I have a few questions, if you guys don't mind; Would the standard windows and other accessories really be much lighter than powered ones?
Can you have a really small lightweight radio with speakers that would make the weight question negligible?

 

Ok. i'll try...

Reasons for a higher performance Camaro ...

"supposed SRT8 Fighter" (i say it like that because the SS seems to be able to do that on its own.)

GT500 Fighter. No more mustang being fastest "pony car"

possible M3 fighter?

not to mention the Skyline fighter, or the new supra fighter if it ever comes out.. appeal to the euro speed crowd, appeal to the import crowd as well..

appealing to road racers, scca, drag, etc...

competition... pure and simple competition.. if the camaro gets an UBER version, then the folks who would buy vettes would get better vettes to, simply cause the vette group doesnt let camaros be faster/more hp supposedly.. not to mention the thigns that the other manufacturers would be trying to do as well. competition makes things better. time and time again. Imagine being able to put a z/28 against the best from all the continents, and have it come up 1st or within the top 5 cars in its class in the world..

very much like what it sounds like chevy did with putting the 300hp v6 in it..

Reasons against :

High price to produce the performance?
increase of weight because of added performance?
limited number of buyers, because of higher price tag as well?


The basics of the car are there.. but if you put on polymer or carbon fiber or alloy parts to lighten the whole car, the weight may actually go down, instead of up..



That being said..

*IF* a z/28 was to be built, following say a z06 ish formula, you'd be bringing in the buyers of GT500's and SRT8 challenger/chargers etc, back to the chevy camp.. especially if you can do it under the price of the SRT8's and GT500s..

If you were to say put the ls7 in the z/28, delete onstar, increase the suspension, add a few super light parts, like a fiberglass hood and fenders, and stuff to lighten/ increase performance i think it would really appeal in limited quantities. even if we use the "5000" per year number that was thrown around, at 40k a car, with 500 or more hp, better suspension and handling, and a bit lighter i think it would really go quick. special options to denote it as a Z/28 too, would mean that those who wanted the z/28 to be what it was in the past, and yet still get the modern things too....

again im not in the car business, so i dont know if any of it can even be done, but its just some of my thoughts as to why to DO it.

 

I'll point out that plastic as it was used on the 4th gens and Saturns is NOT lighter. That method required a steel supporting substructure. The plastic was only a skin.

If you want it to be light, you need to do it as a monocoque type of design like the Corvette (think of the steel rear fenders on a 4th gen).

 

oh and one more thing.. if you say that for one second folks wont pay more for a UBER camaro, your wrong..look at GMMG and the Dick harrell Super camaros, or the Carl Black Blackbirds or the Berger /hot rod camaros in the F4..

Roush mustang?
saleen?
steeda?

all uber mustangs.. all HIGH priced cars..

Camaro will get this too i bet.. but it'd be nice to have an UBER camaro from Chevy, and then even more UBER building on that from others. picture taking a Z/28 with 500+ stock hp to GMMG and letting them play with it and selling it... it'd have some ungodly 800+ hp by the time they were done i can imagine..

 

I'm torn. Torn because I'm not even sure a 'proper Z/28' can even be spun off of this car. And by proper, I'm not talking about a Camaro GT500.

First things first. Save the Z/28 moniker the embarassment and let it go on hiatus, if this car cannot lose significant weight - 300 pounds less than an SS. And I'd be willing to pay a premium for that. Do it through content limiting, de-gimmicking that bizzaro interior and using light weight components wherever possible. I'm no engineer, so it's hard for me to cogently go into specific detail on what/how/which regarding weight loss. What I am though, is a potential buyer, and I'm willing to pay more for less mass. Yes I'll pay my share for the mass reduction developement work you'll need to start doing on all your future vehicles anyway. Consider the Z/28 a technology and methods demonstrator for weight loss.

The Z/28 isn't about big honkin', nose heavy, supercharged motors. It's about magnificently compact, free revving, hotly tuned, normally aspirated, smallblocks. I mean geez-o-pete. Massage the LS3 with a hotter cam/valvetrain, exhaust, and freer flowing intake - and take the SEVERAL THOUSAND DOLLARS you have just saved over the LSA, and put it towards further weight loss. And you don't have to charge me less for it either.

Lightest wheels, biggest brakes, least compromised suspension tune, lowest ride height, best steering feel, shortest throw shifter, most supportive seats, etc.

One more thing. Coupe only. Stick only. This needs to be a focused package, no watering it down with autos and convertibles. Do NOT be afraid to focus this car. Like the Z06, alittle focus makes people want to buy.

I can be reached for further comments, you know where to find me.....

 

With a $12 million budget, all you are going to get is a big honkin engine. It costs too much to decontent a car. The supercharger and intercooler will add weight, so look forward to a 4000lb beast.

