Crash test standards are always getting higher, and auto companies are always trying to add on new safety features to protect passengers, either because they want to or because by law, HAVE to.

One thing that having a lot of safety equipment does, however, is add weight. And by today's standards, its a LOT of weight. A few years back, 3500lbs was considered a heavy car. Now? Its pretty light, because everything is 4000lbs now. 400hp is now the new 300hp in terms of power, because to get the same performance with that heavy car, the engine needs to be more powerful of course.

Then there is the issue with fuel economy. With heavier cars, and more powerful engines to push them around, good mileage becomes harder to achieve. You can attribute this to a number of things, but simple engineering would say that more weight = enemy, and a lot of this weight seems to be coming from increased safety equipment.

So my question is: does anyone think the "green" movement will hit auto safety? This would be a huge thing: Get rid of some safety features to lighten the car to achieve better mileage to save the earth, or put more features in to save baby huey? A very touchy subject.

 

The automakers know that weight is a problem, but the average person has no idea what goes into making a car. They want a car that will protect them from a nuclear explosion, and they want it to get 50 MPG.

I don't think the greenies will compromise - they'll want cars that are uber-safe, yet paradoxically get good gas mileage. With gas-powered internal combustion engines, I don't really think it's possible to meet those expectations.

 

No.

The enviro-nuts are against oil and since weight and crash standards are not "related" to oil, then they will not care. They are not interested in solving problems, they are just interested in looking for something to villify and blame.

 

Manufacturers could already make a lighter and "less safe" vehicle - they just choose not to.

Something like 85% of all vehicles sold in the US have obtained a 4- or 5-star crash test rating. That's potentially extra weight and extra bulk as compared to a lower-rated vehicle, but the automakers voluntarily achieve the highest rating possible because they apparently feel that it has marketing advantages.

I certainly wouldn't expect any manufacturer to deliberately shoot for a lower (but still passable) in an effort to reduce weight - although I'd love to see the marketing campaign for that

I also would not expect customers to make any sort of a push for a reduction of crash-test standards.

 

The so called "Green Movement" has nothing to do with car safety. It has to do with the enviroment. Their goal is to expand the use of public transportation, increase fuel economy in automobiles and expand the use of alternate fuels and sources of energy, and use enviromental friendly items in everyday life as well as recycle. If anything, their goals would force lighter cars, not heavier ones.

There haven't been no substantial new car safety standards in some time. The only real new car safety standard in the past 18-20 years has been the rear crash standard form 2005 and the side impact standard of not too long ago. In both instances, weight gain was nil. One required moving fuel tanks out of the rear end of cars to under the back seats, and the other one required slightly bigger side door beams (which anyone who has seen them knows they aren't exactly heavy).

The only substantial new safety standard that will potentially add weight is the new roof standard that's being proposed. If I'm not mistaken, the new Impala as well as quite a few other cars that came out over the past couple of years already meet that standard, so even that issue doesn't seem of much significance from a weight standpoint.

What DOES add weight to an automobile is you and I

We demand independent rear suspension in rear wheel drive cars. That adds significant of weight over a live axle. We demand a chassis that is capable of handling 400 pounds of torque without twisting itself in half. That adds significant weight. We demand a car that's as solid as a block of granite and is as quiet as a small town library. That adds weight. Thicker glass. More insulation. Bigger cooling systems. A drivetrain that can handle massive amounts of horsepower and still carry a 100,000 mile warranty despite abuse? More weight. Power seats motors, power window motors, heated everything? there's more weight. Bigger rims, oversized tires, massive brake rotors and calipers? More weight. Adding antilock systems, power moonroofs, & sat-nav isn't weight free.

That 4000 pound car you mention is either going to be a large car or it will be a high horsepower car. Cut the maximum horsepower it can handle and go back to a live axle will cut a huge amount of weight. An engine making 300 horsepower isn't going to need to be as strong as an engine making 300, so it will be lighter. The transmission won't need to be as beefy, so there some more weight. The suspension won't need to support as much weight, so there's a few more pounds. Brakes won't need to be as big as manhole covers and the calipers won't need to rival cable boxes in size and skillets in weight. a few more pounds.

A 2007 Ford Crown Victoria weighs 4100 pounds. A 1995 Ford Crown Victoria weighs 4020. The new one passes all modern safety standards. The current V6 Impala weighs 3465 pounds. A same chassis '99 Lumina weighs 3330.

