Tuning for boost with stock pcm?

My car is at a shop right now getting a blower installed with a forged 383 and fuel system, FMIC etc. They are saying the 94-95 pcms are limited to about 550rwhp. I thought they could handle more HP and that rpm was the limiting factor. Can the MAF tables be changed to handle more then 550hp? I want to run about 15#s of boost and if possible avoid the fast/BS3 setups. Is there anything I can do? Thanks,
Randy

There are a few making 1000 rwhp with the stock PCM and many more making 700+ rwhp with the stock pcm. You are correct in that the PCM is limited to around 7000 RPM, but you dont need any more RPM to make power with boost. I would recommend some kind of tuning software and appropriately sized injectors. People have made big power with the FMU and timing retard, but it's not anywhere close to being as accurate as actual tuning.

I think the fact that the MAF maxes out at 470 or 512 or wherever it is can cause problems with air density on a non-speed density setup. So while you can program the pcm for fuel enrichment, if atmospheric changes happen, the A/F mix might not be the same as it was when you tuned it since the MAF is pegged.

I could be wrong, but I was under the impression that the MAF had nothing to do with fuel enrichment at WOT. The PCM relies solely on the PE tables during WOT to supply the correct AF ratio, and WOT is the only time you're likely to see enough airflow to max out the MAF.

I could be wrong, but I was under the impression that the MAF had nothing to do with fuel enrichment at WOT. The PCM relies solely on the PE tables during WOT to supply the correct AF ratio, and WOT is the only time you're likely to see enough airflow to max out the MAF.

at WOT the PCM uses the MAF airflow reported and the PE tables to modify the MAF inptu to acieve the AF desired. There are ways to run 2-3 bar setups with MAF and make big hp.

There are ways to run 2-3 bar setups with MAF and make big hp.

Can you elaborate, please?

Yeah thanks for clearing that up for me. I would gladly absorb any more knowledge you have on this.

Can you elaborate, please?

that would require giving away a hard earned trade secret. I will talk it over with the powers that be.

while the MAF will be pegged out around ~550ish RWHP, you can instead tune with only speed density, no MAF. This requires runnign a 2 or 3 bar MAP sensor and rescaling all your MAP tables (your fuel enrichment table, MAP vs. RPM is the big one here) so that the computer still thinks its a 1 BAR sensor when in fact it is not. The computer output in a scan program will only read up to 1 Bar, so you have to know your re-scaling factor to know exactly where it is by the scan program... of course you should have a boost guage anyway to tell you this.

bottom line, it IS possible to tune for BIG HP with stock lt1 pcm...just kinda a PITA to make it work.

look into the megasquirt standalone system, i got mine up and running for about $400, completely boost sensative, wideband compatable, real time tuning.

www.diyautotune.com
www.megasquirt.info

What i will be doing is using a Pro-M MAF with it... its completely tuneable...That will ocver the maf limit...

Use a 2bar, first, map sensor and rescale everything. In all it can be done.

With all the stuffs you are going to be using as add ons...

Versafueler,
LTCC,
Pro-M Maf
etc...
Sometimes i think its a better idea to run a standalone.

If i could somehow make a 24x crank sensor that i could adapt to my lt1, i would run an ls1 with the 2 bar map sensor and versafueler and call it a day.

I run a 10# Vortech with custom programming by Jeff Creech using my stock 1995 computer. My MAF maxes out at around 4,500 rpm and Jeff tuned a nice flat AFR of 12, allowing me to put down 593 rwhp.

while the MAF will be pegged out around ~550ish RWHP, you can instead tune with only speed density, no MAF. This requires runnign a 2 or 3 bar MAP sensor and rescaling all your MAP tables (your fuel enrichment table, MAP vs. RPM is the big one here) so that the computer still thinks its a 1 BAR sensor when in fact it is not. The computer output in a scan program will only read up to 1 Bar, so you have to know your re-scaling factor to know exactly where it is by the scan program... of course you should have a boost guage anyway to tell you this.

