GM has rebadged just about every car in their line-up for decades now!! "First time" was a long time ago!!

 

Personally I'd like to see a production version of the LS7 Solstice... or at least an LS3. If they changed the styling enough, would Pontiac enthusiasts except a V8 Solstice as the new "Firebird"?

 

i dont think there is anyone here who "can't stand the thought of the Firebird's return".. theres a big differerence between that and the realistic idea that it probably won't return...

 

Not realistic to think it won't. There's money in it, and profits are what GM is about. Why is it that when you start talking about the Firebird, Camaro owners start sounding like Mustang owners?

 

I'm with Dwarf Killer on this, it seems whenever a new Firebird thread is posted, plenty Camaro owners come in and basically bash the idea and say it's not worth it.

Back when Camaro was in "hiatus" and not officially given the green light, I posted a few threads abou a possible Firebird return on different paltform, different engine/transmission options etc to differentiate it from Camaor and many people just shot it down. Not sure why,.

 

Here is the problem based on my view as a guy with two Pontiac's in the Garage.

Fiest Pontiac does not need nor does Chevy a clone of the Bird in the line up. We have cried to let go the badge enginnering for yeats and now that GM is doing it we cry for badge engineered cars.

With the coupe market at it is it's a hard sell anyway and if you make a siter car it will rob sales and what extra money makeing a different car will be wasted with the extra design work as well the tooling to make it happen.

Second Pontiac is going to move away from Chevy ands try to not just be a fancy Chevy. If one was to push for a Camaro sister you will be giving up on their plans for a different car that will fill out GM's line up better and not rob sales from the Camaro.

I Love Firebirds as well as many at GM but in this day and age you need to do what is right and smart and not just follow your heart. these are the hard choices GM has to make that Scott points out.

It is kind of like Mom and Dad not letting you something as a kid but when you grow up and see if from where they were at it makes it clear they were right.

If Pontiac would make a different car a Firebird people would cry that it is not a Firebird just as they did with the GTO. I love the GTO and had no issues with it but many Pontiac people havce a preconcieved idea what a GTO is. Even if the do a new coupe I would be in favore to not even call it a GTO with all the stuborn Pontiac people complaining.

With the new Alph Pontiac stands to gain the most sho lets let them work we may get our cake and get to eat it too.

 

Hyperv6,

Oh trust me, I'm not arguing the fact that a rebadge of the Camaro for Pontiac doesn't make alot of sense. Maybe I was too vague and didn't properly express my point, but what I meant to say is even when anyone brings up a Firebird return on a different chassis, with different engine/tranny combos, Camaro owners usually come up in arms arguing against it.

I would understand if everyone was demanding a sister car/clone of Camaro, and Camaro owners being reluctant about it, but some of us bring up the point that an smaller, nimbler 'Bird (namely Alpha) could be intriguing. And it still gets shot down with the " Get over it, Firebird is dead", or "it's not coming back."

I just don't understand all the "hate" for Firebird when it's being proposed on a totally different platform?

 

I'd love to see a new Firebird based on the Camaro. Imo, the Firebird can only be on the same platform as the Camaro. If it's on another platform, call it something else. Don't disgrace the Firebird name by placing it on a smaller car with a 4cyl or 6cyl as the top engine. Even if it did have a V8, come up with another name before calling it a Firebird.

Having two different models is why I've always loved Fbodies. Sometimes the Camaro looked better and sometimes the Firebird looked better. There was a choice. I've owned both Firebirds/TA's & Camaros in the past. More Firebirds & T/A's though. I don't think there should be a Camaro without a Firebird.

GM just needs to build the frikken cars and watch both of them sell. Who cares if they don't match the sales of the moostang. Most of their owners have drunk the mustang kool-aid for too long and will never buy anything else. I don't think the Camaro by itself will come close to the Mustang sales. I do hope it makes the 100,000 goal though. Because if it doesn't, we won't have a Camaro or the hope of a Firebird.

