My 4L60E---->th350 experience..

Phenomenal to say the least. What an improvement! I was on my second 4L that decided to stop shifting at WOT from 2nd-3rd. I wasn't going to take the chance on a third one, so I went old school. I have a full-race prep th350, manual valve body (forward pattern), with a 4000rpm custom stall with anti-baloon plate. My transmission shop installed a kit that bolts the 4L tailshaft up to the th350 case, which allows the use of the stock crossmember, same speedo setup and the torque arm bolts right up. They had to purchase a new dipstick tube (lokar) and they used the stock shifter.

Hows it drive?--For those who think the stall is too much for the street, I am telling you it is fine. The car will move if you just touch the gas. Most people assume that every time you accelerate the car you have to mash the gas up to 4G, simply not true! The manual valve body makes it a lot of fun too. You leave the line in first, then click, click, and you cruise in third. Just downshift when you come to the next light. VERY STREETABLE!!! The only drawback is a lack of 4th gear!

Conclusion--I saved a TON of money doing it this way, and now I have a tranny rated at 700HP with a converter rated at 800HP. Most likely the LAST trans I will ever put in the car period. Oh, I will be at the track later today, but my butt-o-meter tells me I probably dropped a good half sec off my E.T. with no problem, the car is a monster out of the hole!

Let us know the real numbers when you hit the track again. I doubt you dropped a half second but that all depends on what stall you had in the 4L60. As far as all the money you "saved"......imagine how much money you'll be spending now on fuel w/o O.D. It will quickly diminish your momentary savings of probably 1K at the most. The 4L60 is not a cheap transmission to build CORRECTLY. There are many issues to be addressed, and quite honestly, people just dont do it. You can easily have over $500 in parts alone and thats not list price. The stock unit is only good for what it was put behind. Unless its mainly a track car, with VERY limited street use, you're going backwards to put a 350/400 in there. If you really want to put some power and still have O.D. then go to a 4L80 swap. But now you're talking some more $$ that most people dont WANT to spend. You all know the saying, we all want to be cheap as possible, but if you wanna play you gotta pay.

60 ft. will suffer with a th350, because the 4L60E has a steeper first gear...And you lose O/D. You would've been better off to get someone who knows what they're doing to build the 4L60E.

Frank
CPT

You guys both have valid points there. For me personally, my Z28 is my "play" car. Gas mileage? Anyone who builds a street/strip car and complains about gas mileage is in the wrong sport/hobby IMO. If you can't afford the extra 20-30 bucks a week, go mow some lawns on sunday. Obviously if your f-bod is your only car then thruway cruising would be a priority, it isn't for me. The points I was trying to make is 1.It is much more inexpensive to build a bulletproof th350, the recipes have been out there for years. 2.The swap isn't too difficult. 3. High-stalls aren't unstreetable. and 4. Manual valve bodies aren't a chore on the street. As far as my track numbers go, my 4L's had stock stalls, so I'm sure the improvement I'm feeling is mostly from the stall itself. Just out of curiousity, what could one expect to pay for a 4L60E capable of handling 700HP or a 4L80 for that matter? How much do 4000rpm stalls for them go for?

Stalls are in the $600 to 800$ range and some of those built 4L's are over 2g's I will be putting a 350/400 in my track car.

You guys both have valid points there. For me personally, my Z28 is my "play" car. Gas mileage? Anyone who builds a street/strip car and complains about gas mileage is in the wrong sport/hobby IMO. If you can't afford the extra 20-30 bucks a week, go mow some lawns on sunday. Obviously if your f-bod is your only car then thruway cruising would be a priority, it isn't for me. The points I was trying to make is 1.It is much more inexpensive to build a bulletproof th350, the recipes have been out there for years. 2.The swap isn't too difficult. 3. High-stalls aren't unstreetable. and 4. Manual valve bodies aren't a chore on the street. As far as my track numbers go, my 4L's had stock stalls, so I'm sure the improvement I'm feeling is mostly from the stall itself. Just out of curiousity, what could one expect to pay for a 4L60E capable of handling 700HP or a 4L80 for that matter? How much do 4000rpm stalls for them go for?