bottom line, it IS possible to tune for BIG HP with stock lt1 pcm...just kinda a PITA to make it work.

look into the megasquirt standalone system, i got mine up and running for about $400, completely boost sensative, wideband compatable, real time tuning.

www.diyautotune.com
www.megasquirt.info

would you mind telling me how you have the ignition being controlled and what not??? Seeing how the pcm is starting to become a bigger and bigger limiting factor with my future plans... I may have to go to megasquirt (though i think the sniffers will hate me if i move somewhere with emissions...)

I run a 10# Vortech with custom programming by Jeff Creech using my stock 1995 computer. My MAF maxes out at around 4,500 rpm and Jeff tuned a nice flat AFR of 12, allowing me to put down 593 rwhp.

sorry for hi-jacking this...haha i just read your sig, ive seen your can in that mag., i was laid up in a hospital bed in may of 05 and my parents brought me that mag. for reading material...you dont know how many times i read that article...lol

and tuning like you are can be done, obviously, but unless the tuning is done on a dyno with a wideband, its kind of like shooting in the dark, the computer is in open loop, with no self correction of any kind based on MAP, or MAF readings because they will both be maxed out. It can be done though, after all, guys who run carbs and tune by seat of pants driving and checking sparkplugs are more in the dark than we are in this case... just food for thought

would you mind telling me how you have the ignition being controlled and what not??? Seeing how the pcm is starting to become a bigger and bigger limiting factor with my future plans... I may have to go to megasquirt (though i think the sniffers will hate me if i move somewhere with emissions...)

sure thing, the megasquirt II pcm has an on board ingition driver circuit that can be installed during the assembly. i am just using an old school cylinder 12 volt coil driven off the MSII. Im using an obdII crank sensor (for misfires on an OBDII car), which is a 4x even pulse crank sensor. this is used for rpm input on my MSII in the hall sensor setting. because of the uneven slots in the opti wheel, the opti cannot be used as a trigger input with the MSII, so i retrofitted this crank sensor.

the MS can preform just as well as the stock pcm, so as long as your emissions guy doesnt know its there, it can and will pass emmissions with the proper tune... lucky for me, no emissions where i am.

im goin to make a write up soon on my car domain page on how to install a MS on an LT1 since nobody else has been able to figure it out.

BTW, mine is piggy backed on my stock pcm, the stocker is just running guages and reverse lockout...

So let me get this straight, with the stock PCM, tuning on your own past 550 or so RWHP, is pretty difficult, if not nearly impossible. However, am I understanding things correctly, that it can be tuned properly by a dyno tuner when the power could be over 600-650 RWHP?

So let me get this straight, with the stock PCM, tuning on your own past 550 or so RWHP, is pretty difficult, if not nearly impossible. However, am I understanding things correctly, that it can be tuned properly by a dyno tuner when the power could be over 600-650 RWHP?

its not difficult, its just like carb tuning...if you have access to a wideband and a dyno, then you just look at AFR and tune your ve tables according to that.

while the MAF will be pegged out around ~550ish RWHP, you can instead tune with only speed density, no MAF. This requires runnign a 2 or 3 bar MAP sensor and rescaling all your MAP tables (your fuel enrichment table, MAP vs. RPM is the big one here) so that the computer still thinks its a 1 BAR sensor when in fact it is not. The computer output in a scan program will only read up to 1 Bar, so you have to know your re-scaling factor to know exactly where it is by the scan program... of course you should have a boost guage anyway to tell you this.

bottom line, it IS possible to tune for BIG HP with stock lt1 pcm...just kinda a PITA to make it work.


