Possible 5th gen news from a very reliable source

Okay, I have it from my most accurate source that GM is studying the possiblility of producing the GTO, the Holden Ute (As an El Camino) and another Chevrolet CAR at the Linden New Jersey plant beginning in 2006. This would both help the strained Elizabeth City plant in Austrailia, and appease the UAW at the same time.

Think about it, 2006ish is supposed to be the debut of the new affordable RWD platform, and all of these vehicles would be RWD and 2 door. Not to count this would allow the Camaro to go back to more of a 1st gen like configuration.

This is ample time for a Camaro to be approved and designed.... The hard engineering work only takes 12-18 months.

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"THE F_O_G HAS RISEN, AND WITH IT BEGINS THE DAWN OF A NEW ERA."

1967-2002, Thanks for 35 years of prestige and performance...... We look forward to the FUTURE.

[This message has been edited by FUTURE_OF_GM (edited June 18, 2002).]

[This message has been edited by FUTURE_OF_GM (edited June 18, 2002).]

It could also be a Monte Carlo (sigh).

But I suppose if this is true and a Camaro doesn't make it to the plant, then the future Camaro outlook is not good at all.

Who knows... at least it's a new rumor.

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If it breaks, it wasn't high performance enough.

2001 Mustang Bullitt GT (http://mywebpages.comcast.net/thill294318MI/welcome2.htm)
2000 Jetta M5

BUT The Monte Carlo is currently still supposed to be built on a modified W-body, and since the Quebec plant is so efficient I don't see the Monte relocating any time soon.

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"THE F_O_G HAS RISEN, AND WITH IT BEGINS THE DAWN OF A NEW ERA."

1967-2002, Thanks for 35 years of prestige and performance...... We look forward to the FUTURE.

Any word on which platform would be used?

I think I am going to drive by to Linden tomorrow and check it out. =)

Wow, will be nice to know, well, It would be nice if Camaro's would be made 30 mins from where I live!

go chevy! go chevy! It's your birthday, its your birthday, hehe.

Ok, getting too excited.

But actually, this would make sense, because the people in NJ have petitioned to GM to keep that plant alive because it was to be closed in 2005 or 2006.

This was in the paper, I want to find the article.

Because this plant, and also a Ford plant in a nearby town were going to close.

I really hope this is true.

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93 Patriot Red Z28 - A4, 3.23 Gears
*Mods*: Hooker Super Competition Catback, Holley 58MM Throttle Body, Holley Powershot Filter, 160* Thermostat, A. Anderson Programming Chip, Aeromaks Cold Air Intake System

Audio: JVC KDSH77 HU, Infiniti Kappa 6.5"
Max's Patriot Red 93 Z

Time: 14.052@98.23, 2.193 60', Street Tires, Hot & Humid

I assume it would use the same "Value" version of the Sigma that Commodore is going to use.

Well, this would make a lot of sense... definatly an 'eyebrow lifter' to say the least http://web.camaross.com/bb/smile.gif

Yeah, assuming the GTO would be on the new sigma-lite platform by then (current Holden platform will be quite old by 2006), then there's no reason the plant could not produce Camaros, which we pretty much already know will be on sigma-lite if built at all.

And taking a leap here, if the blurb from a few weeks ago that if the GTO name flops, Firebird could return, then we'd have Camaro and Firebird back in 06 or 07, both on a modified sigma chassis.

Sounds great, but the 5 year wait is going to be excruciating.

Ford has the market on Police cars. If Chevy was smart it would bring back a full size RWD car.

The Impala is a discgrace to the name and the idea of the Wrong-Wheel-Drive Impala SS makes my stomach turn.

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'93 Camaro Z28 Automatic with a ZL1 hood.
No bottle.
No blower.
383 cubic inch serving of horsepower...hold the rice please.
Thats all you need to know.
ICQ: 23984221
Gripenfelter's Homepage (http://pages.sprint.ca/Gripenfelter)

Disclaimer: The opinions expressed by me are not necessarily supported or indicative of the Government of Canada or any other Federal Employee.

**********UPDATE**********

Okay, the source that broke this news said he would lean towards Monte Carlo http://web.camaross.com/bb/frown.gif BUT he also said they would likely use the VE chassis for this venture. If this prove true, then another plant could come online to produce a Camaro, and a RWD sedan for possibly 2 GM divisions. He also said North America production of the VE could easily surpass 500,000 units annually. I'm assuming that what he means by this is the Camaro could have more sales flexibility, as costs would be spread around a lot better.