I'm with you on this. The TH400 with the 4k stall was the best thing I have ever done for the car. It's not a DD and the gas mileage does not bother me when I only put 3 to 5 thousand miles on the car a year.
It just tickles me to pull the dipstick out and see trans fluid the way its supposed to look. :cool: Mine is a RMVB and I can upshift and downshift and do all kinds of nasty things to it that you just can't do with the 60E.
I just hate seeing guys who really would be better off running a TH350/400 (mainly high horsepower guys who spent all thier money on the engine and don't have the cash to rebuild the tranny every 15k or less)

Now don't get me completely wrong, Frank, I think its great that your back up and I can reccomend your services with confidence. And I realize that going with the A3 has put me in the red headed stepchild of the 4th gen bunch but I would do it again in a heartbeat.

You guys both have valid points there. For me personally, my Z28 is my "play" car. Gas mileage? Anyone who builds a street/strip car and complains about gas mileage is in the wrong sport/hobby IMO. If you can't afford the extra 20-30 bucks a week, go mow some lawns on sunday. Obviously if your f-bod is your only car then thruway cruising would be a priority, it isn't for me. The points I was trying to make is 1.It is much more inexpensive to build a bulletproof th350, the recipes have been out there for years. 2.The swap isn't too difficult. 3. High-stalls aren't unstreetable. and 4. Manual valve bodies aren't a chore on the street. As far as my track numbers go, my 4L's had stock stalls, so I'm sure the improvement I'm feeling is mostly from the stall itself. Just out of curiousity, what could one expect to pay for a 4L60E capable of handling 700HP or a 4L80 for that matter? How much do 4000rpm stalls for them go for?
AMEN brother,

i rode in this car, its def streetable and launches nicely

i love it

i may end up going this route

Track time updates. Hard to compare, really. It was a "bad air" day to say the least. 30-40mph winds, 80 degrees, high humidity. The car has a new problem now. It launches hard enough now to push both rear tires hard up into the wheelwell lips. On some of my passes I was smoking the entire way down the track. I was consistently running 2.0-2.05 60 foots before, last night I hit a bunch of 1.82's-1.87's, so 2 tenths improvement right out of the hole, then it felt like I was kinda riding the brakes going down the track (tire rubbing). I'll have to get the correct offset wheels, and hit it up again, but based on the 60's and the bad air, I would guesstimate .35-.45 better than before with the 4L.

Track time updates. Hard to compare, really. It was a "bad air" day to say the least. 30-40mph winds, 80 degrees, high humidity. The car has a new problem now. It launches hard enough now to push both rear tires hard up into the wheelwell lips. On some of my passes I was smoking the entire way down the track. I was consistently running 2.0-2.05 60 foots before, last night I hit a bunch of 1.82's-1.87's, so 2 tenths improvement right out of the hole, then it felt like I was kinda riding the brakes going down the track (tire rubbing). I'll have to get the correct offset wheels, and hit it up again, but based on the 60's and the bad air, I would guesstimate .35-.45 better than before with the 4L.


I was expecting better.....I can cut 1.80's on STREET tires. No suspenion mods or anything. That track needs better prep or something. :) Not trying to dog you just sharing what "my" 4l60E does. I have a friend who SWEARS you'll gain around 30hp with a 350 turbo over a 4l60e and even more with a 400......because they are lighter and have less rotating mass. :shrug: Next time I will be going with a 350 turbo to find out. I doubt I'll see anytime soon though. This transmission by Frank at CPT has been rock solid. (knock on wood).

Um...My stock suspension, stock bottom end, full weight A4 car goes 1.67 60 ft. times on ET Streets.

The TH400 uses more HP than a TH350 or 4L60E. The 350 and 700/4L60E are about equal in how much HP they soak up.

The reality is, many swap to the 350 just because anyone can build one. It takes someone who really knows what they're doing to build a 4L60E. Because of this, the '60E has gotten an undeserved bad reputation.

Personally, I like having better 60 ft. times, and retaining overdrive.

BTW, a TH350 isn't any stronger than a properly built 700/4L60E.

