Crude oil hits new high

Up $5/bbl today to close at $104.52/bbl. New all time high even when adjusted for inflation.

Bah, it's just the free market system at work.


(dives head-first back into the sand)

I predict it will break $120 this year.

Don't be surprised if prices drop right before the election and then spike immediately after just like in 2004.

Can we stop making posts everytime oil hits a new high? Because it's going to happen a lot.

Can we stop making posts everytime oil hits a new high? Because it's going to happen a lot.

Thank you.

Every time the Feds cut intrest rates, it drives down the value of the dollar against other currencies. Since US dollars are the currency OPEC uses, a lower value dollar means more dollars are needed to buy the same oil.

In short, even if the price of oil on a global stage doesn't change one cent, the Feds are driving up the cost of oil (as well as most all imported goods) by inadvertently lowering the value of the dollar in an effort to prop up the economy.

Besides oil prices setting records from now till eternity, and the price of gas hitting $4 per gallon by late spring and $5 per gallon by this time next year, does anyone see a catch 22 developing here?

Every time the Feds cut intrest rates, it drives down the value of the dollar against other currencies. Since US dollars are the currency OPEC uses, a lower value dollar means more dollars are needed to buy the same oil.

In short, even if the price of oil on a global stage doesn't change one cent, the Feds are driving up the cost of oil (as well as most all imported goods) by inadvertently lowering the value of the dollar in an effort to prop up the economy.

Besides oil prices setting records from now till eternity, and the price of gas hitting $4 per gallon by late spring and $5 per gallon by this time next year, does anyone see a catch 22 developing here?

Guy

The first statement doesn't make any sense to me. Oil is sold in $USD. I don't understand why more $USD are needed to buy oil when the USD is devalued because the $USD is the constant we're dealing with here. The only variable in the price per barrel of oil is the exchange (i.e. non-$USD) on the $USD currency.

For example, if a car is sold in $USD, how can that car become more expensive if the dollar is devalued? It doesn't, unless that car is sold overseas (i.e. outside of the US) in which case the car would be cheaper to buy if the USD is comparatively weaker against that foreign currency.

Please tell me I'm wrong, people.

Guy

The first statement doesn't make any sense to me. Oil is sold in $USD. I don't understand why more $USD are needed to buy oil when the USD is devalued because the $USD is the constant we're dealing with here. The only variable in the price per barrel of oil is the exchange (i.e. non-$USD) on the $USD currency.

We are not the only Customers of OPEC oil. With lower exchange rates for the dollar against their own currency, other nations are willing to pay more in dollar terms because in their local currency the cost stays the same.

Guy

The first statement doesn't make any sense to me. Oil is sold in $USD. I don't understand why more $USD are needed to buy oil when the USD is devalued because the $USD is the constant we're dealing with here. The only variable in the price per barrel of oil is the exchange (i.e. non-$USD) on the $USD currency.

For example, if a car is sold in $USD, how can that car become more expensive if the dollar is devalued? It doesn't, unless that car is sold overseas (i.e. outside of the US) in which case the car would be cheaper to buy if the USD is comparatively weaker against that foreign currency.

Please tell me I'm wrong, people.

Pretty much like Z28x explained.

Say the US dollar drops from $1AUS= .75 cents US to $1AUS=$1US. The US dollar has dropped 25%.

With OPEC using the US dollar as currency, if they do not raise the price in US dollars by 25%, then they have just given Australia a 25% cut in the price of oil, unless they raise the price to offset that. Same thing on a global stage as the US currency drops against most all other currencies.

With the US being by far the world's largest oil consumer, they might not raise the price by that full 25%, but they will raise it pretty close to that.

So while the rest of the world with currencies that are stable or increasing in strength against the US dollar, since the US dollar is the currency used in oil purchases, oil prices will remain stable or even slightly drop on the world stage while here in the US (unless wages keep pace with the dollar devaluation.... which it isn't by a long shot) the price of oil to us is going right through the ceiling.

Oil hit $105.97 today before backing off slightly, but it is still up over yesterday. Nicaragua has broken off relations with Columbia and there was a Seminary attacked in Israel. Add to that the Euro set another record high against the dollar. The scary thing is that many think the Fed is getting ready to cut rates by another .75. If that happens the run to $120 is almost assured. I just wonder what would happen with another major Gulf hurricane or any other major excuse to jump on the oil bandwagon.

We are not the only Customers of OPEC oil. With lower exchange rates for the dollar against their own currency, other nations are willing to pay more in dollar terms because in their local currency the cost stays the same.

That would make sense. So the only way to get cheaper fuel would be to change the base currency to something more stable.... e.g. from $USD to Euro.