Other theories have the said vehicle being a limited production Chevelle or something of that nature, or maybe a Caprice, with alternative fuel capabilities, for fleet sales.

Even though this may just prove to be another rumor, it is GOOD NEWS because it is news about the move to RWD any many doors opening for the new Camaro program.

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"THE F_O_G HAS RISEN, AND WITH IT BEGINS THE DAWN OF A NEW ERA."

1967-2002, Thanks for 35 years of prestige and performance...... We look forward to the FUTURE.

[This message has been edited by FUTURE_OF_GM (edited June 19, 2002).]

Whatever comes out of this rumor is promising because of the RWD angle. Let's hope that GM gets it's a$$ in gear and starts turning out some affordable RWD performance cars. How cool would an American built Chevelle and GTO be? http://web.camaross.com/bb/biggrin.gif

And F.O.G., nice post. It's nice to be getting back to the original intent of this board.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by FUTURE_OF_GM:
... and since the Quebec plant is so efficient I don't see the Monte relocating any time soon.</font>

Oshawa is in Ontario, eh http://web.camaross.com/bb/smile.gif?



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2000 Z28, Arctic White, Ebony leather, A4, 2.73, RS-A, 13.3 @ 105.9 stock

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by HuJass:
...And F.O.G., nice post. It's nice to be getting back to the original intent of this board...</font>


My thoughts exactly!! Thanks for the post F.O.G.!

Just a side note about Monte Carlo. Bob Lutz cancelled the next generation FWD W-chassis Monte Carlo some time ago. I read this to mean only 2 things. Either Monte Carlo will be cancelled after 2006, or it will be on a RWD version of the "mid-lux" (it's not called "sigma lite") chassis due aroud that time.

Also another side note. There is no basis to the "if GTO fails Firebird will come back" senario. This is like saying if Monte Carlo fails, then Camaro will come back. Sounds pretty silly doesn't it?

We are talking about 2 separate market segments here. Besides, as Pontiac moves toward being the "American BMW", a hot handling, hot performing GTO is the perfect competitor to BMW's M3 coupe. There is very little support in Pontiac for another Firebird (in contrast to Chevrolet chomping at the bit!), though just like the 1st Firebirds, it can still join the program after all the work is done for very little cost.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by guionM:
. Either Monte Carlo will be cancelled after 2006, or it will be on a RWD version of the "mid-lux" (it's not called "sigma lite") chassis due aroud that time.

</font>

Hey Guion,
Isn't the Mid-Lux based on the updated FWD W-body...or have things changed?

(DISCLAIMER: These are all more or less either rumors I've heard and/or my opinions as somebody who observes the auto industry with much interest. I welcome and encourage any criticism/flames/anything you've got.)

The "Mid-Lux" is a platform that's long been in development (or at least in planning). I've been hearing about it for the past three years at least! I believe for a while it was rumored to be a new rear-wheel drive platform, and then the news was that it was going to be the next-generation midsize FWD platform, and now it's back to RWD. If Guion is right, then it's the next-gen V chassis and thus RWD. The rumors that have accompanied the Mid-Lux rumors were that both the Impala and Monte were to go to that chassis.

From time to time the name Caprice comes up. Sometimes I'd hear that it will be the new FWD car as Impala goes to rear-wheel, other times it's going to be the rear-wheel import from Australia. I wouldn't be surprised if the Caprice came back as a rear-wheel car again. If it does, would it be a more luxurious trim for the Impala? Probably. As a police car? Depends on how the drivetrain thing goes. If Impala is to be the rear-wheel drive car, I believe that'll be the candidate for the "9C1" package.

But then again, things have really changed and GM might be more interested in reducing the number of similar products within each product line. If that's the case, we're looking at the upper-trim full-size sedan (Impala), the upper-trim mid/full-size coupe (Monte), the midsize bread and butter sedan and basically confirmed wagon (Malibu), and the sports car, Corvette. For Chevrolet to justify ever producing a Camaro again, some things need to happen.

First and foremost, demand. With what we're hearing about Pontiac's Solstice, GTO and WRX-derived car, as well as offerings from Cadillac, they might say there's no justification for a Chevrolet version (other than a limited-production car along the lines of an SSR).

