94LightningGal

Here is a video of an actual private owner GT500, and private owner ZL1 on Homestead. The GT500 owner is a road course instructor, so he is very experienced on a track. The ZL1 owner is a very experienced road course driver. Homestead is a tight technical track with two short straights. 2.2 miles overall.

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The GT500 owner, Van, purposely took lines that would be the hardest on the brakes, to prove a point on the brakes. They ran two 20 minute sessions. The GT500 had an e-mail tune (about 20-30rwhp), a removed resonator in the intake, and was running high temp brake fluid. The ZL1 owner was running a CAI, throttle body, pulley, tune, and upgraded dual fan heat exchanger that holds an extra gallon over the stock one, plus the upgraded brake fluid. Basically, the ZL1 had massive heatsoak problems all day. Both cars handled superbly. There was ZERO brake fade for the GT500. The ZL1 crew was trying to dial in these new parts, but couldn't overcome the heatsoak problems that are inherant to the ZL1 due to the tiny intercooler surface (Van says it is about the size of 2 pieces of toast). The GT500 flew by the ZL1 like it was tied to a rock.

Van knows Randy from MT. He knows how much they beat the crap out of the cars. Basically, since this is the only instance where there were brake problems for the GT500. Every other test praised the brakes. Thus, Van figures that something was missed for the pre test prep (that all manufacturers do, especially to heavily flogged press cars).

So, if some want to hang their hats on the GT500 having brake problems, that is certainly your perogative. However, it doesn't seem to show up in the real world. The ZL1 will have heatsoak problems that noone mentioned in any test. I guess it shows up later than 3 laps in (the higher boost in Torq's car made the heatsoak problems 10X worse). Basically, the GT500 is not a 1 trick pony like everyone tries to make it out to be. It is very good on a road course.

Yes, for an inexperienced driver, the ZL1 will be easier to look good in. For the experienced driver, the GT500 will produce better times on a road course, most of the time.

jg95z28

Don't get so defensive.

There are plenty of enthusiasts of both cars on this website. However there are also a lot of true fanboys of both who only think their car is best. Since this is a "Camaro" website, Camaro fanboy trolls are expected and should be tolerated. However since it is not a Ford website, Ford fanboy trolls should not. That does not mean there isn't room for a true enthusiast regardless of their affiliation.

I would expect to get flamed if I went to a Ford fansite and posted "ZL1 is the best and the GT500 sucks!" regardless of whether it is true or not. The same should be expected here as well.

My preference is for the ZL1; however I appreciate what the GT500 is and what it has achieved. Its just not my cup of tea, and I will always think the Camaro is better, regardless of what the numbers say.

HAZ-Matt

The importance of this cannot be overstressed when you are talking about road racing. If you want to say "oh well everyone would change the fluid" then that of course opens up the door to changing all sorts of things. Arguably changing the brake pads to a race pad is even easier than changing the fluid, so who knows which car will have better braking in that instance. Nobody doubts that the GT500 stops well the first few times. It has a weight advantage over the ZL1 and similar grip, of course it will stop well in the 60-0 and 70-0 tests. Slowing at the crest of a hill into a corkscrew the 3rd time around the track is a while different matter.

This also is not unlike the Nismo Z car that C&D had an off track excursion with because the factory spec pads / fluid weren't particularly good. Fine on the street, poor on the track.

As for this heat soak business, the reason you haven't heard about it in any test of the ZL1 is because mags aren't testing modded cars. And whenever anybody mods cars like that you can practically throw any reliability claims out the window because you do not know what they did, and you can guarantee that their engineers are not as good as those at Ford or GM.

In any event this is all academic. You might as well consider magazine reviews of this type to be pure entertainment as they will not influence anyone's buying preference whatsoever. The Mustang guys that want the best Mustang ever will get the GT500 and the Camaro guys that want the best Camaro ever will get the ZL1.

Sax1031

You do realize that a lot of tracks actually require you to change to a higher temp competition oriented brake fluid before you even run on them right?

HAZ-Matt

Do you have a source on that? Might be easiest to link me to the tracks that actually require that...

