number77

Now I titled it X because we don't yet know what the hiperformance version of the Camaro will be called....but
http://www.stangnet.com/2005-Mustang...00-182006.html
They are saying it will have 475hp. I think that a LS7 equipt Camaro with 500hp from a naturally aspirated engine sounds a lot nicer than that rinky dink 475hp Mustang that needs a supercharger.

stars1010

Easy Math problem

X = Z/28

z280utlaw

If/when the Camaro comes back, it will continue to out perform the Mustang, in every category. Why? Because Ford can't compete, even there Ford GT needs a SuperCharger to make 550HP or so, when the Z06 is making 505HP, and running with it... without a SuperCharger, plus it's 100k less, and more economical. I mean come on? Who really wants a Ford GT when you can buy a faster, better looking car in my opinon, that's more economical, and has the Corvette tradition behind it, for 65-85k or so, compared to 150k+.

I think the Camaro will have a version of the LS7, if they build it. And it will outperform the GT500 all over the place, In my opinon, the Mustang is just a bandwagon car, they are common, not so fast, expensive to buy, and work on. I'm a Camaro guy, for the same reasons others are.

greg_nate

...don't forget that their top dog engine also has 32 valves. So to put it in perspective, they need 32 valves, 4 camshafts and a supercharger to compete with the General.

Whether or not the Camaro gets an LS7 is a good question. I think a lot depends on the evolution of the Vette. If rumor of a supercharged Vette turms out to be correct, I believe we might see an LS7 option in a top dog Camaro(whatever it ends up being called).

Ford has done an excellent job with their Mustang project. They have a single vehicle that can compete in the Pony class as well as the sports class. They have one car that can play against the Camaro as well as the Corvette. Pretty damned smart.

The new Cobra is supposed to be in the 3500 pound range. With 475 horsepower, this car should be able to outperform a base Vette. It will also be priced will under the Z06 price range, thus making it a wise choice for performance enthusiasts. These cars will be on the road this summer, stomping on 4th Gens, C5s and C6s. GM and DXC do not have an answer to this car - at least for another year and a half.

I don't like Mustangs and am a Chevy die-hard. But I have to admit that Ford's Mustang team is kicking ****.

GM only has one thing to offer in the interim - and that's a performance version of the GTO. However, I don't see this happening. GM's poor management, bureaucracy and conservatism will ensure the GTO remains an emasculated model - i.e., a potential super performer with its ***** chopped off.

And with gas prices still moving up, I am not sure GM can get to market fast enough to take advantage of what Ford is cleaning house with. By the time Camaro hits the streets, we could be looking at $3.50/gal gasoline and a public shift in performance demands. Its just too early to predict and so uncertain, that I don't even like to think about it.

MarcR94v6

Like I said in another thread, it costs GM less to make more power than any US automaker.

bossco

Yeah okay spot Ford 97 cubes and build a completely custom space frame and limited production body (as in a hand built chassis and body for less than 3,000 units) for the vette then we will talk about parity and as far as a car that can;t compete, its been in continous production for 41 years while its competion has come and gone and come again.

And as far as fast and inexpenisve and easy to work on, yeah they do that to, Can any of you guys change the plugs in a 4th gen LSx car in 20 to 30 minutes, how bout change the car form automatic to manual in a day?

Rag on Ford and mustang in particular if you want, but they must be doing something right? (as in a bunch of enthusiasts, several magazines, and several racing series devoted to what? Oh yeah one ****ed up retarded ****ty *** car)

Steve0

With that logic, there would be no market for exotic cars at all. Why buy a Ferrari F430 when the Z06 is faster, cheaper and gets better milage? Why a Lambo? Why a Porsche? I think we know the answers to those questions.

Anyways, I dunno about the top Camaro taking out the top Mustang. I think the Camaro will be the best bang for its buck in its class, but I really dont expect to see a $40,000 Camaro to compete with a $40,000 GT500...

I see Camaros topping off at the mid 30s. I believe that whatever the mid level Camaro is will whoop a Stang GT, and a 400+hp Camaro coming in at say, $33,000 would kick the price equivalent Mach 1/BOSS/whatever mid level mustang is out's butt too... but I dunno about the top dog stang. I believe that once you start crossing into the Vette's price range, you should just leave smotherign the competition up to the Vette.

Knowing that I could, and probably would modify the car, I'd rather have a top of the line Camaro with 85% of the GT500's capabilities for $10,000 less than bust my piggy bank trying to have the faster stock car.

5thGen

I honestly don't think the Camaro will get the LS7.

I would hope so, but don't think so.

In the 80s early 90s, top vette was the ZR-1 (LT-5?), not offered in the Camaro.
In the late 90s early 00s the top vette was the ZO6 LS6,not offered in the Camaro.

Sure there is the Shelby GT500, but there are already rumors that the relationship is already begining to fade again between Carrol and Ford.
By the time the Camaro comes out, the Shelby may be done and over with.

Then again the Z06 may jump from 505 to 550 by then, and we may see a 505 hp SS Camaro. Who really knows?

I am just saying we have not seen the top motor from Chevy offered in the Camaro for some time now, yes I'd like to see that change, but chances are it will not.

Even the 350 hp LS1 was detued for the 98-02 Camaros. So is 400 hp from the Camaro asking for too much? I hope not.

5thGen

And yes, I'd like to see a top gun Camaro with 500 hp to blow the doors off a Ford GT/ AMV8/ F430/Gallardo/911 Carrera S...... you get the idea. But that would have to be very limited in order not to step all over the toes of the Vette, and therefore very high priced. Who wants a $50,000 Camaro? Maybe a few hundred, then again maybe not. I think it'd sell enough to make a case, but it'd have to be on par with the Firehawk in 93, farmed out to a supplier able to handle low volumes and make a profit.

Birdman7389

I did the trans swap in a day

bossco

Hah Bird we will have to swap notes, I'd very interested as to whats invovled.

However my take on the whole camaro thing figures that you guys are gonna have a 400 hp 400 ft/lbs V8 car (I doubt anything less) for under or just under30 grand. As I pointed out to someone else on another board why would there be a mid to upper thirty something thousand priced camaro if GM has a mid thirties priced Goat?

Pandamonkey

If the Camaro were to ever recieve the LS7 it would more than likely be out performing the base Vette.

Which simply cannot be.

Unless the base Vette ends up getting a more powerful than the current Z06 engine........or the LS7 is detuned for the Fbody.

Can't see it happening either way.

Steve0

The last Camaro SS could easily sticker for $32,000 once you put on some options... and that was in 2002 dollars. A Z28 with a perferred option package and t-tops was at $27,500 or so before rebates. The SS package was around $4000 on top of that, without any of the SS options.

Look at what a fully optioned out Mustang GT costs. I'm sure you will be able to option a Camaro well over $30,000. How far, I'm not sure.. but nothing short of $40,000 would really suprise me.

I also dont think anyone really knows what direction GM is planning to go with the GTO other than more aggressive styling. I'm sure the cars will be different from each other however to prevent sales cannibalism.

Mighty

I don't understand all you guys who say that. They don't NEED to have the supercharger. It's just an easier way to get more horsepower. Do you honestly believe that they couldn't build an engine that's bigger and better than the 5.4 that's currently in the GT?

pickardracing

Agreed.

You guys that **** and moan about a supercharger need to get a clue.

Supercharging gives you more efficient power, greater streetability, and better efficiency than a comparably powered NA car.

Christ. Anything to **** and moan.