Let's say that we keep the letters flowing to GM and the people talking to the guys at the car shows and dealerships. So what comes next? A new design. There's no room in the future lineup for a car with the Camaro's dimensions. My theory (and hope) is that a smaller hatchback coupe, maybe 140-150" long, gets passed the torch, with a new set of high-feature V6 and of course small block V8 options.

For a mass-production Camaro to work, we're going to need to probably let go of the "V8 only" deal. Most of the production will be V6 cars, probably two of them, a low-output and a high-output engine (maybe 240 and 280 HP respectively). The limited edition cars (Z28, of course!) will be the small-block powered cars, and I suspect that they'll probably be lower displacement Corvette engines (5.7 vs. 6.0).

So what do I think is next for the Camaro's image (And if any of you care after all that blasphemy...)? Not much muscle car anymore, except for comparing this car's formula to the original car's formula (4 seat GT car, Corvette for three friends). The closest comparison would have to be a 300ZX. By then, however, the new Z car and the new Supra will have been out. Maybe this will work out fine.

(You may now flame me senseless.)

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by cmc:
My theory (and hope) is that a smaller hatchback coupe, maybe 140-150" long[/B]</font>

The next Camaro most certainly has to be smaller on the outside, but I highly doubt they can lop off 40 or 50 inches from the current car. 140-150 inches is pocket-rocket territory, which a Camaro isn't.

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Mark

94 Z28, Red, A4, 3:23
Lone Mods--LPE CAI, !Lapeer Dragway.
(Hey, I'm a college boy I can't afford gobs of bolt-ons!)

Best time: 14.658 @ 95.1
with SES light on and Driver off! (First and only time at track)

The F-body will NEVER die.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by guionM:
Also another side note. There is no basis to the "if GTO fails Firebird will come back" senario. This is like saying if Monte Carlo fails, then Camaro will come back. Sounds pretty silly doesn't it?

</font>

That wasn't my idea, it was something I thought Branden posted a couple of weeks ago. I didn't examine the concept for lucidity, I simply reiterated it because it seemed pertinent. My entire post was all speculation anyway...

I like the idea of having a HO V6 option, how about this:

Sport Coupe, 3.8 V6
Rally Sport, Supercharged 3.8 V6
Z28, LS1 (or some V8 variant)
SS, LS6

???

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by R377:
Oshawa is in Ontario, eh http://web.camaross.com/bb/smile.gif?

</font>


OOOHHHH, MY BAD!!! I was really tired when I posted that. Forgive me.

As for the Mid-Lux, I've always heard FWD.

I believe a new Camaro is closer than we think. Its just too signifigant of a car to throw away.


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"THE F_O_G HAS RISEN, AND WITH IT BEGINS THE DAWN OF A NEW ERA."

1967-2002, Thanks for 35 years of prestige and performance...... We look forward to the FUTURE.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Z28Wilson:
The next Camaro most certainly has to be smaller on the outside, but I highly doubt they can lop off 40 or 50 inches from the current car. 140-150 inches is pocket-rocket territory, which a Camaro isn't.

</font>
Yeah, I'd be happy if they could lop off 12" in length.

Maybe 140 is too small, but I think at least 12 inches need to be cut off the length of the current car, but I'd prefer 18-24". Basically it's just got to be a desirable, refined car for reasons other than being #2 to Corvette. It's got to offer different benefits, be better in different areas.

The HO V6 option hopefully would include a "desirable" engine, maybe one with a higher red line than the current one, with a good, flat torque curve (instead of the one that the 3.8L has) and a great sound. I hope I am not disappointed by the upcoming GM "high-feature" 3.6, and hopefully it catches the eye of a potential Camaro engineer...

[This message has been edited by cmc (edited June 20, 2002).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Z284ever:
Hey Guion,
Isn't the Mid-Lux based on the updated FWD W-body...or have things changed?

</font>

I'm guessing only if the W-body is going RWD, though it wouldn't make much sense being that Holden is working on a low cost RWD platform as well seeming based on a hybrid of Sigma & V bodies.

Seems the W body (or at least it's designation) may be phased out towards the end of the decade.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by FUTURE_OF_GM:
Okay, I have it from my most accurate source that GM is studying the possiblility of producing the GTO, the Holden Ute (As an El Camino) and another Chevrolet CAR at the Linden New Jersey plant beginning in 2006. This would both help the strained Elizabeth City plant in Austrailia, and appease the UAW at the same time.

Think about it, 2006ish is supposed to be the debut of the new affordable RWD platform, and all of these vehicles would be RWD and 2 door. Not to count this would allow the Camaro to go back to more of a 1st gen like configuration.