But that just might upset the US politicians. We don't want the USA getting upset now...

That would make sense. So the only way to get cheaper fuel would be to change the base currency to something more stable.... e.g. from $USD to Euro.

But that just might upset the US politicians. We don't want the USA getting upset now...

There is a move with some OPEC countries to do just that, mainly Iran and Venzeuela, but not exactly for good reasons.

They are selling other OPEC nations on the idea because of the dollar's freefall. However, they also have the stated goal of destablizing the US economy.

How does switching from the $US to the Euro destablize the US economy?

Once OPEC switches from the US dollar to the Euro, the US dollar is no longer in demand to buy the world's largest commodity, oil. The dollar is already in a freefall due to staggering deficits and now the US Federal Reserve Board slicing intrest rates down to firesale percentages. Because it's rapidly depreciating, no one is intrested in buying US dollars anymore (save China, which is buying influence over US policy), because the US dollar is no longer stable or even strong when measured against other currencies, and every policy we've done to date over the past 6-7 years creates a record that we have no intention to change that.

So, with OPEC changing to Euros, there is no reason for any nation to buy or stock US dollars, so US dollars will be dumped in favor of Euros.

Demand for Euros goes up, rocketing up the Euro's value, since it's standard currency for oil purchases.

US dollars, on the other hand, flood the market. With so many dollars suddenly available, the value of the dollar implodes.

The cost of imports (especially oil) here in the US go ballistic due to more dollars needed to equal the currency of wherever we're buying from.

All this goes far beyond a simple case of US politicians getting their feathers ruffled.

If oil hits a new record price daily, how long until the riots break out?

If oil hits a new record price daily, how long until the riots break out?


here? Nope never will happen.

All this goes far beyond a simple case of US politicians getting their feathers ruffled.


Exactly. Although I did make a flippant remark! :D

A lot of people say the reason that the US went to war with Iraq (apart from gaining access to their oil reserves) was due to Iraq choosing to price their oil in Euro in place of the USD (Saddam made a fortune doing so as the Euro was increasing in value). One would consider that this serves as a warning to other ME nations (such as Iran etc...) in case they consider doing likewise.

I think they're looking for a threshold price...we should hold some boycott days when prices jump...if we all could stick together.
It's a shame noone holds many peaceful demonstrations anymore.
It seems we're either heading for a Depression or more War.:(

I think they're looking for a threshold price...we should hold some boycott days when prices jump...if we all could stick together.


One-day boycotts are BS... it's the political equivalent of a crash diet. Fuel prices likely won't come down until there's a sustained drop in demand.

The supply of oil is highest it has been in 14 years and the price still goes up. With the news of higher crude oil futures prices, the gas stations raise their prices the same day, even though the higher priced crude is months away from being the final product in their underground tanks.

If oil hits a new record price daily, how long until the riots break out?

That depends, it the government lets the market set prices you might pay $8 but as least there will be something to buy. If the Gov't tries to cap prices at $3-4 there will be shortages because demand won't drop.

The supply of oil is highest it has been in 14 years and the price still goes up. With the news of higher crude oil futures prices, the gas stations raise their prices the same day, even though the higher priced crude is months away from being the final product in their underground tanks.

Actually the price of gas has been the same for me $3.20-$3.30 for the last 3 months even though the price in the last few weeks has gone from $85-$105. That $20 barrel jump = 48¢ per gallon of oil. So why hasn't gasoline jumped 50¢ in the last few weeks?

I'm sure it will come May when summer driving season starts.

That depends, it the government lets the market set prices you might pay $8 but as least there will be something to buy. If the Gov't tries to cap prices at $3-4 there will be shortages because demand won't drop.


this isn't actually demand driven. there have been demand increases, but nothing like the leap in per barrel prices over the same period.

much of this is being driven by speculators looking for safe places to park money when share markets become volatile - the same rationale as people parking money in gold when the world looks dodgy.

they leap on any perceived crisis or even concern in any production area and throw more money in there, until you have a self-perpetuating surge that has little relationship with underlying demand.

im currently on work in europe, gas is 1.72/liter and that price hasnt changed in 4 years they say. its not the shortage of oil, its the hshortage of the value of the dollar

im currently on work in europe, gas is 1.72/liter and that price hasnt changed in 4 years they say. its not the shortage of oil, its the hshortage of the value of the dollar

You are dead on. The bulk of record prices for oil is a yardstick as to how far the US dollar has fallen. The increase from $20 per barrell in 2001 to $105 today is well over half due to the falling dollar. If the US dollar simply held steady, oil prices would be roughly $40 per barrel today, and gas would still be hovering around $2 per gallon.

