I've been trying to keep an open mind to "global warming" not getting caught up in the hype for either "side".
I don't doubt the warming part. But how much effect humans have is still not clear to me. Some things that I've pondered on;

I remember hearing that cattle create more CO2 than autos.

How many ice ages(6-8?) has the planet gone into and come out of and is it related to current climate changes?

I'm old enough to remember the scientists in the 70's predicting an ice age.

Has the pendulum swung too far, to slow or stop global warming?

 

Thanks! Now if only I were smart enough to actually make that my avatar...

 

I'll look for links to support MY argument. But I'm sure you could google them if you were truly objective as you claim. And as for the scientist that made a bogus skull, he was a fairly famous one, not Leaky, but someone that big in the field. He found a pig's tooth and various bones, and used them to build a clay skull (about 85% of the skull was clay, the rest was pig and ape bones) and said it was a recreation of what the prehistoric man would have looked like. Until someone looked closer and found the peices were in fact from KNOWN animals. He was so busted. It was in a LIFE magazine back in the 1980's.
And WHAT evidence? Did you not read that all of the soviet temp stations are not counted anymore? So of course the average is going to be off. And what about the fact that the south pole is GAINING ice?? There is no "evidence" of global warming. Al Gore (aka the Goracle) is like Chicken Little. And to say there is no agenda is just plain narrow minded. We (you) are being duped.

 

Here's some links supporting a SOLAR warming. Bet you won't hear about this on CNN, NBC, CBS, ABC, or MSNBC.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...s-warming.html

http://www.realclimate.org/index.php?p=192

http://www.space.com/scienceastronom...ge_031208.html

http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2001/ast09feb_1.htm

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=36049

It's amazing how easy it was to find these. Just try googling "global warmin on mars" and there are MANY links to "evidence" that global warming is pure propoganda. So the big question is, what group of scientists are you going to believe? Seems to me that this proves that there is NO proof.

 

heh, mars is farter away from the sun than us, and it's warming up quicker than us... couldnt be our fault thats for sure.. so if we can't blame mars warming on humans, how can we blame the earth's warming on us

 

New Film Counters Claims Of 'Inconvenient Truth'

http://cbs5.com/topstories/local_story_103014130.html

Check out the video of the news story in the upper right corner.

 

You guys are looking at it from an overly simplistic standpoint.

Does solar activity affect climate? Certainly it does. Is it the only thing that affects climate? Of course not.

Just because there are other forces influencing climate change does not mean human activity can have NO effect.

The environment is far to complex with far too many influencing factors to predict with absolute accuracy. Secondary, tertiary and further down the line effects from increased CO2 from human activity cannot be absolutely known. What *IS* pretty reliably known is that due to human activity there is more CO2 in the atmosphere than at any other time in human history, and it's there due to US.

We have added our own activity to the long list of factors that affect the environment.

The only real question is, what is the extent of our impact now and what will it be as we go into the future.

In any case, the prudent course of action is to limit our impact where reasonably possible.

Christianjax link:
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...s-warming.html
Another link from the above link:
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...l-warming.html

 

Perhaps you should actually READ what's in this link. It DEBUNKS the theory that "global warming" on Mars should be related to global warming on earth. Check it out:

snip

 

Hmm, this one says:
Don't see anything to suggest that warming on mars and warming on earth are via the same mechanism, or that warming on earth must be solely attributable to that mechanism.

http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2001/ast09feb_1.htm
They're suggesting that while CO2-induced climate change is bad here, it could conceivably make Mars habitable (?!). Lotsa luck with that...
Still, they accept that increased CO2 should cause climate change.


http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=36049
Obviously, we're not influencing climate on Mars. But this report in no way seems to suggest we're not influencing climate here on Earth.


NONE of those links indicates in the SLIGHTEST that "global warming is pure propoganda", and some of them strongly suggest otherwise!

 

Actually there has yet to be one single peer reviewed piece of published research that has demonstrated an actual link between man and warming.

There are all kinds of theories..sure...we emit CO2...there's more now than before, and the earth is slightly warmer than 100 years ago...so all they have is the correlation, which means squat.

It was much warmer in the medieval warm period than now...but man can't have caused that.

The greenies take 100-150 years of data and claim an undeniable trend. Have we had reliable GLOBAL measurement of temperature for that long? I highly doubt it. Even if the technology existed to get the same accuracy as today over 100 years ago, there were only a fraction of monitoring stations then, which means the odds of statistical error are much greater due to crappier sample size. Even today, I'd venture to say that some of the data is suspect, and it is no coincidence that where you would expect to find the most reliable historical data...the US stations...temps are relatively flat over the last 100 years. Even if you do accept the global numbers, we're talking about 1 degree...which IMO isn't statistically significant and without context going back farther than 100 years is worthless. I even question the validity of the concept of there being a single "global" temperature average.

There are several questions, all unanswered?

1. Are we really warming? Some data says yes, other says no
2. Is man the cause? Maybe, but there is JUST AS MUCH chance it is the Sun or some other natural cycles we have nothing to do with, or a combination of the above?
3. Are the effects catastrophic? No, no reasonable people expects the dire predictions the alarmists suggest
4. If we aren't the cause, can we even do anything about it? Probably not, if its natural
5. If we can't do something about it, are the costs economically to both us and the billions of empoverished people in the third world worth the tiny fraction of a chance we can expect to make? I'd say no.

