Well then!

Those people on the "team" you mentioned, is that the GM team, or our 15 "disciples"?

Of our "disciples", I know that Elie actually takes his car to the track (longer than 1/4 mile, and a lot less straight ) so I trust that he has the same "vision" for the Camaro as I do, and many others here, including Charlie.

It certainly seems there's a pretty good cross-section of Camaro influence going into the 5th-gen .

 

Yeah, that is because we liked what we saw. We were genuinely excited. Nothing wrong with that. Again, we are not going to say it sucked when it didn't. We are accepting of the bad, and excited about the good. There is no way someone should think we should do otherwise because at this point, some things are already in motion, like it or not.

I seriously doubt that. I really do and you are reaching way to far into it. There were moments were we didn't like what we were hearing, and they didn't like what we are saying. Sometimes notes were written, sometimes we got apologies. We have no desire to continually hammer on a smaller portion of what we don't like when right now, there is much more to talk about what we do like. I could come up with a list of a dozen things that I don't like. Some minor, a couple major. Even if I could release exactly what they are, I am not going to be like some and bash it relentlessly because that won't do anything but make me look like a total bitch. It sure won't change anything now. Right now, those are the only two choices that I have, along with everyone else. I'll do what I have done in the past with every previous car I ever had...live with it or change it.

You might want to do your research on who was there.

Let's not assume any more that was just nodded our heads and smiled. It was anything but that more than folks evidently think.

I think it is cool that everyone wants to make sure we did our job representing. We know what we saw, we liked most of what we saw and that is what we are saying.

BTW, Hylton...I remember specifically investigating some of the things you suggested in the input thread. I did print them off and used some as a checklist.

 

So only 4th genners are legitimate enthusiasts? I am not going to get into one website vs. another except to say that if you peel away the distractions in the websites mentioned, you will find the most die hard Camaro enthusiasts known. Guys with the "one off" cars, guys with the 6 figure cars, guys with more knowledge and documentation about Camaros than anyone else.

Truth is, each gen group has a different mindset and as a result, have different perspectives and opinions which would benefit a focus group.

 

You can say the same about this site, too.

Part of the application essay was to list off the Camaros owned. See Chris' overview of who owns what above.

 

I know afew of you from the focus group, and those that I know are good people. I've had Art at my home. I see Tim around the Chicago area at various F-car events. Elie, I've had breakfast with in BG.

But I have the impression that all 15 have "bought in" to the 5th gen car from it's conception. I have the impression that purchasing a 5th gen is a forgone conclusion for all 15 regardless of it's strengths/shortcomings. I have the impression that this particular 15 people group were very friendly 'critics', really there to lend legitimacy to what the Camaro team has already decided to do.

I don't want to disparage the fine people involved here or this very interesting process, but I'd bet that very few 'hardballs' were thrown. And that perhaps was by design.


I don't mean anything bad by this, it's just the way I see it.

 

Maybe not but understand - that's how you sound to us who are concerned.

Well you know what Jason? That's what we want to hear more of. Keep the synopsis to the issue at hand. We don't need the cheerleading. I personally couldn't care less about Lutz flying one of his planes. Did you do what was expected of you from the rest of us is what I want to know and how did you go about achieving that?


I have Jason and quite frankly, it certainly was not the who's who of the Camaro world.

Absolutely, 100% untrue!

I can't speak for other people but I am truly happy for all of you who went. It is an experience of a lifetime no doubt. Let's not start insinuating that those who are voicing concern over the activities over the past weekend are just sorry they did not get selected. The concern only comes from reaction to how you have all come across.

 

96K.

The gear ratio is exacerbated by the fact that the previous owner put taller 235/60/15 tires on in place of the stock 215/65/15 size.


1fastdog, thanks for the tips, I'll need all the help I can get!

 

Not at all. If anything, 4th gen would be the 180* of what this car should be. My point is that owning a certain generation doesnt make a huge difference. I think it comes down more to age and your financial ranking.
GM could have gotten a bunch of guys who drop a trillion dollars on tiher cars from Protouring.com too, but they picked a bunch of people that were pretty open minded and that owned Camaros or are well respected and representitive of the Camaro world.
I dont think GM picked a bunch of softies, but more people that were able to give subjective information rather then have 15 people have a bash fest about everything from ignition cylinder location to texture of headliner.
Who is to say that some of them didnt put up a few questions that put the Camaro team off? The 15 took questions and concerns from here and around the net about Camaro, and Id say that weight, size, power, economy, and price were the majority of questions.

I dont think that GM picked 15 people that were already set to go no matter what it was, the "Cobalt" people if you will. They picked 15 people that understand Camaro from multiple angles as well as the modern day automobile.

 

So... there were two V8 autos, and one V6 manual, but it's already been mentioned that there were four Camaros (Red, Silver, Black, and a mystery color I believe to be Hugger Orange ). Nobody ever mentions the fourth car's powertrain setup. Was it a V6 auto? If so, since that is likely going to be the one that sells in the largest numbers, can anyone comment on it?

 

Charlie, 235/60-15 is about the same overall diameter of the stock size. Its a wider tire for better traction and handling, but maybe a notch bigger then stock.

 

I totally agree with you there Jason. I believe you and Chris have done a fantastic job with this site and along with another site (who shall go unmentioned) are THE site for 4th gen enthusiats. I look forward in seeing what you have planned for this site once the 5th gen becomes predominant.

The point was only made because someone discounted the other "gen" sites.

 

We keep saying it, there is only so many ways we can word it.

That was just a cool part of the experience. No need to get hung up on it. I don't typically read Oprah's magazine because I am not interested in it. As such, I don't pick it up when at the news stand. I skip to PHR.

I addressed this in part in my above post. I even mentioned your name.

It wasn't meant to be. It was made up of a cross-section of many levels of criteria.

Then let's not continue insinuating that those who were there didn't deserve to be!

I have no desire to add to the broken record and I don't see the need for the group to defend themselves. Again, we like what we saw for the most part and that is what we are saying.

The concern is definitely appreciated and well understood but I don't we are on the same page right now. I am okay with that. When the time comes, I think we'll all come together and move ahead. There will be lots to talk about. In my opinion, lots good and some bad!

Oh...and everyone else...let's leave the personal Corvette stuff in its own thread in Lounge Land.

 

Why is it that when you hear about the Mustang team having focus groups with Mustang enthusiast's it is this fantastic thing and that they really listen to their hard core poeple, and when the Camaro team does it it is stacking the deck? You don't think Mustang enthusuast's came out of the S197 focus group pissing their pants with excitement? Do you think the others on corral, etc. called them "cheerleaders" or otherwise ridiculed them?

This thread (and most of the others about the focus group) have reached a point of being embarassing...


PS - Thanks to the members that have taken the time to attend the focus group and provide what information they can. Also thanks to Scott and the Camaro team for arranging the focus group. It wasn't a program requirement and it's something I consider going above and beyond. It does show that they are dedicated to making a great product.

 

That, I think we can all agree on!

 

Well said.

As I mentioned the concern is definitely warranted, but how it is being presented is sometimes less than constructive. Let's get back to that!