Camaro Fuel Economy
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 13,713
From: The Golden State
That's my point. There is a reason that no stylish 2-door hybrid coupe exists today. Hybrids need to be highly aerodynamic and lightweight in order to offset the extra weight of the battery pack. As ugly as the Prius is, it is highly aerodynamic. I honestly don't see this Camaro fitting the basic criteria of a hybrid.
The only basic criteria for something being a Hybrid is that it has 2 sources of propulsion.
Hybrids currently on the US market (besides Prius):
*Toyota Camry
*Lexus LS600H
*Mercury Mariner
*Chevrolet Malibu
*Saturn Vue
*Honda Civic
*Lexus GS450H
*Toyota Highlander
*Mazda Tribute
*Nissan Altima
*Ford Escape
*Saturn Aura
*Lexus RX400H
*GMC Yukon
*Chevrolet Tahoe
*Chevrolet Silverado (upcoming)
*Dodge Durango (due out in a few months)
On top of this, Toyota will have a Hybrid option on every vehicle in a few years, Chrysler will have a Hybrid version of Hemi powered trucks and LX cars, also in a few years. GM will also be expanding Hybrid options to a number of vehicles within the next couple of years.
Note none are especially lightweight over their gasoline versions & none are especially aerodynamic next to their gasoline versions.
Given a choice between SUVs, trucks, near-luxury cars, and sedans, I'd bet a Hybrid Camaro would capture a far greater chunk of single young people, especially if it costs no more than a Malibu hybrid.
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 13,713
From: The Golden State
Again, the issue is about the most cost effective way for car manufacturers to get CAFE numbers up, not what diesel fuel costs. If they decide they can get 45 mpg using a diesel cheaper or at the same price of getting 40 mpg with a hybrid, unless they get credits for hybrids that they don't get with diesels, they're going to choose diesel.
Another thing is that the fuel economy of a diesel more than makes up it's price difference versus a car that requires premium, and does very well (if not better) next to regular gasoline since you use far less of it to go each mile.
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 1,512
From: Miami, FL, US
Times are changing... like ir or not.. the same thing that worked 10 years ago... don't work now.. and from 10 years from now.. won't work either. A hybrid camaro is an option that GM most NOT take lightly. There are PLENTY of people that would take the style of the camaro with the gas mileage of a hybrid. There will always be hardcore enthusiast that will want the V8 and or top dog. I wouldn't mind a top dog that was a turbo v6 as long as the performance is there.
Hydrogen Camaro FTW!!!!
Registered User
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 2,947
From: Springfield,OH. U.S.A.
(My Opinions..)
I would buy a Turbo Diesel Camaro way before I'd even test drive a Hybrid, as in, electric/gas, Camaro...for better power and milage.
There are already turbo diesels getting higher milage than electric/hybrids like Prius, and way more fun (power) to drive!
Also, battery strip mining and recycling and disposal, offset any environmental impact of the increased gas milage...even recycling requires more energy and resources to accomplish.
...kinda like the fluoresent "twisty" bulbs popular now, what most aren't told is EVERY BULB conatins MERCURY, and is supposed to be disposed of in your area's toxic waste drop off, NEVER IN THE TRASH...but landfills are getting plenty of mercury bulbs, which offsets the useage of the bulb.
And if you break one in your home, and breathe the dust, you may have to undergo kelation theropy to get the Mercury out of your body.
NO...I'll stick to plain, simple combustion, until hydrogen is perfected...
I would buy a Turbo Diesel Camaro way before I'd even test drive a Hybrid, as in, electric/gas, Camaro...for better power and milage.
There are already turbo diesels getting higher milage than electric/hybrids like Prius, and way more fun (power) to drive!
Also, battery strip mining and recycling and disposal, offset any environmental impact of the increased gas milage...even recycling requires more energy and resources to accomplish.
...kinda like the fluoresent "twisty" bulbs popular now, what most aren't told is EVERY BULB conatins MERCURY, and is supposed to be disposed of in your area's toxic waste drop off, NEVER IN THE TRASH...but landfills are getting plenty of mercury bulbs, which offsets the useage of the bulb.
And if you break one in your home, and breathe the dust, you may have to undergo kelation theropy to get the Mercury out of your body.
NO...I'll stick to plain, simple combustion, until hydrogen is perfected...
Disciple
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 99
From: New Orleans, LA
i agree... what about a hydrogen fuel cell Camaro?? i wonder how that test fleet of Equinoxes is doing? i know the word "hybrid" has a better ring to it among the masses... maybe GM can come up with a catchy name for the hydrogen fuel cell cars.
not that i would buy one cuz i am like you guys. i want my good ol' combustion engine... but those damn "greenies" are everywhere.
not that i would buy one cuz i am like you guys. i want my good ol' combustion engine... but those damn "greenies" are everywhere.