Frank
CPT

Expecting better than my 1.82 60 foot time? I think you are assuming I have a nitrous sniffing beast of a motor. I have bolt-ons, stock exhaust manifolds, and a cam. I would put my car around 300ish at the wheels with a weight of around 3550-3600 with me in it. Nothing out of the ordinary.

I've got almost 3 years and countless 1.55 60's on my 4L60E...A properly built 4L60E will handle alot more than you think and I still get 20 mpg on the highway...It was a few $$$ but it still snaps my neck in every gear...just my .02.. Not trying to be an ass...It didn't even flinch when it went a 10.98on a Mustang dyno 1/4 mile blast this year with a 1.35 60'! (gotta love being strapped to the dyno for traction....)

--Alan

I'm sorry to do this but some things must be understood

as far as transmissions, the th350 has been around for most of the 350's life, it's a great transmission that with a basic rebuild will handle upwards of 400hp, and what really matters is torque capability, but build it right and it'll handle the same, but it'll feel faster as the non lockup converter will act as though you lightened the flywheel, and you'll experience better throttle response over the lockup converter, and also higher stall speeds. The lockup converter has more components and takes more to get it moving.

next order of business the 4l60e depends on its converter locking to keep it running cool enough, th350 Non L/U is made to not have a converter lockup and will have less heat issues (good for when you hotlap at the track), th350 also has been around so long that any transmission shop will rebuild one half bulletproof for $400, and you can get a high stall for $130-200 ish whereas your 4l60e requires a special shop that has experience in them and a much more expensive lockup converter, which because of the extra rotating mass costs a lot to make it stall high, and they will never be able to stall as high as the highest non L/U converter because of the torque aspects so they are simply inadequate in all out race cars.

for gas mileage, your fuel management system in an injected car is going to give you over 20 mpg in a 1.0 final drive gear, anything lower than a 1.0 final generally loads the engine more and requires more fuel, so your mileage improves with the speed of the car, but not so much as you may think... think of it as driving in 3rd in your A4; or 4th in a t56; those are both 1.0s

yea you lose a couple mpg, but deal with it, figure 5,000 miles a year 2 mpg loss out of say 25mpg avg, at 25 you have 200 gallons at 23 you have 217 gallons used each year, so another $50 a year... who cares, by the time you find the $2000 difference add up we'll be flying to work every day, the 1.0 final drive gear was used for most of automotive history from the powerglide to the muncie rock crusher to the th400 to the saginaw 3 band, it's a good drive gear, not much bogging even in a stock application, it puts most engines at or near peak volumetric efficiency, and in the cam powerband.

and if you really want an overdrive they sell bolt on OD for th350s for $1300 and you simply turn it off when racing, and no worries you can't shift into it. and you're not in the $2000 difference area yet, plus you can get an even higher OD, just that high an OD would require something like 5.26s to keep from burning that stall up on the highway.

powerglides and th350s are also used in many a drag car for the light weight, and the ability to make it shift faster and harder than other transmissions. And lastly they have a good spread, unlike many other transmissions they stay in each gear rather equally 2.52, 1.52 and 1.0, are simply good ratios, take a 700r4 for example, your 60 ft kicks butt, but your 8th sucks since it didnt shift out of second until the 1000 ft line, and then your quarter sucks as well. Also, usually with a vacuum modulator, and a cheap shift kit, a th350 will burn the tires into each gear. A fair amount $ less than reprogramming the electronic transmissions shift points and getting the valving set right

for a hobby car that money is a concern with, the th350 is a great choice, but if you havent broken a 4l60e yet (wait til you get around 150,000 miles), dont want to change, or have excessive mileage every year, a 4l60e is a great choice.

all transmissions have a place where they should be used, and if you want to spend $800 on a stall for your stock transmission go ahead, but when I blew my L/U tranny, i found i could get a th350 that would handle around ~500 hp, then buy a 12.5 " 2800 stall, a shiftkit, and a monster tranny cooler for a th350 for $600. Where that stall alone in the lockup would cost more than $450 then need shipping, a tranny cooler, a high buck shiftkit so it would keep locking and thus keep the transmission from cookin itself...