The least GM could do is to make a Firebird Concept Car and show us what it might look like.

 

If anybody has read my posts, (especially "Lamenting The Loss of the Firebird") from about a year ago; I think it obvious what I would like to see!

Although I owned a fourth-generation Z28 I’ve never been a “Camaro guy” and it is very unlikely that I will buy another; nothing against them…just not that interested in them anymore. I’ll always appreciate them and what they mean to the automotive world but ownership of a new one is likely not in the cards (I am, however, in the marekt for a '73 or '79 TransAm to restore!).

That said, anybody who says “never” to another Firebird TransAm just doesn’t understand business in general or the automotive business in particular (no offense intended).

Writing checks to the SCCA, tooling costs, testing costs, etc are not the real issue…the only issue GM needs to look at is whether they can make a profit from it sufficient to be worth the effort taking all those “costs” into account…if it makes business sense to do it then there is no reason to think that there will never be another Firebird TransAm; if they can’t then there won’t be another.

To be blunt, I don't think the market it there; at least not long term but I also hope I'm wrong!

 

I just see hate on the Pontiac end if it is not a sister car to the Camaro or is in some way similar to a past Bird.

I have had issues with the GTO people who complain on ever GTO idea or even the last GTO by saying it does not look like a GTO.

I have posed the question to many and few agree on what a GTO should look like. Some like the early years, some the second gen while others love the last one. I just see the same thing with a all new bird and too many complaining it does not look like a bird.

At the point Pontiac is at I would have no problem with all new models and all new name [drop the G numbers]. New ledgends can't be made if we keep reliving the past. Pontiac has lost so many buyers they almost need a total fresh start to claim new buyers that have never owned or considered a Pontiac. In conquest buyers the past history means little and in some cases bring up bad memories of G body Bonnevilles etc.

As for the Camaro Bird rivaly it has always been like Michigan vs Ohio State. Both are great schools and teams but people always have their favorite.

 

Oh I hear you on the fact that from a Firebird fan's perspective, you usually hear that if it doesn't keep the 2+2, V8, RWD formula that most Pontiac fans would rather see it not brought back.

What I'm saying, and I believe Dwarf Killer is as well, is that most Camaro owners are always against a Firebird return no matter what the proposal is, whether that be sister car to Camaro, o totally different platform. I'm just trying to understand why all the hate?

 

There is no hate for the Firebird.

There is, however, a great deal of hate for the 50 thousand threads that begin with the title "When are they bringing back the Firebird / Trans Am?".

People are just sick of the threads. How many of these f'n things have to be posted? Does anybody search or read the stickies before they lunge for the "new thread" button?

That was a rhetorical question of course. I know they don't.

 

While I'll agree there seems to be new posts regarding the return of Firebird/Trans Am every few weeks it seems, and basically there isn't any news or new news to be reported, it still seems that the majority of Camaro owners always get up in arms about it. And I'm not talking about the excessive threads, but about the car itself.

Obviously I'd love for the nameplate to make a return, I feel there's so much heritage and history not to. I obviously realize the market conditions and the fact it's not on the horizon, but people do care about Firebird. I know this is a Camaro website, but I'd lke to think we're all on the same side.

 

The treads are bad enough but I also get tired of the magazine stories that just fan the flames and stir it up again.

 

And of course you weren't nearly as annoyed at all the "When is the Camaro going to Return" threads? If it annoys you so much why do you feel compelled to post in the thread at all? Perhaps you should just leave it to the Firebird fans? Or dare I say, maybe you're one of those people who resented the Firebird because it was a more expensive 'upmarket' version of the Camaro?

Whatever the reason, you won't stop the desire for a more extreme, radical car than the Camaro. That's what the Firebird was. We're talking Alpha here, and it would be a really good idea to put a V8 Firebird onto that new RWD platform. Like putting an LS3 into a BMW M3, it would be an incredible musclecar.