Running up deficits and mindless tax cutting and a "starving the beast" mentality is self destructive. Spending isn't going to be cut, and someone is going to have to pay the bill. China is floating us the difference, collecting intrest and gaining influence for favorable policies and our technologies & manufacturing base. That money pit called Iraq, sucking over 9 billion dollars of YOUR money every month. When the value of your currency is falling, the most damaging thing you can do to that currency is make it even cheaper to get by cutting intrest rates.

Somethings going to give very soon.

BTW: I understand Australia has increased their intrest rates?

I found this interesting as well. Keep in mind oil hit another record at $106.54 today:


NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Five months ago many economists said high oil prices wouldn't hurt the economy - now they're choking on their words.

Back in October, when oil prices were near $90 a barrel and the economy was still humming along economists said high oil prices shouldn't cut into economic growth. The economy used oil more efficiently than it did in the 1970s, and spending on gas was just a small percent of people's budget, the experts said.

Fast forward to March and you've got a sputtering economy, and economists saying $105 oil deserves a big part of the blame.

Even the White House is beginning to sound more pessimistic, predicting Friday that the the economy could contract.

"You have a very significant restraint on consumer spending," said Chris Lafakis, an associate economist at Moody's Economy.com, an economic consultancy. "It acts as a tax would."

Lafakis said consumers spend an extra $5 billion each year for each $1 increase in the price of crude.

When economists were predicting that oil wouldn't negatively impact the economy, they based their assertion on a price of about $80 a barrel.

But if oil stays at $100 a barrel for the next 12 months, consumers will have shelled out an extra $100 billion on oil by next year. That's an extra $100 billion not being spent at the mall, mega-mart or multiplex.

"The entire stimulus package could be drained by higher energy costs," Lafakis said, referring to the $120 billion lawmakers will refund to taxpayers in an effort to keep the economy out of recession. "That has the potential to turn a mild recession into something more dark."

Of course, high oil prices are not the only thing weighing on consumer spending, which accounts for about two-thirds of all U.S. economic activity. Declining home values mean people can't access cash through a home equity loan or profit from higher sale prices. In addition, the economy is shedding jobs, and unemployed people tend to spend less money.

"On its own, $100 oil wouldn't pull the economy into recession," said Beth Ann Bovino, a senior economist at Standard and Poor's. "But given the other factors, it's just another shoe to drop."

Both Bovino and Lafakis have similar predictions for the economy - a mild recession lasting the first and second quarters of 2008, then a modest recovery beginning in the second half of this year.

However, if oil goes to $115 or $120 a barrel - certainly not an outlandish thought given that crude prices have nearly doubled over the last 12 months - then those bets may be off.

Bovino said $115 oil, along with worsening conditions in the credit and foreign investment market, could be enough to keep the economy in recession through the first part of 2009.

"It would sure give the pessimistic forecast more credibility," she said.

I know a few independent truckers who are getting ready to go out of business because of fuel prices.

It doesnt matter how much stimulus money is given to consumers when we send a great deal of that money to other countries through consumer spending.

Originally Posted by Eric Bryant :
One-day boycotts are BS... it's the political equivalent of a crash diet. Fuel prices likely won't come down until there's a sustained drop in demand.
It's certainly not affecting the "Supply vs Demand" aspect, but in the inelastic oil market, wouldn't it have an intial "shock" factor on Wall Street, and maybe a physcological effect on price hikes. :shrug:.

The increases lately seem to be responding to some "butterfly effect" and not supply vs demand...

this isn't actually demand driven. there have been demand increases, but nothing like the leap in per barrel prices over the same period.

much of this is being driven by speculators looking for safe places to park money when share markets become volatile - the same rationale as people parking money in gold when the world looks dodgy.

they leap on any perceived crisis or even concern in any production area and throw more money in there, until you have a self-perpetuating surge that has little relationship with underlying demand.

I hope you're right Mickey T.

I hope it's not a case of China, India using it up because the scenario will only get worse... on an almost daily basis.

PS I still believe the US is keeping all the Iraqi oil for itself... for a rainy day. Probably will see a war on Iran if the oil supply situation gets any worse.

Running up deficits and mindless tax cutting.

Heh, if the Feds cut out all the vote buying/social engine... I mean deductions in the current tax code, that would increase revenues by nearly one trillion dollars wihtout resorting to a hefty increase in taxes, not to mention the inherent ineffciency of trying to collect taxes when it consists of about 67,000 pages of code and the folks who administer it are wrong about 40% of the time.