i'm a hobbyist, my '72 350 and 750cfm holley get me about 13 mpg on a good weekend, and in perfect conditions i hit maybe 14 mpg, gas is gas, you drive for fun. drive what you have fun driving

Frank, you don't have a problem building a TH350/400 do you?
Every person has a preference and I can understand you wanting to talk up the 60E but why not offer to build one or the other based on personal choice?
I had really bad luck with the 60E and yeah I prolly got a bad builder but on the other hand I have this wonderful, glowing, nothin but love relationship with my TH400.
I really feel this was the best way to go for me.
Maybe there are some guys out there that would be like "Hey Frank, you do such a great job with the 60Es why don't you build me a TH350 cause thats what I like to run?"

I don't know where you get your info from, but the Mustang dyno 1/4 sim is pretty accurate when you factor in a more realistic 60'. We've seen very consistent results at two different shops with mustang dynos. A Mustang dyno is not a dyno for Mustangs:rolleyes: ...Its a brand of dyno with no relation to the Ford Mustang!!! :rolleyes: We've got several local cars in the 1.40s with 4L60Es and they are doing just fine...So you lost me there....

I tried to follow your logic in your post, but there is none I can see...Sounds like you're calling "BS" on me. I run an N/A 383 with a 4L60E, 3600 Vig, some standard bolt on Spohn suspension stuff, stock springs and shocks, a 12 bolt with 3.73s and an Eaton HD limited slip and the 60's in my sig were on little 255 50 R16 ET Drag Radials on 16x8 stockers. My rwhp on the Mustang dyno was 385. I run at Capitol Raceway in Crofton, MD and would be happy to have you stop by...

No doubt TH350s can be rebuilt fairly inexpensively and are pretty durable, but a good converter is $700-800 no matter if its a lock up type or not. I'm just saying that you can have the best of both worlds for a few more $$$.

"Mustang dynos are not accurate because the Mustang is lighter than an F-body":confused: ....Oh boy....that just kills me...

--Alan

84firebird......That was the first GOOD explanation I have heard as to why the th350 is a better choice. Other than the fact it's lighter (ALWAYS BETTER) it has a better gear ratio throughout the power band.


ABA......As far as the mustang dyno comment, anyone who don't know much about dyno's would have made that mistake. I know the first time I heard "mustang" dyno that's what popped in my head. :) I know you felt attacked by his post and that's why you "went off" back at him. But, he did make a few good points.


As far as the th350 shifting harder, I doubt one could shift harder than the one Frank (CPT) built me. I have honestly broke 2 transmission mounts on the 1-2 shift. Yes, the were cheap-o's from advance auto but still DAMN it shifts hard!;)



Revtime.......Frank does build th350/700R4's and th400's. Here is a link to his website........http://www.cahallperformancetransmissions.com/

LOL...Yea, I guess I forgot to mention that I build 350's and 400's. 16 years ago, I started out building 350's. I was at a rather large shop, so they were considered the "beginners transmission". I built 110 of them in a row, before I went on to anything else. I've got transbraked 400's in a few 8 second street cars, too.
I actually build everything...Fords, Hondas, Nissans, Chryslers, etc. I've just taken on specializing in 4L60Es, because so many opeople misunderstand them, and give them the unnecassary bad reputation.
A 4L60E to 350 swap is pointless UNLESS you're doing it with a transbraked 350. The 350 isn't any stronger. We do have a TH350 in our '70 Camaro. The car runs 10.8, and has had the same trans in it for 3 seasons.
The TH400 is without a doubt the strongest transmission ever put in a factory vehicle (aside from an Allison). Yes, I've built many for Race/Pro Street applications. They do work great and hold up amazingly well. The TH400 will soak up quite a bit more HP to turn, though.
The only reason I try to steer people away from the 3 speeds is just because they're not necessary for most of them. A properly built 700/4L60E will take you deep in the 10's, and get you 1.5X 60 ft. times.
I'm here to help people, also. When you compare the 2 for a swap, MOST of the time it costs more to do a swap. People see that a TH350 or TH400 cost less to build, but...add in the other parts you've got to buy. If one of our customers already has a converter for their A4, then it's cheaper to send it back and have a "clean out" done. That usually runs around $100. Compare that to starting over with a new $500-up 3 speed converter.
To PROPERLY put a TH350 in an f-body, you'll need a Fitz-All kit that has an aluminum block that bolts between the case and the original 700/4L60E tail housing. This makes it possible to use the factory speedo, mount location, and torque arm. This kit also contains a new output shaft, which relocates the speedo drive gear to accomidate the 700/4L60E tailhousing. This is the CORRECT way to do it. Most just try to jam a regular TH350 in. What about a new dipstick tube? Kickdown cable? Driveshaft (400)? Crossmember
(400)? Yes, these parts are readily available, but many forget to incorporate their costs into the swap. Yes, we did alot of 700-350 swaps back in the early 80's. This was when we didn't completely understand these transmissions yet. Now it's hard to even find anyplace that sells the swap kit...just because putting a 350 in where an A4 came out doesn't make any sense anymore.

