http://videos.streetfire.net/video/9...830062b402.htm

5:16



Scott says feb 2009

 

Yes, actually I was and still am when they pop up.

Ummm... because somebody asked the "Camaro fans" the reason for "all the hate". If you don't want to read answers to questions and only want to add to your post count, stick to the lounge.

Hmmm.... you may be on to something here.

Lemmee see...I've owned three Camaros... some of my friends also own Camaros but.... I currently own a Pontiac, have owned Pontiacs in the past, almost bought a new Formula Firehawk back in '02, brother owns a 30th WS6, Dad had a '97 Firebird, best friend had a '97 Formula WS6, a good friend I race with has a '99 WS6 'vert. Yup thats it. I'm jealous. You got me. How did I not see this before? Wow. Thank you for enlightening me. How did you know? Scary.

Next time think a little before you type.

Where the hell did I type that? I don't want to stop the desire. Why would I? I'm just sick of people not facing reality.

The market simply is not there and Pontiac doesn't want anything to do with the name. Will this change in the future? Who knows? However, we know about upcoming products out through what? 2010? No Firebird on the horizon. If anything, Pontiac is moving farther away from historically significant names. Thats the reality of the situation right now.

You can choose to accept it or not. You can continue to twist the statements of others into some perceived bias or not.

 

might be a market for after market bumpers and fire bird logo to make a 5thgen look like what someone might think a 5thgen firebird would look like

 

But why read the thread in the first place? There must be a reason.

Currently own what Pontiac? A Wave? And 'almost' sounds like you couldn't afford it and got stuck with a stripper Camaro.


Your friends and relatives have good taste, but I don't see how you ever lived through all the laughter and ridicule from your brothers. No wonder you can't stand Firebirds.



I'd like to find out what makes a guy like you, who knows nothing so sure.

You have proof of this I presume? Feel free to post a link.

Not you, that's for sure.

ROTFL. Moving away from historically significant names! Like what? Camaro? Or perhaps GTO, Impala? Really. Speaking of thinking before you type...

There will only be one snag to using the Firebird moniker: in the St. Therese final contract the name Camaro could not be used for five years. The name Firebird can never be used again. But then, we're talking unions and things can be bargained for.

 

Clean it up, guys. No need to argue here.

 

That's too bad, the Grand National is the only car worth a **** or that appeals to someone under the age of 65 that Buick has made in 35 years...

 

Good point.

 

That's too bad. I had to delete an amusing response for Mr. Killer the marketing analyst.

Fair enough. I'll let it drop.

 

One small clarification: Exactly 901 Formulas were built in 2002.

 

I'm curious now. I'll have to see how many were Firehawks.

Now that I'm thinking about it, I can't remember if this was an '01 or an '02 I looked at. It's been a while.

For me the deal breaker was two fold...

1) An absurd dealer mark up that they absolutely would not budge on.

2) I felt that I could (and ultimately did) match or exceed the performance of the Firehawk with my current car for much less money.

I enjoy competing and trophies on my shelf much more than I enjoy owning some sort of status symbol.

 

My theory, of which I am quite proud, would see the Camaro as a stand alone or even with a GTO in the Pontiac stable fall short of sales goals and GM would not continue the 2 door version of the platform.
Regardless of the new GTO's looks, the name as far as sales are concerned is irreversibly tarnished. The Firebird and it's variants would generate more of a buzz than a new GTO would ever bring about in my opinion.
I have owned a 68 RS/SS, a 69, and 2 LS1 SS Camaros and have owned 3 Firebird Formulas, one I still have. I am the biggest die hard GM fan out there, but logic and GM's marketing department are sometimes mutually exclusive. If GM builds the Camaro I will buy one, but it it is going to take more than us die hards to support the car enough to continue it into the future. Pontiac can be the vehicle to bring in sales that may go to Ford or Dodge (remember the Challenger is coming) and I don't see the GTO as being capable of luring those buyers to the showroom.
As with everything at GM it will come down to numbers. A Firebird is a better choice than the GTO to, if nothing else, preserve the future of the Camaro.

 

I see a flaw in your therory. If GM had continued the GTO uninterupted like the Camaro, we would have been lucky if it turned out like the 06 Goat. People were excited when the GTO was comming back. Also that we were getting the Aussie muscle car that everyone who knew about it thought we were deprived of. People missed the goat like the miss the Firebird now. If anything were to "irreversibly" ruin a brand name it would be the 4th gen F body. (in my opinion) We all know that didnt happen. At least in my mind the 5th gen seems to erase that. The change of what a 60's Camaro which I think a camaro is supposed to be compared to a 4th gen is much worse than the morph from a 69 goat to a 06. For the record, I liked the 06 Goat.

 

Merely killing the 4th gen didn't ruin it. They were selling 3 times as many F-bodies as they were Saabs in North America. They also didn't bring back the GTO with any resemblance to where it left off. They rebadged a Monaro, a far cry from traditional GTO styling. In the sales world, where all of this is decided, the GTO IS tarnished in the public's eye. I am at Pontiac dealers three or four times a week with my job and the buzz there is that maybe they will get a Firebird since the Camaro is coming back. None of the GMs I spoke with are all too excited about another set of Goats chewing floorplan hay out in the lot. There was no mad rush to the dealerships to get the recently defunct GTO and the dealer down the street from me still has your choice of colors.
The car itself is phenomenally comfortable and capable. Unfortunately it doesn't have the aggressive looks that people want when they buy a car like that. Badge engineering is here to stay because it makes financial sense. Can you see the same car when you you see a Saab next to a Malibu? The performance of the all wheel drive turbo Saab compared to the Malibu is like night and day. Yet they have the same underpinnings. A unique exterior could be extracted from the Camaro/Impala platform to create a Firebird just as easily as the forementioned example.
I do not dislike GTOs, but the fact remains they are a sales dud. Pontiac cannot afford another one of those if it wants to stay away from a fate similar to Oldsmobile

 

Maybe the fact that most Pontiac Dealers added on a exorbant mark ups hurt the fact that people didn't buy GTOs. And also many didn't allow test drives unless agreeing to purchase the car. I bet the dealer that still has a wide variety of GTO's that you go to won't budge at all on the price. Am I wrong?

 

I did go to a Pontiac dealer during the employee discount sales. I was on the fence and hoping for a GTO deal. The sales girl was in her early 20s and obviously didnt know about the car. I was checking it over and to my surprise she asked if I wanted to take it for a spin. So she headed into the dealer ship to get the keys. After several minutes of what Im sure was some educating of the new sales girl she emerged with "They said you cant drive it" I started it and reved it in the parking lot. I fell in love with the LS2 immediately. The sound, the way it shook. But I felt like a kid who didnt have their license yet reving moms car in the drive. I felt like a dork. I realized this would have been an impulse buy from people who didnt respect me enough to let me drive it. It wasnt even anywhere close to the deals that were being made on the Silverado.

Could I have afforded it? yup. Thankfully they didnt let me drive it and I have that much more money saved for a house. I bought my moms 02 accord with 8k cash and Im better off anyway.

I dont know if youre right, but Im not too proud that I would have made that kind of impulse buy now that I think about it. I was really hoping the Employee discount would be a deal I couldnt refuse at the time...