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 9,705
From: Oakland, California
I'm doubt the Malibu is any more aerodynamic than the Camaro, I'd hope it's less, actually. And it's certainly less than the Prius. And they've got the Ecotec-based Hybrid system in the Saturn Vue, which weighs in at a hefty 3800 lbs (Camaro shouldn't be any more than that with the V8)
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 9,705
From: Oakland, California
Hybrids are pet rocks 
You guys don't get it. Look how far the transportation industry has advanced in the last 100 years. Hybrids are just the start of a new era. Battery and motor technology are evolving at a fantastic rate. Hell, look how far we have come since the days of the 70's electric cars. They were just a fad then. Now they are becoming mainstream in the form of hybrids. If someone told you that you could have a high performance car that could drive 500 miles on a single charge, could recharge in 15 minutes and cost less than a conventional car, I bet you would jump at the chance to buy it.
Fifteen years from now this technology will be doing things we would think impossible now. The internal combustion engine is just a chapter in our technological progression. A hundred years from now we will probably only see them in museums.
You guys don't get it. Look how far the transportation industry has advanced in the last 100 years. Hybrids are just the start of a new era. Battery and motor technology are evolving at a fantastic rate. Hell, look how far we have come since the days of the 70's electric cars. They were just a fad then. Now they are becoming mainstream in the form of hybrids. If someone told you that you could have a high performance car that could drive 500 miles on a single charge, could recharge in 15 minutes and cost less than a conventional car, I bet you would jump at the chance to buy it.
Fifteen years from now this technology will be doing things we would think impossible now. The internal combustion engine is just a chapter in our technological progression. A hundred years from now we will probably only see them in museums.
Hybrid cars history is tied to Dr. Ferdinand Porsche, who developed the first successful hybrid car.
The world's first hybrid car was Lohner-Porsche petrol-electric "Mixte", built by Ferdinand Porsche at age 27, in 1902.
Porsche gave the nickname "Aunt Eulalia" to the first series of the hybrids, but the official name was Semper Vivus, meaning "always alive".
The first hybrid car used a petrol engine, which rotated at a constant speed to drive a dynamo, which then charged accumulators.
Then, the accumulators fed current to electric motors contained within the hubs of the front wheels.
The hybrid cars quickly became a success. Thousands of hybrid cars were produced in the years between 1902 and 1920, by companies such as Krieger, Lohner-Porsche, and Auto-Mixte.
However, by 1920 Ford motor company's efficient assembly line manufacturing and the introduction of the self-starting gas engine resulted in a rapid decline for hybrid car production.
The world's first hybrid car was Lohner-Porsche petrol-electric "Mixte", built by Ferdinand Porsche at age 27, in 1902.
Porsche gave the nickname "Aunt Eulalia" to the first series of the hybrids, but the official name was Semper Vivus, meaning "always alive".
The first hybrid car used a petrol engine, which rotated at a constant speed to drive a dynamo, which then charged accumulators.
Then, the accumulators fed current to electric motors contained within the hubs of the front wheels.
The hybrid cars quickly became a success. Thousands of hybrid cars were produced in the years between 1902 and 1920, by companies such as Krieger, Lohner-Porsche, and Auto-Mixte.
However, by 1920 Ford motor company's efficient assembly line manufacturing and the introduction of the self-starting gas engine resulted in a rapid decline for hybrid car production.
Hybrids are nothing new. They are an old idea in a pretty new wrapper with a "GREEN" stamp on them just to make them attractive.
Don't get me wrong. As an interim fix they are fine. However they don't really do anything to save the environment and are a band-aid fix until a time when full electric and hydrogen vehicles become more viable. Their life span is 15-20 years tops. (Assuming we can fix the electric & hydrogen issues.)
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 9,705
From: Oakland, California
The only basic criteria for something being a Hybrid is that it has 2 sources of propulsion.
On top of this, Toyota will have a Hybrid option on every vehicle in a few years, Chrysler will have a Hybrid version of Hemi powered trucks and LX cars, also in a few years. GM will also be expanding Hybrid options to a number of vehicles within the next couple of years.
Note none are especially lightweight over their gasoline versions & none are especially aerodynamic next to their gasoline versions.
Given a choice between SUVs, trucks, near-luxury cars, and sedans, I'd bet a Hybrid Camaro would capture a far greater chunk of single young people, especially if it costs no more than a Malibu hybrid.
On top of this, Toyota will have a Hybrid option on every vehicle in a few years, Chrysler will have a Hybrid version of Hemi powered trucks and LX cars, also in a few years. GM will also be expanding Hybrid options to a number of vehicles within the next couple of years.
Note none are especially lightweight over their gasoline versions & none are especially aerodynamic next to their gasoline versions.
Given a choice between SUVs, trucks, near-luxury cars, and sedans, I'd bet a Hybrid Camaro would capture a far greater chunk of single young people, especially if it costs no more than a Malibu hybrid.
Because it gets CAFE numbers up.
Again, the issue is about the most cost effective way for car manufacturers to get CAFE numbers up, not what diesel fuel costs. If they decide they can get 45 mpg using a diesel cheaper or at the same price of getting 40 mpg with a hybrid, unless they get credits for hybrids that they don't get with diesels, they're going to choose diesel.
Another thing is that the fuel economy of a diesel more than makes up it's price difference versus a car that requires premium, and does very well (if not better) next to regular gasoline since you use far less of it to go each mile.