It's certainly not affecting the "Supply vs Demand" aspect, but in the inelastic oil market, wouldn't it have an intial "shock" factor on Wall Street, and maybe a physcological effect on price hikes. :shrug:.


If everyone just takes a day or two off from buying gas, lets the gag gauge dip a bit deeper, and then rushes to the station to top 'er off again at the end of the "boycott", there won't be any effect - psychological or otherwise. It'd take a real, sustained reduction in consumption - a change in habits, in other words - for there to be any real effect.

Originally Posted by Eric Bryant:
If everyone just takes a day or two off from buying gas, lets the gag gauge dip a bit deeper, and then rushes to the station to top 'er off again at the end of the "boycott", there won't be any effect - psychological or otherwise. It'd take a real, sustained reduction in consumption - a change in habits, in other words - for there to be any real effect. I understand what you're saying and agree, for the long term, your way is better.
But I feel too that if enough people just stayed home on a certain day or weekend, w/o toping off every vehicle they own and filling all their cans, it would hurt daily sales, probably in billions, and would get someones attention.

I personally don't buy on high days whenever possible, and only buy enough to get by when not.

I understand what you're saying and agree, for the long term, your way is better.
But I feel too that if enough people just stayed home on a certain day or weekend, w/o toping off every vehicle they own and filling all their cans, it would hurt daily sales, probably in billions, and would get someones attention.

I personally don't buy on high days whenever possible, and only buy enough to get by when not.

Still wont work. I read in a paper a while back.Anything short of a "strike" on gas meaning prolonged weeks of not buying, its really not going to impact the sales or the price. Organizing a "day off from gas" the oil companies would know it and adjust for it. Even a weekend they would adjust for it. They know you need it to get to work. To go to the store.
Basically its a need that we have in our economy that is part of our daily life.

The gas price problem is like everyone in the U.S. saying
"God, were going to hold our breath untill we get cleaner air, till then were not going to breath!"
Well someones going to take a breath and its not going to be long after we were supposed to stop.

Same with gas. Just something thats part of a daily need that is on a cycle that every time we need it we have to buy it reguardless if its on a Sunday or a Monday.

No the best way to fix the problem is get indipendant from OPEC. We have an Oil reserve we have been sittin on in the U.S. in that is as large as Saudi Arabia's oil reserve.

http://www.camaroz28.com/forums/showthread.php?t=587306

If we started just drilling for that and refining home grow oil instead of buying the millions each day from other countries. The price would go down. Not to mention turn this economy around since we would be self dependant on one of the biggest needs this country has.
Imagine OPEC not yanking our crank every time they felt like it on gas prices? Imagine oil being 50 dollars a barrel again? Now imagine that combines wtih E85 and other hybrid systems. Yea I can but will Exxon and Shell let it happen? That is the problem. Take the profit away and they wil not change.

That money pit called Iraq, sucking over 9 billion dollars of YOUR money every month.

Yeah, it's more like 12 billion dollars. :mad:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23551693

Oh well, since the economy here on the home front is doing so great, we've got that kind of chump change to burn. :rolleyes:

I understand what you're saying and agree, for the long term, your way is better.
But I feel too that if enough people just stayed home on a certain day or weekend, w/o toping off every vehicle they own and filling all their cans, it would hurt daily sales, probably in billions, and would get someones attention.

I personally don't buy on high days whenever possible, and only buy enough to get by when not.

Lets say the average person drives 15,000 a year and gets 25mpg, that is 600 gallons a year and 1.64 gallons a day. So if everyone buys no gas on XX day it will have zero impact because your still buying 600 gallons a year. Now if you boycott cars and ride your bike for a day it is a little better, but only stops the sale on 1.64 gallons per participating person.

Now if instead of the silly boycott you bought a used Geo Metro, Prius or Civic or similar hybrid that averaged 45mpg you would only use 333 gallons of gas. Thus stopping the sale of 267 gallons a year versus 1.64 gallons a year for your one day protest.

So if you really want to show your displeasure with big oil buy a car that gets 40mpg+. One Prius has the impact of 168 days of boycott

Still wont work. I read in a paper a while back.Anything short of a "strike" on gas meaning prolonged weeks of not buying, its really not going to impact the sales or the price. Organizing a "day off from gas" the oil companies would know it and adjust for it. Even a weekend they would adjust for it. They know you need it to get to work. To go to the store.

They'd find out what day this was planned for and drop the price of gas a huge amount for just that day.