99SilverSS

Just to clarify your post a bit…. The white ZL1 is owned by Erik at Torq and they are testing out several modifications for upgrade packages for the ZL1. The ZL1 is having heat soak issues due to the higher boost pulley for the supercharger and upgraded tune. They went specifically to Homestead in the Florida heat to test some ideas on how to fix it. Modified supercharged engines will have heat soak issues on stock intercoolers. The GT500 is no different. In fact Van with the GT500 offered some advice because they have dealt with modified GT500's and their heat soak issues for a lot longer than GM tuners have.

Van was out for some tuning and fun at the track and Erik was testing, not racing, and the video shows is evidence to this.

As for the GT500 brake fade. Only the Motor Trend test with Randy Pobst made mention of it as a big issue. If it wasn't for the respect racers have for Mr. Pobst this whole thing might be tossed out as a fluke of the test car. I would suspect as more GT500’s get out and time goes by more data will prove if it's really a problem or an isolated issue.

Sax1031

I only know local road track courses. I haven't been to any of the big ones. Was always told the brakes needed to be flushed and bled before getting on the track.

Changing brake fluid is like changing air pressure in tires. If someone is going to throw a fit about that they are stupid.

HAZ-Matt

My comment may have been more like a jerk than necessary, so I should apologize first.

I guess I don't know how it works near you but if it is something like an open track day around here as long as your car is mechanically sound, no leaks, tires in good shape, approved helmet, and rollbar if convertible you are set. Maybe it is more stringent for a race, but I think that is pretty standard for what most people do.

I agree it isn't a huge deal and personally if I was going to track my car I might consider doing it. But the Camaro did manage to make it through Laguna Seca without any changes, and the GT500 had fade.

Now apparently in the Car and Driver test they specifically commented that the GT500 had fade free brakes. I don't know the particulars of their laps so maybe they weren't pushing it as hard or maybe the Motor Trend one was really a fluke. It is hard to say. Pobst probably didn't invent that, and I imagine he was basically pushing each car as far as he could on Laguna Seca... perhaps on a course with a different configuration it isn't noticeable. Who knows.

Sax1031

I doubt the fluid that comes in the GT500 is up to hard racing standards. The ZL1 probably has better fluid. Also the lack of air ducting to the cool the brakes on the GT500 is a concern, whereas the ZL1 has that covered.

Flushing the brakes and putting in high temp fluid would be the first thing I would do to any vehicle going to the track though.

King Moose SS

False by a mile

You can't be serious with that argument. The GT500 was slower on Virginia International raceway by a crap load (2:52 vs 2:58) and slower on Nurburg Ring (Ford didn't even post a time). As far as the other tracks I've yet to see the posted times, but I can tell you with a 100% confidence most road courses the ZL1 will best the GT500.


And stopping trying to use a comparison of 2 NON-stock cars. Once it's been modified, it is not valid comparison.

Sax1031

The VIR time is from a 2011 or 12 GT500, not the 13.

The technical tracks will favor the ZL1. The tracks were HP comes into play will favor the GT500.

The GT500 has held it's own against the ZL1 on the road courses. The ZL1 just falls far behind in acceleration tests.


And SVT never posts times for the cars. They never posted the times they got with the Ford GT at VIR. The only reason the VIR time was posted for the 11/12 GT500 was that one of the major mags posted a lap time with a well below subpar driver(which is par for the course for most the major mags).

King Moose SS

Ah, My bad. I guess it was the 2011. Whupsie.

Z28Wilson

C'mon, now you're just confusing Ford Gal with facts. That isn't fair.

bossco

Naw, I was looking for the hence the and not the

IMO I find the ZL1 to be a great deal (my one real peeve with the GT500, its very exepensive for what you get in comparison) but had I the money, I'd go with the GT500, because well... I'm a nutswinger (obviously).

I enjoy the internet bench racing as much as any, but I realize the stats are just that, a bunch of numbers and that the reviews are just a bunch of opinions and that in the "real world" these cars are supremely capable in most situations (how many people drive flat out on public roads for very long if they do at all?) and at least to me it comes down to the car that will provide the most personally satisfying experience ( smiles per miles I suppose) and not the one that a magazine tells me I should be most satisfied with.

WhiteHawk

I am actually getting sick of this argument but I can't let this one slide.

This is at least the second time you have come on here just flat out making stuff up. I am still waiting for links to the "Many, many" sites that you referenced in an earlier post that turned out to be made up BS too.

So please, save it for the Fordies, your credibility here is zero. Please go away.

-Geoff