2011 Camaro info
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 224
From: wilmington de
Actually it is a brilliant marketing ploy.
Most of the general population is idiots and will eat this up. And to compound this, this is a car for the V6 segment. No offense to V6 guys. Just most sales are going to non car enthusiast people.
GM will be able to say they have more hp.
Although I believe they should focus on MPG for the V6 segment.
It is good for marketing though.
Most of the general population is idiots and will eat this up. And to compound this, this is a car for the V6 segment. No offense to V6 guys. Just most sales are going to non car enthusiast people.
GM will be able to say they have more hp.
Although I believe they should focus on MPG for the V6 segment.
It is good for marketing though.
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 604
From: Elgin,SC
It actually looks like it was.
http://media.gm.com/content/media/us...pr/0408_Camaro
The V6-powered Camaro uses a 3.6L engine with variable valve timing to optimize performance and fuel economy. It is SAE-certified at 304 horsepower (227 kW) and 273 lb.-ft. of torque (370 Nm).
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,000
From: TX Med Ctr
Not exactly. If it is certified they can publish a rating as long as it is within +/- 1% of the test engine result. So if your test engine made 500HP you could advertise it as 495HP if you wanted...
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 604
From: Elgin,SC
But I guess someone will have to reverse engineer a 2011 to see if their are real changes.
Chevy admitted to conservatively rating the motor. Under the SAE rules that means they had around 3 hp to do that with, give or take a few hundredths.
Who knows maybe their is a loop hole where you can certify on different octane of gases and use what numbers you want to.
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 9,507
From: Okemos, MI
The obvious truth is that SAE certification doesn't set a lower limit on what you can advertise.
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 604
From: Elgin,SC
I'm pretty sure I had it right and you don't. Otherwise, how do you explain that 304hp was SAE certified, and now without changing anything, 312hp (an increase of 2.6%) is SAE certified?
The obvious truth is that SAE certification doesn't set a lower limit on what you can advertise.
The obvious truth is that SAE certification doesn't set a lower limit on what you can advertise.
It looks like they might have rated the V6 used in the Camaro in the Cadillac CTS application and used that rating when they threw it in the Camaro. And the Camaro could have slight differences like a freer flowing exhaust, etc.. They might now just be certifying the motor in the Camaro application.
Super Moderator
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 9,507
From: Okemos, MI
Well I threw myself for another loop.
It looks like they might have rated the V6 used in the Camaro in the Cadillac CTS application and used that rating when they threw it in the Camaro. And the Camaro could have slight differences like a freer flowing exhaust, etc.. They might now just be certifying the motor in the Camaro application.
It looks like they might have rated the V6 used in the Camaro in the Cadillac CTS application and used that rating when they threw it in the Camaro. And the Camaro could have slight differences like a freer flowing exhaust, etc.. They might now just be certifying the motor in the Camaro application.
Does the CTS have true duals like Camaro does?
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,000
From: TX Med Ctr
I'm pretty sure I had it right and you don't. Otherwise, how do you explain that 304hp was SAE certified, and now without changing anything, 312hp (an increase of 2.6%) is SAE certified?
The obvious truth is that SAE certification doesn't set a lower limit on what you can advertise.
The obvious truth is that SAE certification doesn't set a lower limit on what you can advertise.
Originally Posted by Car and Driver
A new twist to the horsepower standard is a practice called "SAE certified." Under this optional program, an automaker allows an SAE-designated third-party witness to verify that an engine produces the advertised figure. Engines that have undergone this procedure carry the badge "SAE certified."
Since minute differences in the dimensions of engine components that naturally occur during series production—the compression ratio could be a smidge higher in one engine versus another—can result in two identical-looking engines making slightly different horsepower, the SAE allows a one-percent tolerance between the number that the witness observes and the horsepower rating that a manufacturer chooses to publish. For example, according to DaimlerChrysler's senior manager of SRT Powertrain, Pete Gladysz, Dodge rates its Viper V-10 at 510 horsepower, even though a randomly selected V-10 that was plucked from the assembly line and broken in according to DC's usual cycle developed 512 horsepower on the dyno run for the designated witness. Sometimes a bunch of components are at the outer edge of production tolerances, and the combination hurts the engine's output. Sometimes they help it. The 0.4-percent difference between the V-10's observed output and its rating lies well within the SAE's allowable tolerance band. In fact, Dodge could have rated the engine at 517 horsepower and still met the SAE's one-percent tolerance. "But we'd rather deliver more than we promise," said Gladysz
Since minute differences in the dimensions of engine components that naturally occur during series production—the compression ratio could be a smidge higher in one engine versus another—can result in two identical-looking engines making slightly different horsepower, the SAE allows a one-percent tolerance between the number that the witness observes and the horsepower rating that a manufacturer chooses to publish. For example, according to DaimlerChrysler's senior manager of SRT Powertrain, Pete Gladysz, Dodge rates its Viper V-10 at 510 horsepower, even though a randomly selected V-10 that was plucked from the assembly line and broken in according to DC's usual cycle developed 512 horsepower on the dyno run for the designated witness. Sometimes a bunch of components are at the outer edge of production tolerances, and the combination hurts the engine's output. Sometimes they help it. The 0.4-percent difference between the V-10's observed output and its rating lies well within the SAE's allowable tolerance band. In fact, Dodge could have rated the engine at 517 horsepower and still met the SAE's one-percent tolerance. "But we'd rather deliver more than we promise," said Gladysz
Well I threw myself for another loop.
It looks like they might have rated the V6 used in the Camaro in the Cadillac CTS application and used that rating when they threw it in the Camaro. And the Camaro could have slight differences like a freer flowing exhaust, etc.. They might now just be certifying the motor in the Camaro application.
It looks like they might have rated the V6 used in the Camaro in the Cadillac CTS application and used that rating when they threw it in the Camaro. And the Camaro could have slight differences like a freer flowing exhaust, etc.. They might now just be certifying the motor in the Camaro application.
Originally Posted by Tom Sutter
The 304 horsepower in the 2010 Camaro was actually a conservative rating on our end...But we knew already that this award-winning engine produced at least the amount of power we stated, but now we’ve gone the extra step in certifying the engine for this application and have verified an additional 8 horsepower.
Last edited by HAZ-Matt; Apr 9, 2010 at 08:06 AM.
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 295
From: The mitten state
Well, I'm happy as heck, because HUD is the one option that I really wanted to have. The car has everything else I would ever need. Big deal if it's not the fast car out there on the road, even though it is probably damn close for it's price range. No matter what, it is not going to win the fastest production car on the market, I just don't understand why some people can't seem to come to grips with that.