Personally, my wife and I bought bicycles and we will be using them more when the weather gets nicer instead of my truck or her car. I got one of the most fuel efficient fullsize V8 trucks as I could when I bought mine. I'm looking forward to the hybrid and diesel 1/2 ton trucks hitting the market soon. But it might be more efficient for me to pick up a cheap beater that gets over 30mpg and just keep the truck that I have until I need more trucking ability. We're really not sure what way to go with my wife's car. We looked at the new Malibu yesterday, but I need shoulder room that it seems tight in.

So if you really want to show your displeasure with big oil buy a car that gets 40mpg+. One Prius has the impact of 168 days of boycott

Oh, shut up, you tree-hugging hippie - we're only interested in sticking it to those damn A-rabs if it can be done at little or no inconvenience.

People are willing to do whatever it takes to get cheaper gas, just so long as we don't ask anyone to burn less of it. Admittedly, I'm not any different, as a quick glance at my sig will indicate.

Oil up $2.71 to another new record of $107.90 a barrel and wholesale gasoline is up to $2.71. $4 a gallon gasoline will be very real this summer, and God forbid something like a Gulf hurricane occur.



NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Gasoline will hit a new record high price - perhaps as early as Tuesday - and experts say it will likely continue to soar in tandem with the skyrocketing price of crude.

The national average retail price for gas has already risen 26 cents in the last month, according to the motorist organization AAA. At $3.222 a gallon, it is less than a cent away from the all-time record.

And experts say motorists should prepare to pay nearly $4 a gallon - and in some places even more than that - before the price of gas finally comes down in the late spring as high prices crimp demand.

The price of gasoline usually sees a rise in price this time of year. Several factors contribute to the runup: Low refinery output due to maintenance, a switch from winter to pricier summer blends, and the looming high-demand summer driving season.

Experts say this time around the spike will be more pronounced, mostly due to the surging price of oil and, to a lesser extent, refiner's attempts to grow their profit margins.

"It's all crude," said Tom Kloza, chief oil analyst at Oil Price Information Service. "The crude market is morbidly obese."

Oil prices - which account for 80 percent of the price of a gallon of gas - have jumped 20 percent in just over a month as investors pour money into commodities of all types.

Commodities like oil are seen as a hedge against inflation and the falling dollar - which has been trading at record lows - triggered by economic woes and interest rate cuts from the Federal Reserve.

Oil, already trading near $90 a barrel on the back of strong global demand, took off in February as the economy worsened and the Federal Reserve cut interest rates with crude now spiking to record highs on a near-daily basis - settling at a record $107.90 on Monday.


But as oil prices rose gasoline prices stayed stagnant and profit margins enjoyed by refiners shrank. Now those profit margins have become so small refiners have little incentive to make gasoline.

"The refiners are saying, 'Hey we're not making any money,'" said Tim Statts, vice president of risk management for Summit Energy, a firm that buys energy for big users. "The gasoline price almost has to come up to continue bringing the product to market."[/b]

According to John Kilduff, an energy analyst at the trading firm MF Global in New York, refiners are making about $6 off of every barrel of oil they turn into gasoline. That's down from over $38 a barrel last spring.

Refiners are operating at just 85 percent capacity, down from a normal rate of around 90 percent, according to figures from the Energy Information Administration.

Killduff said the low operating rate is partly due to refiners being shut down for maintenance but also due to the small profits they're getting on gasoline.

"There's no market incentive to rush your unit back into production," he said. "[Gas prices] can't go any lower in relation to crude."

So how high will gas prices go?

While several areas will see prices over $4 a gallon, Kloza said he expects the nationwide average to peak somewhere between $3.50 and $3.75. Kilduff is calling for a high of $3.50, and Statts thinks we'll see the $3.30s.

All three analysts think prices will peak early, in April or May, then decline as the economy worsens and demand for gas - already flat or falling - continues to deteriorate.

"[The falloff in demand] that occurs around $3.25 a gallon takes a lot of the mojo out of gasoline," said Kloza. "These prices are real speed bumps for the economy."

By July 4th, when many Americans pack up the sedan and head for the mountains or beach, prices could be back around $3. If anyone can still afford a vacation.

Oil up $2.71 to another new record of $107.90 a barrel and wholesale gasoline is up to $2.71. $4 a gallon gasoline will be very real this summer, and God forbid something like a Gulf hurricane occur.

$108/42 = $2.57/gal. of crude. I know it cost more than 14¢ to refine the crude into gasoline, last year at this time refining cost were 70-80¢ per gallon, so does that mean we can expect the wholesale cost of gasoline to jump another 60¢.

$108/42 = $2.57/gal. of crude. I know it cost more than 14¢ to refine the crude into gasoline, last year at this time refining cost were 70-80¢ per gallon, so does that mean we can expect the wholesale cost of gasoline to jump another 60¢.