I was thinking this was the solution, but I didn't know you had to rescale the MAP table. I suppose the 2 bar MAPs are still 1-5V? So all you have to do is scale down the MAP fueling table by 2? For example, where it shows 25KPA is where it really should be 50KPA fueling? My car is currently tuned with the MAP table (naturally aspirated) - if I put a 2 bar MAP in and re-mapped the table, it would run exactly as it would before? Makes plenty of sense. Or maybe it wouldn't be perfect as I think the VE table would come into play...

-Alex

sorry for hi-jacking this...haha i just read your sig, ive seen your can in that mag., i was laid up in a hospital bed in may of 05 and my parents brought me that mag. for reading material...you dont know how many times i read that article...lol

and tuning like you are can be done, obviously, but unless the tuning is done on a dyno with a wideband, its kind of like shooting in the dark, the computer is in open loop, with no self correction of any kind based on MAP, or MAF readings because they will both be maxed out. It can be done though, after all, guys who run carbs and tune by seat of pants driving and checking sparkplugs are more in the dark than we are in this case... just food for thought

Jeff Creech flew out to CA and dyno tuned my car on a wideband O2 setup :D

I was thinking this was the solution, but I didn't know you had to rescale the MAP table. I suppose the 2 bar MAPs are still 1-5V? So all you have to do is scale down the MAP fueling table by 2? For example, where it shows 50KPA is where it really should be 25KPA fueling? My car is currently tuned with the MAP table (naturally aspirated) - if I put a 2 bar MAP in and re-mapped the table, it would run exactly as it would before? Makes plenty of sense. Or maybe it wouldn't be perfect as I think the VE table would come into play...

-Alex

you got it...the only problem with this is you loose some resolution on that table...but i honestly dont know how big a deal that is

sure thing, the megasquirt II pcm has an on board ingition driver circuit that can be installed during the assembly. i am just using an old school cylinder 12 volt coil driven off the MSII. Im using an obdII crank sensor (for misfires on an OBDII car), which is a 4x even pulse crank sensor. this is used for rpm input on my MSII in the hall sensor setting. because of the uneven slots in the opti wheel, the opti cannot be used as a trigger input with the MSII, so i retrofitted this crank sensor.

the MS can preform just as well as the stock pcm, so as long as your emissions guy doesnt know its there, it can and will pass emmissions with the proper tune... lucky for me, no emissions where i am.

im goin to make a write up soon on my car domain page on how to install a MS on an LT1 since nobody else has been able to figure it out.

BTW, mine is piggy backed on my stock pcm, the stocker is just running guages and reverse lockout...
well i would use the the MS as a piggyback also... and i think i would do like Perish did on his turbo ls1 truck. Im going to let the pcm control the spark and gauges and whatnot, and have megasquirt control injectors. You foresee any problems doing this?

I was planning on going with the factory PCM with my '95, but I feel that there is too much extra stuff by the time I run a LTCC, MAF Eliminator, Versafueler, etc. like was mentioned earlier. For those reasons I'm just getting a BS3 and getting it over with.

I'm hoping it will save lots of hassles with reliability.

well i would use the the MS as a piggyback also... and i think i would do like Perish did on his turbo ls1 truck. Im going to let the pcm control the spark and gauges and whatnot, and have megasquirt control injectors. You foresee any problems doing this?

no, i just chose to have the ms control everything cause it is boost sensative, and didnt have to mess with tuning two computers

I was planning on going with the factory PCM with my '95, but I feel that there is too much extra stuff by the time I run a LTCC, MAF Eliminator, Versafueler, etc. like was mentioned earlier. For those reasons I'm just getting a BS3 and getting it over with.

