Matching Numbers

Hey All,

I have really got a 'hankerin' to get an old Camaro. Let me rephrase, my wife has really been amenable to me getting an old Camaro. We have some mid-models and are really hoping to get a new one when they come out. But both of use are a few years old, have never owned an old, original hot rod, and are in the position to be able to buy something.

I feel that I can evaluate the 'modified' cars. When it comes to motor and bodywork, I feel like I know what is going on. But we'd love to have an original. When someone says 'matching numbers' on an ad, how can I verify that it is the real deal?

Thanks, Z~

Hi,

I found a car that looks very nice, and the advertisement says:
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HAS THE CORRECT DATED 396/375 HP MQ CODED MOTOR! THE BLOCK NUMBER IS 3935440. THE NUMBER ON THE HEADS ARE 3919840. THE NUMBER ON THE INTAKE IS 3885069. THIS CAR HAS A SUPER T-10 4 SPEED TRANSMISSION WITH HURST SHIFTER IN IT, IT WAS JUST FRESHLY REBUILT! THE NUMBERS ON THE TRIM TAG ARE:

10 D

ST 68-12437 NOR 36222 BODY

TR 724 CC PAINT
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I'm pretty green as to what these numbers mean, but it is advertised as 'correct' numbers. Can anyone guide me as to where I should find out what I'm looking at?

Thanks, Z~

Check this site out:

http://www.camaros.org/numbers.shtml

If it is an actual numbers matching 396, that thing is rare. Those numbers the guy gave you are just casting numbers, and it would be impossible to tell from the numbers if they came with that car.

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HAS THE CORRECT DATED 396/375 HP MQ CODED MOTOR! THE BLOCK NUMBER IS 3935440. THE NUMBER ON THE HEADS ARE 3919840. THE NUMBER ON THE INTAKE IS 3885069.

"Matching numbers" means different things to different people. To me, that write-up says that the motor has been replaced, but is date-coded enough to be considered correct for the car.

He doesn't say the "correct original motor for the car," he says it's a "correct dated one." Following that logic, the 289 in my '65 Mustang convertible, even though I'm 100% positive it wasn't the original engine put in the car, could still be considered correct because it has a similar date code to the car's.

Does that make any sense? I may be completely wrong, but to me, the above ad seems carefully worded to sound like the car is numbers-matching, when in fact, it isn't.

Date coded means not original, but correct for that year model.

All,

Thank you for the replies. I wanted to mention that the seller is not representing the car as having the original engine, he is saying that it is an engine from an 'equivalent' car from that year. I'm wondering if a 1968 396 is worth anything, in this day of crate engines galore...

Green96Z, is what you are saying that I could never verify that the engine is original to a particular car by the block number??

Thanks Again, Z~

...

Green96Z, is what you are saying that I could never verify that the engine is original to a particular car by the block number??

Thanks Again, Z~

Right. Older cars do not have any number ties from the chassis to the engine or transmission as newer cars do. You can only verify that they ar the correct "vintage".

A 1968 396 might be worth something to someone that was looking for that particular vintage to put in a resoration. ( I have a 1968 396, originally 350 horse engine in my 1957 Chevy :) It's still stock bore. )

I thought the blocks had a partial VIN stamped on a machined pad on the block. On the V8's, it was on the passenger side, right in front of the hole for #2. A buddy of mine with a totally stock, original, matching numbers 66 Corvette had his block decked, and they took the number off, even though he told them not to do it.

When the engine was assembled, it has the engine spec codes stamped on the block. For example (from the Camaro White Book) - a 1968 engine is stamped with the identification number "T0911MY". That means the engine was built 9/11 at Tonawanda NY, and "MY" is the suffix for a 68 Camaro with a 396. At the plant where the engine was installed in a specific chassis, "another set of numbers containing the VIN was usually stamped into or affixed near the identification number to key the engine to the specific body and chassis."

But its not unheard of for the blocks to be "restamped" with a false partial VIN, false assembly date or false spec code. Its possible to detect false markings, but I suspect its not a cheap process.

I thought the blocks had a partial VIN stamped on a machined pad on the block. On the V8's, it was on the passenger side, right in front of the hole for #2. A buddy of mine with a totally stock, original, matching numbers 66 Corvette had his block decked, and they took the number off, even though he told them not to do it.

I've heard the same, that the blocks have a partial VIN or engine code on them. It's just not as easy to find or verify as newer cars are.

I know they have engine "codes" - I don't recall seeing any VIN info.