Again, the issue is about the most cost effective way for car manufacturers to get CAFE numbers up, not what diesel fuel costs. If they decide they can get 45 mpg using a diesel cheaper or at the same price of getting 40 mpg with a hybrid, unless they get credits for hybrids that they don't get with diesels, they're going to choose diesel.
Another thing is that the fuel economy of a diesel more than makes up it's price difference versus a car that requires premium, and does very well (if not better) next to regular gasoline since you use far less of it to go each mile.
You know what I want to see? I want to see a manufacturer produce a diesel hybrid. Allow it to run on biodiesel and heck put a turbo on it to improve performance. That would be something to chirp about. However at the moment GM doesn't have such a drivetrain developed to a point where they can offer it in the Camaro. Could they develop one? Sure, but even then they would be re-engineering the car to fit the hybrid drivetrain. That's pisspoor engineering IMHO. I'd much rather see a car developed from the ground up around the technology, like the Volt. Who knows, maybe they'll offer a 2-door version a few years after the 4-door. However to slap a hybrid into the Camaro in order to be "greener" has failure written all over it. Maybe I'm wrong, however the engineer in me thinks otherwise. Only time will tell.
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 9,705
From: Oakland, California
P.S.
Looks like VW is close.
http://blog.wired.com/cars/2008/03/revealed-volksw.html
I'm sure it could easily run on biodiesel and solar panels could be installed on the roof to assist in recharging the batteries.
Last edited by jg95z28; Apr 29, 2008 at 01:52 PM. Reason: Link Added
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,897
From: Greenville, SC
This is getting off topic, but GM NEEDS an 82-93 "sized" S-10 truck! The Colorado has had a decent run, but it's time to get back into the small truck market, if they don't, it could possibly be taken away from them by imports from india and china...
A QUALITY 82-93 S-10 sized truck with avalanche/tahoe styling with the ecotech motors and a DIESEL option would be sweet. They'd catch everyone else with their pants down I'd be willing to bet they would sell very well.
A QUALITY 82-93 S-10 sized truck with avalanche/tahoe styling with the ecotech motors and a DIESEL option would be sweet. They'd catch everyone else with their pants down
I'd be willing to bet they would sell very well.
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,000
From: TX Med Ctr
guionM pretty much echoed what I was thinking when I posted about a diesel Camaro. The one other added bonus would be that with a little tuning you would have so much torque you would need drag radials to go to the grocery store.
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 13,713
From: The Golden State
(My Opinions..)
I would buy a Turbo Diesel Camaro way before I'd even test drive a Hybrid, as in, electric/gas, Camaro...for better power and milage.
There are already turbo diesels getting higher milage than electric/hybrids like Prius, and way more fun (power) to drive!
Also, battery strip mining and recycling and disposal, offset any environmental impact of the increased gas milage...even recycling requires more energy and resources to accomplish.
...kinda like the fluoresent "twisty" bulbs popular now, what most aren't told is EVERY BULB conatins MERCURY, and is supposed to be disposed of in your area's toxic waste drop off, NEVER IN THE TRASH...but landfills are getting plenty of mercury bulbs, which offsets the useage of the bulb.
And if you break one in your home, and breathe the dust, you may have to undergo kelation theropy to get the Mercury out of your body.
NO...I'll stick to plain, simple combustion, until hydrogen is perfected...
I would buy a Turbo Diesel Camaro way before I'd even test drive a Hybrid, as in, electric/gas, Camaro...for better power and milage.
There are already turbo diesels getting higher milage than electric/hybrids like Prius, and way more fun (power) to drive!
Also, battery strip mining and recycling and disposal, offset any environmental impact of the increased gas milage...even recycling requires more energy and resources to accomplish.
...kinda like the fluoresent "twisty" bulbs popular now, what most aren't told is EVERY BULB conatins MERCURY, and is supposed to be disposed of in your area's toxic waste drop off, NEVER IN THE TRASH...but landfills are getting plenty of mercury bulbs, which offsets the useage of the bulb.
And if you break one in your home, and breathe the dust, you may have to undergo kelation theropy to get the Mercury out of your body.
NO...I'll stick to plain, simple combustion, until hydrogen is perfected...
I could easily go into a barrage of similar hysteria on just about any subject involving any manufacturer.
Last edited by guionM; Apr 30, 2008 at 01:22 AM.
Registered User
Joined: Nov 1998
Posts: 3,252
From: Knoxville, TN
This is getting off topic, but GM NEEDS an 82-93 "sized" S-10 truck! The Colorado has had a decent run, but it's time to get back into the small truck market, if they don't, it could possibly be taken away from them by imports from india and china...
A QUALITY 82-93 S-10 sized truck with avalanche/tahoe styling with the ecotech motors and a DIESEL option would be sweet. They'd catch everyone else with their pants down I'd be willing to bet they would sell very well.
A QUALITY 82-93 S-10 sized truck with avalanche/tahoe styling with the ecotech motors and a DIESEL option would be sweet. They'd catch everyone else with their pants down
I'd be willing to bet they would sell very well.Just don't ask me to pull out into traffic with any sort of a load.....a man's got to know his limitations.
Bob