I'm hoping it will save lots of hassles with reliability.

im sure it will save lots of hassles...but building your own pcm is just cool imo, i enjoyed doing it, and seeing something you built operate a 1000+ HP motor is just plain sick :death:

im sure it will save lots of hassles...but building your own pcm is just cool imo, i enjoyed doing it, and seeing something you built operate a 1000+ HP motor is just plain sick :death:


well how hard would you say that was to get MSII to control everything??? With all the stuff you rigged up? on a scale of 1-10.. lol...

and how much was the total cost of going from the LT1 PCM to megasquirt run.

sorry for all the questions, but im really stocked about trying megasquirt on something finally.

well how hard would you say that was to get MSII to control everything??? With all the stuff you rigged up? on a scale of 1-10.. lol...

and how much was the total cost of going from the LT1 PCM to megasquirt run.

sorry for all the questions, but im really stocked about trying megasquirt on something finally.

the cost for the MSII, test board (called the stimulator board), and the harness (universal with no pig tails) was about $400. took about 10 hours of soldering to assembly the computer itself.

i traded my obdI timing cover+ $20 for someones obdII cover, sensor, and reluctor wheel. not hard to find someone to trade with as popular as the obdI conversions are for the 96-97 guys

how hard was it...hmm, it was a PITA to figure out how to make the crank trigger work, but now that i know how, its quite easy, i can walk you through it, really not too bad, as long as your competent in wiring/soldering.

the cost for the MSII, test board (called the stimulator board), and the harness (universal with no pig tails) was about $400. took about 10 hours of soldering to assembly the computer itself.

i traded my obdI timing cover+ $20 for someones obdII cover, sensor, and reluctor wheel. not hard to find someone to trade with as popular as the obdI conversions are for the 96-97 guys

how hard was it...hmm, it was a PITA to figure out how to make the crank trigger work, but now that i know how, its quite easy, i can walk you through it, really not too bad, as long as your competent in wiring/soldering.

well im going to buy the complete ready to go board cuz i hate soldering wires and never tried soldering on a board. And since this is going to run my baby im not going to learn on it. LoL.

So imma buy the stimulater and Complete board and wiring harness.

But since i already have a OBDII car, what will I do there on the ignition? And i will still be able to use my mallory box right?

Does MSII only watch the A/F ratio off one o2 sensor (random question i know. but jsut been reading and wondered)?

I have NO tuning experince at all.. i just know where my A/f ration needs to be generaly. But that is as deep as i know... so will i have a lot of probelms and a steep learning curve or what?


THanks for your help man... lol... at least i will be able to help others when i get this done a through with....

the only problem you'll have is the MAF and all you need to get is a pro M maf and get a good tuner. its as simple as that nothing else needs to be said . thats it!

There are ways to make the stock PCM read boost and work really well. I just chose to avoid the aggravation of splicing anything into the stock harness, like an accelleronics box, Pro-M MAF, etc. With a big turbo, I just decided to go with an aftermarket ECM to control everything.


I bought a FAST bank-to-bank ECM and a PCB Interface from White Racing and mounted it in place of the stock PCM (threw the stock PCM in a drawer in the garage).

The PCB interface allows you to totally get rid of the stock PCM. It's plug and play in that I didn't have to touch the stock wiring harness. I plugged the FAST into one side and the stock harness into the other. The only extra wiring added was for the programming cable and WB02 sensor -- a harness for that came with it. The PCB interface also controls all the stock gauges, including the speedo -- a set of dip switches are used for gear changes.

The best part about it was that I installed a FAST system in 15 minutes without cutting and splicing any wires.

I have a 6 speed, so I didn't have to worry about the transmission, but there are ways around the electronic auto transmissions as well.

There are ways to make the stock PCM read boost and work really well. I just chose to avoid the aggravation of splicing anything into the stock harness, like an accelleronics box, Pro-M MAF, etc. With a big turbo, I just decided to go with an aftermarket ECM to control everything.


I bought a FAST bank-to-bank ECM and a PCB Interface from White Racing and mounted it in place of the stock PCM (threw the stock PCM in a drawer in the garage).

The PCB interface allows you to totally get rid of the stock PCM. It's plug and play in that I didn't have to touch the stock wiring harness. I plugged the FAST into one side and the stock harness into the other. The only extra wiring added was for the programming cable and WB02 sensor -- a harness for that came with it. The PCB interface also controls all the stock gauges, including the speedo -- a set of dip switches are used for gear changes.