I've never bad mouthed the 350 or 400. I've built many of both. If you're building a car from scratch and you ask about a race transmission, I'll always suggest a 400, unless it's going to see alot of highway miles...then I'd suggest a 700 (A4).

Too many people take my posts the wrong way. When the 700/4L60E vs. 350/400 debate comes up, I don't defend the A4 because it's the only transmission I build. I defend them because I don't like seeing other members make a mistake that they'll regret later. Yes, I get quite a few customers who want to reinstall an A4 after they've replaced it with a 3-speed. That's only MORE money wasted.

Thanks,
Frank
CPT


Frank, you don't have a problem building a TH350/400 do you?
Every person has a preference and I can understand you wanting to talk up the 60E but why not offer to build one or the other based on personal choice?
I had really bad luck with the 60E and yeah I prolly got a bad builder but on the other hand I have this wonderful, glowing, nothin but love relationship with my TH400.
I really feel this was the best way to go for me.
Maybe there are some guys out there that would be like "Hey Frank, you do such a great job with the 60Es why don't you build me a TH350 cause thats what I like to run?"

I never meant for this thread to turn into a big argument about which tranny is better. I was simply sharing my experience of the swap. Some guys will need the extra gear, I don't. I never wanted to say what I paid, because this site has paying supporting vendors and whatnot, and I will respect that, but...someone did just say that a high stall th350 converter is around $800.00, and I have to say that I paid a lot less than that, and mine is rated for 800+HP.

Frank-My shop used the kit you described. I took a peek and saw the big aluminum spacer between the case and tailshaft. Just to clarify though, I am running stock length driveshaft, stock crossmember, stock torque arm. None of these had to be changed. They had to install a bendable Lokar dipstick tube and since I am running full manual valve body, there was no need to hook up the cable. Also, I have the option, should I go big, to get a transbrake installed. If you want I'll pm you the price I paid in full detail, it's a lot less than what most people think.

I don't generally go off on people...I guess he just kinda rubbed me the wrong way...I shouldn't have said what I said, for that I'm sorry...He kinda started in on me about a dyno that he clearly had no knowledge about, but typed as if he had. He did make a few good points about the TH350, but I just wanted to throw my .02 in that a 4L60E, when built by a competent builder can be a blast to have...It used to stink to drive my 72 Chevelle with 4.10s and TH350 anywhere on the hwy and get 8-10 mpg...Now I get 20 mpg, run mid 11s (which will change with the recently added Kooks LTs, EWP, and Bogarts) and cruise 180 miles each way to OC, MD at 2000 rpms...

The bottom line is don't post up in a condesending tone unless you know what you are talking about...If unsure, then you should ask...Thats what this place is here for. If he didn't know what a Mustang dyno was, then he shouldn't have said what he said...Its not always what you say...its how you say it...