Yet, every RWD car that has a structure capable of well in excess of 500 horsepower or is large in size and has IRS all weigh the same as a Crown Victoria although they are physically smaller. A RWD BMW 3 series that is no bigger in physical size than a Chevy Cobalt weighs as much as the full size Chevy Impala. The Chrysler 300 with the Hemi weighs as much as a Crown Vic.

The Pontiac Solstice weighs just a hair under 2900 pounds. But GM managed that by keeping as much frills off of the car as humanly possible. Add back everything the Corvette has including the V8 and related performance goodies, and the Solstice will weigh as just about as much as a Corvette.


If you want weight off of cars, the first thing you need to ask is: "What am I willing to give up?", not what some "Green Movement" will do to vehicle weights. Prius, Yaris, & Smarts aren't heavy (or unusually safe) cars.

 

Its also worth noting that cars are bigger because people are bigger (fatter). Plus the population is older because of the baby boom. Cars that used to be marketed towards 20 and 30-somethings are now targeting seniors. The Honda Accord, which used to be a small sporty sedan, is now pushing into Buick territory.

If they chopped a foot off of every car to scale them back to the mid-1990s size, there would be a lot of weight savings at only minimal cost to safety.

There's a bit of a Geo Metro revival going on, but when those cars were sold they were often knocked for their poor safety ratings. It would be kind of interesting to see someone introduce a high MPG 2 Star car and see how the market reacts. Who knows, maybe the insurance rates would kill it.

 

You can take a 92 firebird that only weighs 3400lbs and already has decent crash test ratings.
Replace the metal panels with the plastic ones all cars use today and save a 100+lbs pounds. Stick an aluminium LS1 in it and save another 70lbs.
Stick tubular k-member and a-arms in it and save another 30lbs.
Add a 9" back in the rear which adds some weight but makes for an indestructable rear. Put some bigger brakes all the way around.
Add a nav or whatever else you want.
Now I STILL have a 3400lb car that came with power everything, every option, has a **** ton of power. Gets great MPG, has a decent 5 star front crash test rating, and a pretty bullet proof drivetrain.
Gee that was hard to build
It CAN be done, but instead all the manufactors build us these big bloated cars that are just physically bigger everywhere.
The idea you have to give up anything is BS.
Unless by give up you mean give up a 3 foot dash, give up 1 foot of air space in the door, give up a belt line so high you can rest your chin on the door.

 

I think cars are way overdesigned.

 

I also think that adding several hundred pounds to a car makes it more difficult to avoid a crash, but no one wants to look at things that way; most buyers want to be able to smack a concrete wall at 30 MPH and walk away without a scratch.

I'm not so sure that I'd attribute "nil" weight gain to either standard. Some of the side-impact performance was gained in areas other than the door (such as lateral beams under the dash and "crush boxes" along the center of the floorpan). And don't forget that the more stringent frontal standards in '97, as well as the upcoming 2010 change, have certainly forced some changes.

Also note (once again) that very few cars score lower than four stars in the government ratings. That additional performance above and beyond the minimum adds mass (or expense).

And furthermore, don't neglect the influence of "third-party" testing, such as that performed by IIHS.

And finally (maybe?), understand that the move to "world" platforms means that a given structure has to be capable of passing numerous tests, which may mean that additional mass needs to be built in.

 

Well we can start with airbags, why in the world do we need 8 fn airbags that they have in some cars. Most will never be used. I would also give up on some options like a big stereo, heated and cooled and powered everything. I like what they did with the Solslice and made AC optional. My 84 Camaro Z-28 had a radio delete option. Lets bring all that back.

 

I would be interested to see how much lighter cars would be without power locks, any form of navigation(including onstar), power seats, power mirrors, etc.

Say you took a vehicle that had these things and then just removed them all. Let's say you left the AC, went to crank windows, manual adjustable seats and mirrors, still had a radio with a cd player and a female port for portable media. How much weight would that knock off? 100 pounds? 200 pounds? 300 pounds?

 

Power Window Motors are really not all that heavy (you know all of us 3rd/4th gen guys know that one! ). Although, then you do have the wiring which adds up. But from what I recall most cars have wiring regardless if you have power windows or not to just use one harness.

I do see big leather multi-adjustable seats adding quite a bit of weight though.