This is ample time for a Camaro to be approved and designed.... The hard engineering work only takes 12-18 months.

</font>

What does the plant produce now?

guionM,
Linden,NJ produces S-10s and Sonomas. But so does Shreavesport,LA. And with the expansion of the Shreavesport plant for the 2004 Colorado, all s-series pickup production is scheduled for the renovated and expanded Shreavesport plant. But that doesn't take into account the rumor that GMC may be getting a version of the Colorado. Dealers are begging for it. It remains to be seen if the Shreavesport plant can sustain BOTH the Colorado AND a GMC variant. If it can't, then it would make sense to me that they would continue to use the Linden plant for extra capacity.
But of course this is just me speculating. Only the part about the Colorado being produced in Shreavesport and the dealers begging for a GMC variant are known to be true.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by FUTURE_OF_GM:
and appease the UAW at the same time.

</font>

WTF does the UAW have to say now? Seems to me they are more of a problem than a solution whenever I see any of the Big Three try to compete against imports. Getting paid $20+/hr to bolt-on wheels all day doesn't seem like grounds to complain about anything and with all the quality issues domestic cars have, you'd think they could bolt parts on properly. No friggin wonder the Big Three are moving their plants abroad and the new import plants coming here have no UAW influence.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by ponchoV8:
WTF does the UAW have to say now? Seems to me they are more of a problem than a solution whenever I see any of the Big Three try to compete against imports. Getting paid $20+/hr to bolt-on wheels all day doesn't seem like grounds to complain about anything and with all the quality issues domestic cars have, you'd think they could bolt parts on properly. No friggin wonder the Big Three are moving their plants abroad and the new import plants coming here have no UAW influence.</font>

I'm glad I'm not the only one who's noticed this.

Seems there is a reason why overseas automakers who open plants here do so away from areas where the UAW has a strong hold.

It's also worth noting that when given the vote to unionize, the workers in these plants seem to be generally against unionizing, but you can't demonize all UAW. Saturn, though put together by the UAW, seems to be well assembled cars and to the best of my knowledge have had few assembly related problems (it's just my impression, not iron clad fact).

I think it's more the relationship between the company and worker representatives that determines quality.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by ponchoV8:
WTF does the UAW have to say now? Seems to me they are more of a problem than a solution whenever I see any of the Big Three try to compete against imports. Getting paid $20+/hr to bolt-on wheels all day doesn't seem like grounds to complain about anything and with all the quality issues domestic cars have, you'd think they could bolt parts on properly. No friggin wonder the Big Three are moving their plants abroad and the new import plants coming here have no UAW influence.</font>

Amen brother!

I do not agree one bit with a union that is powerful enough to make GMs decisions for them. UAW is the exact reason that the Holden/Buick program got killed a few years ago. And if it comes to GM surviving, or the union having their way..... I say move all the friggin' plants to Mexico.



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"THE F_O_G HAS RISEN, AND WITH IT BEGINS THE DAWN OF A NEW ERA."

1967-2002, Thanks for 35 years of prestige and performance...... We look forward to the FUTURE.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by FUTURE_OF_GM:
And if it comes to GM surviving, or the union having their way..... I say move all the friggin' plants to Mexico.
</font>

First of all, GM will always "survive" UAW or not. My father was not in the automotive business but his union was very important to him, to get the best contract he could get. This is America and American jobs are as important as ever. We might not like everything the UAW tries to do as car enthusiasts but if you were one of them you couldn't sit here and say you wouldn't demand the same thing, especially looking at what GM still pulls in each year....

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Mark

94 Z28, Red, A4, 3:23
Lone Mods--LPE CAI, !Lapeer Dragway.
(Hey, I'm a college boy I can't afford gobs of bolt-ons!)

Best time: 14.658 @ 95.1
with SES light on and Driver off! (First and only time at track)

The F-body will NEVER die.

I am part of a Union. I know exactly how important they can be.

BUT when the union is SOOO powerful and political that it controls the company that justifys its very existence, something is wrong.

KUDOS to the imports for NEVER letting the UAW people onto their property. they're smart, by learning from the big 2s mistake of doing so.

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"THE F_O_G HAS RISEN, AND WITH IT BEGINS THE DAWN OF A NEW ERA."

1967-2002, Thanks for 35 years of prestige and performance...... We look forward to the FUTURE.