The best part about it was that I installed a FAST system in 15 minutes without cutting and splicing any wires.

I have a 6 speed, so I didn't have to worry about the transmission, but there are ways around the electronic auto transmissions as well.


that is great an all.. i mean really.. that owuld totaly kick ass.. .

But with that you got to pay to play. MSII is cheap. Very cheap... and super versitale. I mean i pay $600 for everything (on the high side, but im buying everything pre-made) and I have full control. What is not to love about that?

BUt I think the learning curve is goin to be steep :-/

There are ways to make the stock PCM read boost and work really well. I just chose to avoid the aggravation of splicing anything into the stock harness, like an accelleronics box, Pro-M MAF, etc. With a big turbo, I just decided to go with an aftermarket ECM to control everything.


I bought a FAST bank-to-bank ECM and a PCB Interface from White Racing and mounted it in place of the stock PCM (threw the stock PCM in a drawer in the garage).

The PCB interface allows you to totally get rid of the stock PCM. It's plug and play in that I didn't have to touch the stock wiring harness. I plugged the FAST into one side and the stock harness into the other. The only extra wiring added was for the programming cable and WB02 sensor -- a harness for that came with it. The PCB interface also controls all the stock gauges, including the speedo -- a set of dip switches are used for gear changes.

The best part about it was that I installed a FAST system in 15 minutes without cutting and splicing any wires.

I have a 6 speed, so I didn't have to worry about the transmission, but there are ways around the electronic auto transmissions as well.

So what did all of that cost? The FAST setup, the PCB interface, and the wideband setup to go with it...

the PCB was expensive... It was $680ish. To me, it was well spent because I was able to have the FAST system up and running in minutes, got rid of the stock PCM (place to mount the FAST), and I had no wire splicing to do.

I already had a used FAST ECM w/ WBO2 sensor to go with it. You can probably get used for around $900 bringing your total setup to around $1600. It's steep compared to megasquirt, but the time saved was more than worth it.

For less than 2000$ (or right around there for all new stuff) to have a plug and play setup that has better controlability all around than the stock setup, and still retain all dash function, etc... seems worth it to me. :)


I take it you still utilize the optispark?

For less than 2000$ (or right around there for all new stuff) to have a plug and play setup that has better controlability all around than the stock setup, and still retain all dash function, etc... seems worth it to me. :)


I take it you still utilize the optispark?

Yup, but for the optical sensor only. I use a Delteq for spark. When I found that a new FAST splice-in harness was $350, the $680 didn't seem so bad. ;)

I think the extra money was well worth it not to sit in the engine bay with a soldering iron, cussing at my car for a few hours. I hate wiring. 15 minute install and the dead weight of the stock computer is gone. :cool:

For less than 2000$ (or right around there for all new stuff) to have a plug and play setup that has better controlability all around than the stock setup, and still retain all dash function, etc... seems worth it to me. :)


I take it you still utilize the optispark?

my MSII only uses the cap and rotor of the opti to throw spark

and i got everything you did for less than $500 ...but add in about 20 hours of work...so i guess its just a matter of how much time you have and how deep your pockets are.

well im going to buy the complete ready to go board cuz i hate soldering wires and never tried soldering on a board. And since this is going to run my baby im not going to learn on it. LoL.

So imma buy the stimulater and Complete board and wiring harness.

But since i already have a OBDII car, what will I do there on the ignition? And i will still be able to use my mallory box right?

Does MSII only watch the A/F ratio off one o2 sensor (random question i know. but jsut been reading and wondered)?

I have NO tuning experince at all.. i just know where my A/f ration needs to be generaly. But that is as deep as i know... so will i have a lot of probelms and a steep learning curve or what?