Blame the relatively weak demand for gasoline in the US at this time for the low refining margins (refineries don't set their prices - the market does, and the market isn't going to put extra money into the refineries' pockets unless demand dictates).

Oh, shut up, you tree-hugging hippie - we're only interested in sticking it to those damn A-rabs if it can be done at little or no inconvenience.

People are willing to do whatever it takes to get cheaper gas, just so long as we don't ask anyone to burn less of it. Admittedly, I'm not any different, as a quick glance at my sig will indicate.

:yes:

$109.20 this morning so far. Gasoline has now passed the record average for last May.

Yeah, it's more like 12 billion dollars. :mad:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23551693

Oh well, since the economy here on the home front is doing so great, we've got that kind of chump change to burn. :rolleyes:

Yea well gold is through the roof too.

I guess golden oil would save Iraq?? lol

$109.72 is what it went up to today before backing off slightly.

Here in Yreka gas has risen 48 cents in 4 weeks and I saw one station where diesel is $4.059/gal.

from CNN
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Oil prices rebounded to another record high Wednesday afternoon after initially plummeting when a government report said supplies of crude and gasoline had risen much more than expected.
In afternoon trading, U.S. light crude for April delivery surged to a high of $110.20 before closing at $109.92. Oil had traded as low as at $107.09 following the report's release on Wednesday morning.

In its weekly inventory report, the U.S. Energy Information Administration, a government agency that measures oil and gas supplies, said crude stocks rose by 6.2 million barrels last week. Analysts were looking for a rise of 1.6 million barrels, according to a Dow Jones poll.

Gasoline supplies rose by 1.7 million barrels, significantly more than the 300,000 barrel rise that analysts had forecast. The government said gasoline stockpiles are well above average for this time of year.

"The big number is the build in gasoline," said Stephen Schork, publisher of the industry newsletter the Schork Report. "We usually see a 2 million barrel draw at this time, not a surplus."

Since September, gasoline stockpiles have increased from a 16 million barrel deficit to a 22 million barrel surplus, which Schork believes is due primarily to the continuing low demand for gasoline.

$110.20 today :eek:

The price isn't going to be dropping anytime soon....
China's oil reserve build-up adds to global demand, It plans a stockpile equivalent to 30 days' worth of imports by 2010 (http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/chinas-oil-reserve-build-up-adds/story.aspx?guid=%7BBA07A1FB%2D2A01%2D484B%2D852C%2 D948CD491D7F7%7D)
http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/chinas-oil-reserve-build-up-adds/story.aspx?guid=%7BBA07A1FB%2D2A01%2D484B%2D852C%2 D948CD491D7F7%7D

What's with all this surplus? People must actually be cutting back...


Or more likely, general economic fears are causing them to unintentionally use less gas, one trip to Costco instead of four trips to Kroger.

What's with all this surplus? People must actually be cutting back...


Or more likely, general economic fears are causing them to unintentionally use less gas, one trip to Costco instead of four trips to Kroger.

People are cutting back for whatever reason, but the speculators looking for a fast buck don't care. Something is eventually going to give.

Not a new high, but oil closed at $110.21/bbl Friday down $.12. It sure jumped quick from $100 to $110.

Close to $112 in Asian trading. I am sure that it will rise today on the Sunday rate cut and then again Tuesday after the Fed meets.

The next few years are going to look a lot like the late 70's :(

Oil fell $4.53 and wholesale gasoline fell 19 cents as investors might finally be getting spooked by things like the collapse of Bear Stearns.

How does that relate to oil? Shouldn't oil remain relatively safe compared to other stocks?

How does that relate to oil? Shouldn't oil remain relatively safe compared to other stocks?

No because until now, against the data investors in oil have been using it as a hedge against the falling dollar. They also believed that we may quickly pull out of a recesion. Now with Bear Stearns collapsing it shows a very big sign that the economy is in serious trouble.
A troubled economy tends to use far less enery than a booming one.
Not to mention oil and gas stockpiles are very high right now.

No because until now, against the data investors in oil have been using it as a hedge against the falling dollar. They also believed that we may quickly pull out of a recesion. Now with Bear Stearns collapsing it shows a very big sign that the economy is in serious trouble.
A troubled economy tends to use far less enery than a booming one.
Not to mention oil and gas stockpiles are very high right now.

Wonder why NOW..they are figuring this out.. When the paycheck to paycheck everyday man has been feeling it for the last 2 years the steady decline and rising problems that have been hitting our economy.