 

Yeah, those 95% will be buying Porky Pig (Camaro LS/LT/SS).

 

As opposed the thousands of 1le cars, and stripper 4th gen z28's they sold from 98-2002.

 

I need some more info.

One person said to decontent the car -- remove the air cond. and such -- and they'd "fly off the lots" -- how MANY would fly off the lots. I need detail. See-- it's easy to make the statement "They will fly off the lots" -- but if the investment is 20 million (minimum, by the way-- and that doesn't buy much...)-- how MANY have to fly off the lots????? WHERE do these people come from?

Plastic isn't the answer --- it can actually add weight -- and further, the expense to tool is higher. ( the savings comes in changing the tool for mid-cycle enhancements) --further, you can't pull in the body fits because SMC expands and contracts......... The Corvette uses them because it has a robust 'backbone' in the center tunnel. Believe me -- we looked at that possibility -- and the costs would put the car at a substantial disadvantage to the Mustang -- and that's simply too great a risk.

Let me ask you this: do you believe that all three domestic manufacturers would purposely build a heavy car knowing that CAFE has been breathing down our necks -- and is now a nightmare?

Lastly -- kudos to the person who rightly pointed out going back to the third gen formula -- the third gen would not pass any current standards, --- and as much as I liked them, they are primitive in many cases -- esp. structural rigidity -- they were great back then -- but it's a new century.

 

Well, so much for a lesser weight Z28 in the near future.

 

I think Scott erased any doubt that they did everything they could to make this car what it is.

One thing I would like to add is the price of a Corvette. I'm sure everybody knows this but I consistently hear "well the Corvette has it" or "the Corvette weighs XXX pounds less" so Chevy could have done it.
Corvette Coupe- $47,000 Corvette Z06- $72,000

If they could sell enough cars at $40,000+ I'm sure they could have done more to reduce weight. But then what is the point of the Camaro? You might as well get a vette.

As far as C's in college, that is technically average but I would call it below average in this current day and age. Either way, average does not describe beating the competition and it certainly doesn't describe the Camaro. I am very happy for you that you work in the transportation industry and are the best employee in the best company so let's build on that. General Motors is the number one auto manufacturer. They put what I believe, are the perfect people for the job on the Camaro team. The team members understood what Camaro means to people and they also understood the importance of making it into what it is today. They did the same thing you do-they know what is right and stand up for it. Like when they were told to change the quarter panel design because it was too difficult to manufacture-they argued and said no, it needs to be like this to capture the image of Camaro. I quote, "I like being the best. I'm driven to be the best." Well in my opinion and everyone else who has driven it- The Camaro is the best.

 

the 69 z28 was not exactly rare nor was it really a race car...you could add the rs pakage in 69 to a z28 with all the fancy interiors and such..therefore...throw on a 4 to 6ish psi supercharger on the ss and sticker on a few retro badges and you will have your z28...msrp the damn thing at $45k and let the dealer add on $10kadm...lightweight..forget it..stripper...forget it (like who would buy without air)...no way GM throws up a pseudo race car for you guys...its just aint gonna happen and the people who matter all have hemroids by now anyhow...

 

How hard is it to take a backbone design like the Corvette and stretch it to a four seater?

 

Minor nit -- Other than the GTR, Nissan has a single FR platform for all their Infinitis + the 350Z. But they have a V6 and a V8 variant that allows the V6 models to be quite a bit lighter than the V8s. I suppose that's why a top 350Z is only 3500 pounds instead of 3700.

The M45 weighs pretty much the same as the G8, and the G37 coupe is only a bit lighter than the V6 Camaro (magazine tests have it a bit over 3700 pounds).

Where the Nissan FM platform really has an advantage over the GM Zeta/Sigma is in the smaller models, where the CTS weighs a good 350 pounds more than a G35 sedan. But for V8s, Zeta is pretty close to FM.

Supposedly the new 350Z will be lighter than the current one. We'll see....

 

If I'm starting today on a Gen6 Camaro for sale in 2014, the business case is focused on expensive gasoline, CO2 emission standards, and CAFE.

If a V8 is essential to the Camaro, then I see if I can possibly shoehorn that into the platform being developed for the small RWD Cadillac. I'll figure that volume won't be high due to the above, so this will be a bit tricky.

It'd have to be all about piggybacking on development done for higher volume or higher margin cars. I'd also enlist my friends from Holden to add their volume.

I don't think removing A/C or power windows is a good idea. Those systems are much lighter than the were, and almost no one buys a car today without them. Maybe Chevy could try copying Porsche and BMW, building a lightweight model where they charge you extra for taking equipment out. I have my doubts about the business case for that one.