THanks for your help man... lol... at least i will be able to help others when i get this done a through with....


anyone able to answer?

anyone able to answer?

you will still be able to use your mallory box, but it will have to be hooked up differently, as if you were hooking it up to a car that utilizes points.

yes the MSII only watches o2 from one sensor, you can install two with a toggle switch to go back and forth, or just assume that both banks are running the same...thats entirely your call, but as of now, its only able to watch one o2 input

it is a fairly steep learning curve, but the MSII has an auto tune function based on o2, map, rpm, and ignition readings to help you dial your tune in. do some reading at www.msefi.com and www.megasquirt.info for more in depth info on tuning, eveythign you need to know can be found at one of these two sites.

and about helpin others, man thats what this site is all about!:D

I already had a used FAST ECM w/ WBO2 sensor to go with it. You can probably get used for around $900 bringing your total setup to around $1600. It's steep compared to megasquirt, but the time saved was more than worth it.

not tryin to be a dick, im saying this to try and help others make an informed decision about the cost of these "plug and play" stand alone systems.

Going the MS route i basically saved between $60 and $80 an hour doing it myself...about 20 hours labor, saved $1200 over your setup, and about $1600over a FAST setup...and if i did another one, im sure i could have the car up and running in under 15 hours

not tryin to be a dick, im saying this to try and help others make an informed decision about the cost of these "plug and play" stand alone systems.

Going the MS route i basically saved between $60 and $80 an hour doing it myself...about 20 hours labor, saved $1200 over your setup, and about $1600over a FAST setup...and if i did another one, im sure i could have the car up and running in under 15 hours


Will,

I already have an obd 2 timing cover that I removed for my cloyes true roller. Would I be able to set up the crank trigger with a cloyes true roller or would I have to digress back to the stock timing chain setup?

Thanks

Will,

I already have an obd 2 timing cover that I removed for my cloyes true roller. Would I be able to set up the crank trigger with a cloyes true roller or would I have to digress back to the stock timing chain setup?

Thanks

you cannot use the gm crank sensor with the cloyes true roller, but you can use a generic small block chevy crank sensor out of any summit catalog, somethign similar to summit part number MSD-8610

you cannot use the gm crank sensor with the cloyes true roller, but you can use a generic small block chevy crank sensor out of any summit catalog, somethign similar to summit part number MSD-8610

oh.. and on that... what about my car with the optispark thing? I have a OBDII car already... what do i do there?

oh.. and on that... what about my car with the optispark thing? I have a OBDII car already... what do i do there?


too add to this.. i dont need to buy any sensors or special wiring pigtails of any sort do i? I can jsut the the stock sensors and plugs to wirign into megasquirt and im set correct?


Thanks a lot... i may have to start ordering this ****...

too add to this.. i dont need to buy any sensors or special wiring pigtails of any sort do i? I can jsut the the stock sensors and plugs to wirign into megasquirt and im set correct?


Thanks a lot... i may have to start ordering this ****...

yes use all your stock pigtails...thats what i did

opti stays hooked up like normal so it runs the tach, but the coil is driven off the msII, so the opti is not actually controlling anything

How many pulses does thatwheel give? I would like a 24x signal so i can install a ls1 computer....

yes use all your stock pigtails...thats what i did

opti stays hooked up like normal so it runs the tach, but the coil is driven off the msII, so the opti is not actually controlling anything


Ok... so to use the opti im going to use my existing crank sensor to give the signal to the MSII for spark??

lol.. cant say thanks enough.. thanks again..

Ok... so to use the opti im going to use my existing crank sensor to give the signal to the MSII for spark??

lol.. cant say thanks enough.. thanks again..

exactly...and PM me when you get it all wired up, ill tell you how to set up the ingition parameters in the tuning software to make it all work

exactly...and PM me when you get it all wired up, ill tell you how to set up the ingition parameters in the tuning software to make it all work


well im graduating and moving out probly... so it will probly be a lil bit of time before i can spare $600 for it. PLus i need to have my other truck running so I can afford to have some down time on the T/A (cuz right now it is my daily...).