I guess they feel it when they get socked with a million dollar hit. Then they notice. Funny that these are the companies that we rely on to keep our stocks and futures in a competative running with the world. Yet they are falling now. Makes you wonder why they let it go so far? I know why..selfish greed from a corperate to individual level.

I tell you if the things were done to get this country back on track we would be in the black in no time. But we keep letting big business run our lives. That is the recipie for this mess.
The sad thing is they have the money to burn if things get out of hand..does that paycheck to paycheck guy have the same luxury? Nope..:mad:

Wonder why NOW..they are figuring this out.. When the paycheck to paycheck everyday man has been feeling it for the last 2 years the steady decline and rising problems that have been hitting our economy.

I guess they feel it when they get socked with a million dollar hit. Then they notice. Funny that these are the companies that we rely on to keep our stocks and futures in a competative running with the world. Yet they are falling now. Makes you wonder why they let it go so far? I know why..selfish greed from a corperate to individual level.

I tell you if the things were done to get this country back on track we would be in the black in no time. But we keep letting big business run our lives. That is the recipie for this mess.
The sad thing is they have the money to burn if things get out of hand..does that paycheck to paycheck guy have the same luxury? Nope..:mad:

Don't forget big government, the fed is just as screwed up with out of control spending as they try and support a bullets and butter policy to the regressive tax system to the free trade fantasy (of course you can make the case that the government is nothing more than the lackey of big business).

It is telling that the kind of bailout used to guarantee JP Morgan no loss on the deal has not been done since the great depression. When Greenspan comes out in an election year and says that the economy is the worst since the end of WWII, things are getting bad.

It is telling that the kind of bailout used to guarantee JP Morgan no loss on the deal has not been done since the great depression. When Greenspan comes out in an election year and says that the economy is the worst since the end of WWII, things are getting bad.

It is also telling that the government that reluctantly offered any assistance to airlines after 9/11 , and told carmakers to "make a better product" as opposed to any kind of "bailout", is actually the same government that just OK'ed the special buyout mentioned above in record time over a weekend, huh?

Anyone read the President's radio address "article" in the papers over the wekend?
http://www.journalnow.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=WSJ/MGArticle/WSJ_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1173354981422
"President Bush said yesterday that the government must guard against going too far in trying to fix the troubled economy, cautioning that “one of the worst things you can do is overcorrect.”

What friggin planet does this guy teleport here from for an hour every day to make appearances and speeches?!?! :shrug:

The local news Friday announced 3 plant closings in our area and a total job loss of about 2000, then they announced a new company that is relocating from New Jersey and bringing about 140 new jobs to our area with wages in he $20-$35k range.
Whoot! Yippee! Sounds like we are setting it on fire down here in Nawth Cackalakee. :(
I'm telling you guys... it's bad.

It is telling that the kind of bailout used to guarantee JP Morgan no loss on the deal has not been done since the great depression. When Greenspan comes out in an election year and says that the economy is the worst since the end of WWII, things are getting bad.

I'm readying Greenspans new book write now. He talks about how sometimes he give cryptic or vague statement as to not shake the markets too much one way or another. I think he used WWII instead of the Great Depression for the same reason. He wanted to stress how bad it is going to get without causing a panic.


His book has given me new respect for Bill Clinton too. Greenspan is a life long republican that only has voted republican, but yet says that Clinton was our smartest and one of our best presidents. He says Clintons budget surplus would have whipped out the national debt by 2007 and he actually worried that the Treasury would have too much money someday :lol: He also says the Bush tax cuts were a mistake.

In such a short period of time Bush has taken the surpluses that would have ended the debt in his second term and turned it into the largest deficits ever and has doubled the national debt and is pushing our currency to the brink of collapse.

Oil is up a few bucks in early trading, many are saying that the rate cut will boost oil prices into the $114-$116 range in the next month. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

In such a short period of time Bush has taken the surpluses that would have ended the debt in his second term and turned it into the largest deficits ever and has doubled the national debt and is pushing our currency to the brink of collapse.

Its not just Bush, his asshat buddies the republicans are to blame too, the "fiscally responsible" party got into the majority and went crazy as well. :mad:

Oil went back up $3.74 today to close near $110 and wholesale gasoline went back up 16 cents. Most are expecting $114-$116 oil in the next week or two.

Its not just Bush, his asshat buddies the republicans are to blame too, the "fiscally responsible" party got into the majority and went crazy as well. :mad:

Go vote for Obama then. All will be well.

Go vote for Obama then. All will be well.

We lose in the next one no matter what.

We lose in the next one no matter what.

How do you figure?