We'll just agree to disagree on why a TH350 is a better choice...Sorry 84firebird...didn't mean to be mean...This is spoda be a fun place to play...:D

--Alan

Too many people take my posts the wrong way. When the 700/4L60E vs. 350/400 debate comes up, I don't defend the A4 because it's the only transmission I build. I defend them because I don't like seeing other members make a mistake that they'll regret later. Yes, I get quite a few customers who want to reinstall an A4 after they've replaced it with a 3-speed. That's only MORE money wasted.

Thanks,
Frank
CPT

Amen to that. That about sums up the whole situation. If you're not running 10's, and pushing your car hard on the street constantly, theres no reason to go to an A3 if you have a competant 4L60 builder. In the end its NOT cheaper and its not getting any cheaper with the cost of gas. I used to be one of those people that said "if yer worried about the gas then you're in the wrong sport". Well, the more you learn the wiser you get. If you can build something to get better gas mileage AND still run like a raped ape, doesnt it only make sense to do so? Its not rocket science. Ill go fast and save money on gas and be able to drive my 400+ HP car from one state to another without breaking the bank. For some, that may not be an issue, because you dont go on long trips, but is that the reason you dont go on long trips? Wouldnt you rather be able to drive your car like it was a daily driver wherever yo wanted without taking out a loan? Besides, as with the gas saying, why cheap out on the tranny? If you aint got another $1k to spend on a tranny then YOU are in the wrong sport. It all sounds good on paper, but do yourself a favor and drive someone else' 350/400 around for a week or 2 and see how annoying it is without OD and exactly how fast that gas gauge drops, and how fast your wallet becomes empty.

I'm not sure who that was directed to, but I DO plan on going tens, and I DO have another grand to drop on a tranny. I would stop misleading people to think that a 4L costs only 1G more. It's at least 1G more when you factor in the converter plus, *hard parts? There isn't even a converter listed on the 4L rebuilders site that stalls at 4000rpm. The highest one I saw was 2800-3200? Kinda vague for a stall listing isn't it. I'd be pretty pissed if i paid 700-800 for a stall that stalls at 2800rpm. And I can hear it now, 4000rpm is too much for the street, well I'll tell you what, mine was custom built for my cars motor, weight, future plans, hp, and it was built "tight". If I just touch the gas, the car moves. When i mash the pedal from a roll, the car launches. How much are converters for 4L's that can do that? More than my tranny/adapter kit/dipstick tube costs, thats how much they are, period.

I'm not sure who that was directed to, but I DO plan on going tens, and I DO have another grand to drop on a tranny. I would stop misleading people to think that a 4L costs only 1G more. It's at least 1G more when you factor in the converter plus, *hard parts? There isn't even a converter listed on the 4L rebuilders site that stalls at 4000rpm. The highest one I saw was 2800-3200? Kinda vague for a stall listing isn't it. I'd be pretty pissed if i paid 700-800 for a stall that stalls at 2800rpm. And I can hear it now, 4000rpm is too much for the street, well I'll tell you what, mine was custom built for my cars motor, weight, future plans, hp, and it was built "tight". If I just touch the gas, the car moves. When i mash the pedal from a roll, the car launches. How much are converters for 4L's that can do that? More than my tranny/adapter kit/dipstick tube costs, thats how much they are, period.


Let me know when your car pulls a 1.46 60 ft. time, like some of our stock internal/nitroused LS1/4L60E cars are. How about 1.51 60ft. times on motor??? Try that with a TH350 and a stock internal LS1.
Do you really want to debate about stall? It takes a good converter to pull those kind of 60's. BTW..ask, before you assume. We offer converters that aren't listed on that particular price list. There are converters available for 4L60E's that stall above 4000 RPM's. $2100 for the best transmission and 4000 stall converter you can buy.

Frank
CPT

I was simply going off of the prices YOU listed on YOUR website. If you offer other converters with higher stalls and better prices, WHY HIDE IT? As for me pulling a 1.46 second 60 foot time, what are you talking about? Are you implying that with a th350 it isn't possible? I don't get it. Let me know when you get your car in the 9's with the 4L. Yes, the 4L has a better first gear than a th350. Last time I checked we don't race dyno's or for 60 feet. Like I said before I never intended for this to get into an argument. I was simply sharing my experience with the swap. I am fully aware that for about 90% of the f-bod automatics out there, they would be better off sticking to the 4L. I just wanted to clear up some confusion about what is involved with the swap, how easy it is, and the driveability with a full-race 3 speed. I don't need people telling me what a bad decision I made.

sorry, i had heard about these 'mustang dynos' before and those people said they were inaccurrate, so i was kinda repeating what i heard, but I could easily be wrong, so you say they are pretty accurate? I'll have to try one then.