Lets make a lil situation real quick... lets say i have it all wired and ready to rock. How long beforei oculd have it tuned good enough to drive everyday? Cuz like you and I said, the learning curve is steep. So Im curious how long it owuld take to get going...

Is there any way i can download megatune and play with it and set up a "tune" right now wihtout having anyhting else?

Funny how a thread about the stock pcm turns into stand alone systems, ls1 computers etc. Hopefully someone learned somthing!

Is there any way i can download megatune and play with it and set up a "tune" right now without having anyhting else?


bump

bump
yea i think you can, go to the tuning section of the www.megasquirt.info page ...a link to megatune is there

the PCB was expensive... It was $680ish. To me, it was well spent because I was able to have the FAST system up and running in minutes, got rid of the stock PCM (place to mount the FAST), and I had no wire splicing to do.

I already had a used FAST ECM w/ WBO2 sensor to go with it. You can probably get used for around $900 bringing your total setup to around $1600. It's steep compared to megasquirt, but the time saved was more than worth it.

Well were should someone look for a used Fast XFI setup? I mean most people don't really jsut get rid of that big of a investment...

In more food for thought, a friend of mine mentioned the whole "megasquirt" thing to me a while back - but when i first looked it over I didnt want to get that deep into things so I decided not to do it on my car.

He used the "auto tune" on a rotary engine and to my amazement it worked suprisingly well. I wouldnt have thought it would work so well for a "tune itself" sort of setup - it was quite accurate. I dont know how effective it would be on some of our cars though, as running lean while it figures things out might mean the end of a piston of something.

Will-
Considering you've done what I thought to be too insane (and seem to have great results!) what do you feel about the auto tune on our cars? Seem viable? Also, did you ever consider allowing the MS2 to function in a way to provide traction control? Either it could be used with the speed sensors to pull timing, or just "gimmick" it so that if the rpm increases above a certain rate that it pulls timing... Having a reasonable and effective traction control system for $600 on a 600+rwhp car would be a good investment all on its own!

Im curious how well the stock pcm does speed density... because that is really all i want... and something i can tune well...

In more food for thought, a friend of mine mentioned the whole "megasquirt" thing to me a while back - but when i first looked it over I didnt want to get that deep into things so I decided not to do it on my car.

He used the "auto tune" on a rotary engine and to my amazement it worked suprisingly well. I wouldnt have thought it would work so well for a "tune itself" sort of setup - it was quite accurate. I dont know how effective it would be on some of our cars though, as running lean while it figures things out might mean the end of a piston of something.

Will-
Considering you've done what I thought to be too insane (and seem to have great results!) what do you feel about the auto tune on our cars? Seem viable? Also, did you ever consider allowing the MS2 to function in a way to provide traction control? Either it could be used with the speed sensors to pull timing, or just "gimmick" it so that if the rpm increases above a certain rate that it pulls timing... Having a reasonable and effective traction control system for $600 on a 600+rwhp car would be a good investment all on its own!

im sure the traction control idea can be made to work, there is room left on all MS boards called a "proto area" for extra circuits to be added, then the code just has to be written, but that is over my head. There is a build in rev limiter that will pull either timing or fuel, but it is controlled by rpms.

the autotune feature will work very well with a wideband sensor, i am only running a narrowband, stock o2 sensor for right now, so i have only used the autotune for idle and cruising around, and it has proven to work quite well. The problem with the narrowband and autotune is if you are running so rich that you have unburned fuel in the exhaust, the o2 sensor will read that unburned fuel as dead lean, and then autotune will add more fuel, creating an even richer engine. so with a narrowband, the tune has to be somewhat close before you can use the autotune feature. My MSII has been awesome so far and i highly recomend it to anyone, all you need is basic soldering skills and patience...then you can go spend the $2K you saved on a 9 inch rear end :D