Out of the 4 people still in the race, Obama, Clinton, Paul, and McCain, John McCain is the only one running on the Bush plan of economic irresponsibility. Any of the other 3 will be better for the economy than what we have now.

On CNN this morning they had Obama's top economic advisior on, who turned out to be a professor of law at Georgetown. A professor of law?? God forbid he should hire an actual economist. Obama is a lawyer, his wife is a lawyer, and if his advisors on economics of all things are lawyers too, then it's a decent bet to say a Obama administration will be lawyers and nothing but lawyers. If this isn't a case of going from bad to worse I don't know what is. A lawyer would not get my vote for city dogcatcher much less president.

On CNN this morning they had Obama's top economic advisior on, who turned out to be a professor of law at Georgetown. A professor of law?? God forbid he should hire an actual economist. Obama is a lawyer, his wife is a lawyer, and if his advisors on economics of all things are lawyers too, then it's a decent bet to say a Obama administration will be lawyers and nothing but lawyers. If this isn't a case of going from bad to worse I don't know what is. A lawyer would not get my vote for city dogcatcher much less president.

You might want to double check that

http://www.barackobama.com/2007/09/06/_senior_obama_advisers_travel.php

Austan Goolsbee

Goolsbee is the Senior Economic Advisor to the Obama campaign. He is a professor of economics at the University of Chicago and a Fulbright Scholar. The Financial Times named him one of the six Gurus of the Future/Best Under 40 in 2005, and the World Economic Forum in Switzerland chose him one as one of the 2005 Young Global Leaders. He received his Master's Degree in Economics from Yale in 1991 and his Ph.D. in the same subject in 1995 from Massachusetts Institute of Technology.

You might want to double check that

http://www.barackobama.com/2007/09/06/_senior_obama_advisers_travel.php

Hahaha ownage. My guess is he found out his economic advisor is a lawyer from someone at Church or on a neo-con news site/forum. The bad information about Obama out there is unbelievable. I have had multiple people tell me Obama is the antichrist becuase he is middle eastern... :confused: Well, not middle eastern for starters - but the list of bad info just goes on.

You might want to double check that

http://www.barackobama.com/2007/09/06/_senior_obama_advisers_travel.php

Booyaa!...Way to put the smackdown on dis-information. That's the trouble with poitics. There's so much garbage being floated around as facts it's hard to know what to believe. You have these clowns pulling these stories out of their ass because they know that most people won't have the time, & even fewer the desire, to fact check all of these stories! So I do appreciate it when someone does take the time & trouble to put the truth out there. Kudos to you!

This is what the libs want to do to pay for Gores manmade global warming lie: :mad:




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Urgent Action Alert: Higher energy taxes ahead!

How exactly do higher taxes help lower energy costs? (Hint: They don't.)

It's one question the Democrat leadership in Congress can't answer, no matter how long they talk.

The truth is, the tax and spend crowd is just looking for ways to increase taxes on American consumers by targeting domestic energy production. At a time when already high energy costs are weighing heavy on this country's economy, and when signs are indicating that even more trouble may be ahead, why would Congress seek to pass legislation that will raise prices and increase financial hardships by strangling America's energy supply? Congress should be looking to cut taxes, not increase them. Higher energy prices won't avert or minimize a recession. They'll do just the opposite.

Take Action now to stop higher energy costs!

Tax increases like those passed through the House (including bills that violated the Taxpayer Protection Pledge) would stifle investment, and the domestic energy it produces. One chief target of the left is the destruction of Section 199 of the tax code, which would chase away capital now being invested here at home by America's oil and natural gas producers. The right way to promote the use of alternative energy is not limiting access to new domestic energy sources of oil and natural gas, or imposing new taxes on the U.S. oil and gas industry. Such an approach will not help supply stable and affordable energy to satisfy the demands of American families, especially at a time when Americans are already struggling in today's economic slowdown.

What it will do is help push the economy over the precipice into deep recession by driving up the costs of driving our cars, heating our homes and creating jobs.

In addition, raising taxes on domestic energy makes U.S. oil and natural gas exploration projects less competitive globally, discouraging new U.S. production and increasing our reliance on imported oil. As if that weren't damaging enough, almost all large oil and gas companies are publicly-traded entities, whose shares are owned by millions of investors through their 401(k) plans, IRAs and pension funds. Taxing away the retirement earnings of these millions of Americans won't help anyone except the taxman.

Take Action Now: Tell your member of Congress to oppose energy tax hikes!


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Americans for Tax Reform
1920 L Street NW
Suite 200
Washington, DC 20036


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^ Is that from some chain e-mail or something?

^ Is that from some chain e-mail or something?

Americans for tax reform: www.atr.org