 

I think this thread alone has proved why making up new regulations based "global warming" is silly. There are theories on both sides of the fence and much to the chagrin (sp?) of some policymakers, not everyone is convinced that man is the reason for this so called "warming".

When you've got Mars getting warmer, theories of the Sun getting hotter, plus over the huge lifespan of the Earth (of which we've been a fraction of a blink) it has gone in extreme heating and cooling cycles, its hard to convince people that we are the sole reason the Earth is getting warmer. Maybe we've played a tiny fraction of the part, but Im still not convinced we are the reason. Not bashing those that believe that, but me personally, I dont buy it.

Like jg said, 50 years ago it was the "Red Menace", the dreaded U.S.S.R and the communist world power. Now "global warming". Like I said, maybe next we'll get martians invading. And for the record, I dont believe not because I dont want to, Ive researched both sides of the coin and the global warming thing is shaky at best.

On the bright side of things, we have a new Camaro to look forward to in '09

 

DING DING DING We have a winner ladies and gentleman. The plain and simple fact is that if other planets are warming too, there is OBVIOUSLY a lie going on here. The no brainer here is that the sun is in fact causing any warming we are experiencing. Why is this evidence overlooked by the alarmists? because it doesn't support thier agenda. Al Gore and his cronies would love to cripple American industry. Why? Because it gives him power. What kills me is that using CO2 as an excuse, 30 years ago, scientists were saying we were heading into another ICE AGE. Oh wait, change that, now it's going to have the OPPOSITE effect. *insert the sound of crickets here*
How gullable do they think we are? WE know the sun is generating more heat during this cycle. But the Goracle can't benefit from that, so we are getting fed this crap.
The REAL alarm should be that Iran is going nuke within a year, and according to a show I saw on the History Channel yesterday, a major volcano is going to kill off all life soon anyway. So the moral of the story, party like it's 1999, or get right with God, and go ahead and get that Hummer, or Vette, or Camaro of your dreams while you can.

And for the record, I only posted a fraction of links about solar warming. And of course the scientists that are discredited COULD BE because they don't drink the koolaide that the lefties are pouring. You don't find it odd that both Earth and Mars are warming at the same time? (even IF Earth IS warming) Methane is worse in the atmosphere than CO2, and livestock fart out more toxic fumes than all the cars combined. So what is the answer here? If it was warmer in the medievil times than it is now what does that say about Global Warming? And I live in Florida where it was predicted to have something like 15 named storms last year. None. And hasn't this in fact been the COLDEST winter in recent memory? Sure has canceled a lot of Global Warming conferences. I'm not buying it.

 

Suffice it to say there is PLENTY of peer-reviewed science that strongly suggests that human-caused climate change is real and is happening.
What is LACKING is peer-reviewed science which REFUTES anthropogenic climate change.

There's a LOT more now, which is CLEARLY due to human activity.

To those who've already made up their minds, maybe.

Of course not.
NO climate scientist is saying that humans are the cause of all climate change throughout history. Believe it or not they are well aware of historical cycles and anomalies not caused by human influence!

That human-influenced climate change didn't happen in the past (it couldn't have) does NOT mean that it can't be or isn't happening now.

The greenies? Let's leave them out of the discussion and stick with objective science. What the "greenies" say and what the oil companies say is not necessarly directly related to the reality of the issue.

But your "OPINION" is not relevant! Again, we're talking about SCIENTISTS who know far more about the subject than you or I do, and they tell us that overall changes of very small absolute temperature change can have HUGE effects. Whatever your personal opinion is, I don't value it more than theirs.

From all I've read, it certainly seems to be the case that we are warming. But IMO, it isn't necessarily "warming" I'm afraid of. It's ANY climate change due to our activity. We were designed/evolved into an environment unaffected by unnatural CO2 rise and other human influences. We should do our best to avoid doing anything that might cause significant changes of any sort.

If we are not the cause of current climactic changes, it doesn't hurt us one bit to do what we *reasonably* can to limit our impact. We could EASILY do a lot to cut down on consumption.

What "reasonable people" and "alarmists" THINK will happen, isn't really pertinent. My money's on the SCIENTISTS being a lot closer with their predictions. They predict mass extinctions, droughts, more violent weather, etc. etc.
If it's natural, the chances we could do something about it are indeed pretty small.

This is absurd. We could EASILY cut our CO2 emissions DRASTICALLY without having a negative impact on the third world. In fact, we could do so and SAVE money at the same time, freeing up some of our cash for improving conditions in third-world countries (though I have a feeling that those who are somehow trying to relate reduction of greenhouse gas emissions with negative impacts on the third world are exactly the same people who cringe at the thought of public money being spent to improve things for the third world!).

 

Yes we are the leaders of the free world and should set a stellar example at being environmentally friendly.

That being said, 12 years ago as part of my job I travelled and spent time in over 35 countries. I have witnessed some of the most abhorrent abuses of the environment. I doubt much has changed. Nor will it in those countries that were the worst. I just don't see many of those countries changing their ways for the good of the planet.

 

Ladies and Gentlemen where can you get entertainment like this for free? Jason should be proud of himself. The blue light is no longer flashing.