My apologies, I didnt know what i was talking about, merely repeating what i heard.

as far as the times i was talking about, joelster, I think that a 1.8 is a helluva time for that car on that day, the way these other guys were talking, i was thinking that they thought it should be turning much faster times when the motor has asthma.

also, ABA i wasn't calling BS on you, i just get skeptical of anything other than a timeslip, too many ricers around here that say their neon does 10s when my friend with his 13 second camaro wipes em up

yea when i wrote that i was kinda annoyed by everyone saying what seemed to me was that a th350 is a crap transmission and when i said that i wanted a timeslip, yea i coulda put that in better words as to what i meant, but i was kinda ticked already, so i went and talked about the benefits of the th350

again my apologies, i'm going to edit that post a bit

Wow. People are pretty passionate about thier transmission choice aren't they. :)
I think it comes down to how you use (or in some cases, abuse) your transmission. I like to upshift and downshift whenever I like, within the limits of the engines RPM capabilities of course. You really can't do that with a 60E, at least everyone says you aren't supposed to.
I have a transbrake, this is still in its infancy with the 60E so time will tell how they hold up with a brake.
And most important to me........Durability, with what I have planned I have doubts about the best 60E in the world holding up. I expect 50k out of my trannies or more and that is THE biggest reason I went with a TH400.

Frank
Thank you very much for taking the time to explain your position on the 60E, I for one was of the mind that you really only liked to build overdrive transmissions and this is why you so staunchly defended them. You know, this is where my bread and butter is so I will go to the mat for the 60E at all times.
I now know that is not the case and can see more clearly your passion for these transmissions.
I have a 95 firebird that will be getting a V8 swap soon and since it won't be the beast the camaro is heading towards I will contact you when I need a new overdrive tranny for it.

Let me know when you get your car in the 9's with the 4L.

I know Cablebandit ran 9's with his race built 4L60E. As far as I know high 9's are as fast as anyone has gone with any form of consistancy behind that transmission.

I can't see you gaining anything (ET/trap) from going 4L60E to TH350 but I'm sure the MVB makes driving the car a lot more fun. But the bottom line is if you're happy with your choice then that's all that really matters. Good luck with the new setup.

. But the bottom line is if you're happy with your choice then that's all that really matters. Good luck with the new setup.
:bow: thats what i like to hear

From the sound of it, it seems like they may have designed your converter a little too tight. If your stall was stalling 4000 rpm and you were sticking on your launch, you should have pulled a way better 60 ft. than 1.85. I pulled 1.98 with a completely stock suspensioned car with boltons (stock converter) and street tires. What does your car flash if you goose it from an idle?

It will flash on a brake torque right up to 4G. I have to say this again though. My motor is MILD! Most of the bolt-ons STOCK EXHAUST MANI's! On a 55 degree day late last year with an awesome track prep my car 60-footed 3 consistent 2.00x's in a row. My best last Sunday was a 1.82 and it was about 80ish with high humidity and a 20-30mph crosswind. It was one of those track days where everyone was running bad. You can't predict what my 60 foot time should be if you don't know anything about whats under the hood.

It will flash on a brake torque right up to 4G. I have to say this again though. My motor is MILD! Most of the bolt-ons STOCK EXHAUST MANI's! On a 55 degree day late last year with an awesome track prep my car 60-footed 3 consistent 2.00x's in a row. My best last Sunday was a 1.82 and it was about 80ish with high humidity and a 20-30mph crosswind. It was one of those track days where everyone was running bad. You can't predict what my 60 foot time should be if you don't know anything about whats under the hood.
the 2.0s were b4 the 350 conversion , and yes stock manis arent helping him a whole lot