint bad for a car that was dead buried and gone for 7 years...big future ahead and I am glad that some reviews prefer the Mustang...little heat under Chevy's butt is good but it is clear as day which car put the heat under Ford's butt to finally update that old Mustang....now if they could finally bring the old chassis into the new world ....

Silver2009 06-10-2010 09:59 AM


Originally Posted by 426HPSS (Post 6387284)
guess I am NO enthusiast....My 6 speed 2SS must be my Grand-ma mobile. I dont think too many people are paying attention to Camaroz282008 anymore....Lots of mustang sites for him to go drool over the new 5.0liter....Motor trend has their opinion....We have ours and we are 100,000 strong so that aint bad for a car that was dead buried and gone for 7 years...big future ahead and I am glad that some reviews prefer the Mustang...little heat under Chevy's butt is good but it is clear as day which car put the heat under Ford's butt to finally update that old Mustang....now if they could finally bring the old chassis into the new world ....


Word. Now we are all in sync. :yes:


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