Mustang GT vs GTO. Which is more fun to drive?

I've driven them both.....and I've got to say (flame suit on).....the Mustang GT.

I'll let you guys flame me for awhile..I'll be back in abit.

Driven the GTO, loved it. What made the GT more fun?

Maybe you had more girls staring at you in the GT? :D

Don't get me wrong James, I enjoyed the GTO as well. The LS2 especially, is a lusty mountain of torque.

I've previously driven a base V6/A5 Mustang, which sort of left me unimpressed. Today I drove a 5 speed manual GT and absolutely loved it.

Why more fun than the GTO? Even with the 100hp difference, many things. Seating position for one. The GT's chassis just feels so much lighter on it's feet than the GTO. Maybe alot of that has to do with the weight difference. But really more than that...it's just feels more eager to play. The steering felt much more precise. The clutch feels better in the GT and the shifter feels WAY better. Kind of the same shifter feel as maybe a BMW or Miata. The shifter was darned near perfect - really short throws too. On previous drives in the GTO, I remember acouple of times when I was matching engine revs for a downshift into a corner...the shift linkage bound up and I had to fiddle with it to get in gear. Buzz kill.

I guess the bottom line is that the Mustang GT feels like a ponycar and the GTO feels like a large powerful sedan to me. Both are good, but only one can be the most fun.

Honestly, if you want to know the truth, the GT felt alot like my IROC after going to finishing school. No rattles. Better rigidity. More engine RPM. Smoother. Better rear suspension (no mid corner two step).

Anyway, I liked it a bunch...more than I thought I would.

Driven the GTO, loved it. What made the GT more fun?

Same here...but I only drove an LS1 GTO

Hmm....the 6-speed LS2 that I drove felt really precise, every shift was dead on. The car felt kind of heavy at low speeds, but step on the throttle and the GTO feels much lighter and agile

Fair enough Charlie. No need for a flame, if anything, I would say your comments lend credence to the article that said the Mustang was more fun to drive, even though the GTO beat it in almost every performance category.

Myself, I am somewhat in the middle, I enjoy quality handling, but think I prefer the feeling of raw horsepower JUST a bit more. The SS Camaro's were perfect for me, in that they had great horsepower and torque, and when optioned right, the were damn tight in the twisties (even if it cost you a kidney :) )

Bottom line, I would say I prefer a good handling muscle car to a great handling, lower powered car.

PS- I will give you that the GTO's shifter was very baulky. Seems to be one of the first mods people make when they buy the 6 speed. Even the shifter in my Dad's 05 Z51 was a little notchy, think I am going to buy him a hurst shifter for Fathers Day (loved the feel of those hurst's on the SS).

I guess the bottom line is that the Mustang GT feels like a ponycar and the GTO feels like a large powerful sedan to me. Both are good, but only one can be the most fun.

Honestly, if you want to know the truth, the GT felt alot like my IROC after going to finishing school. No rattles. Better rigidity. More engine RPM. Smoother. Better rear suspension (no mid corner two step).
I haven't driven the new Mustang, just sat in one before getting my 05 GTO. Seating wise, I don't recall any significant advantage for the Mustang. Seats and seating position/sight lines are excellent in the GTO (far better than the 95 Formula I had before it). Visibility out the rear quarters is much better in the GTO than the Stang. Rear visibility, about a wash, but better in the GTO than the Stang when I remove my rear spoiler from my GTO (I run without the spoiler in the summer, with it in the winter, just for kicks). IP ergonomics, hands DOWN the GTO is the winner there. I love having a speedo in the DIC, use it all the time to help me avoid getting attention from ol' Smoky. Gauges are much more readable and contemporary in the GTO than the Mustang. The suspension - well sorry but I don't really see how the Mustang's primitive live axle would hold a candle to the GTO's well-developed IRS, especially on real (irregular) roads. Shifting is a moot point for me since our GTO is an A4 so my wife can drive it now and then when we switch cars. I love the A4 and electronic throttle tuning on my GTO. In mild driving it shifts up to 2 quickly and feels like a 'normal' car. Put your foot in it though... WOW you better be holding on with both hands! :cool:

Which brings me to the key attribute IMHO - power and torque. THIS is really the key that makes the GTO more fun. It's a wild, untamed, snarling pit bull of an engine under that hood. Sure, this is a heavier car (the Stang's no welterweight either BTW). It also has a much more capable back seat (I could not sit up straight in the back of the Stang, nor place my knees anywhere with comfort, things I can do easily in my GTO). So the whole comparison is a bit of a misnomer anyway. The GTO IS a bigger car inside, where it counts. Its great the Stang is a hit, yes it sells a lot of units, hooray that will help the business case of future GM muscle cars... But in my book the more exclusive and capable GTO wins hands down :bow:

Don't get me wrong James, I enjoyed the GTO as well. The LS2 especially, is a lusty mountain of torque.

I've previously driven a base V6/A5 Mustang, which sort of left me unimpressed. Today I drove a 5 speed manual GT and absolutely loved it.

Why more fun than the GTO? Even with the 100hp difference, many things. Seating position for one. The GT's chassis just feels so much lighter on it's feet than the GTO. Maybe alot of that has to do with the weight difference. But really more than that...it's just feels more eager to play. The steering felt much more precise. The clutch feels better in the GT and the shifter feels WAY better. Kind of the same shifter feel as maybe a BMW or Miata. The shifter was darned near perfect - really short throws too. On previous drives in the GTO, I remember acouple of times when I was matching engine revs for a downshift into a corner...the shift linkage bound up and I had to fiddle with it to get in gear. Buzz kill.

I guess the bottom line is that the Mustang GT feels like a ponycar and the GTO feels like a large powerful sedan to me. Both are good, but only one can be the most fun.

Honestly, if you want to know the truth, the GT felt alot like my IROC after going to finishing school. No rattles. Better rigidity. More engine RPM. Smoother. Better rear suspension (no mid corner two step).

Anyway, I liked it a bunch...more than I thought I would.

A great review! :)

Your comments also reflect the criticism of most scribes here... the Commodore/Monaro's chassis dynamics and gearshift quality are inferior compared to their Ford rivals. Hopefully the VE chassis will overcome the present imbalance that clearly favour the Fords for driveability ease and relaxed motoring. Mustang sounds like it has some of the same DNA.

Just goes to show, don't just take a 'scribes' word for it before considering your next purchase, take a test drive and draw your own conclusions!

Says he, GM to the bone! :bow:

Your comments also reflect the criticism of most scribes here... the Commodore/Monaro's chassis dynamics and gearshift quality are inferior compared to their Ford rivals.

:confused: How many of the "scribes here" have driven an 05-06 GTO? Maybe five or six? :rolleyes:

I do agree there are some widely known issues with the GTO M6 shifter (easily remedied with an aftermarket piece BTW)... but this stuff about chassis dynamics being better on the new Stang, well that's baloney IMHO. The GTO's IRS is vastly better than any live axle, when it comes to doing spirited driving on real roads.

:confused: How many of the "scribes here" have driven an 05-06 GTO? Maybe five or six? :rolleyes:

I do agree there are some widely known issues with the GTO M6 shifter (easily remedied with an aftermarket piece BTW)... but this stuff about chassis dynamics being better on the new Stang, well that's baloney IMHO. The GTO's IRS is vastly better than any live axle, when it comes to doing spirited driving on real roads.

I guess I can't speak for the Mustang... but the criticisms levelled at GTO sound familiar. I'll opt out of this discussion but will say that Monaro absolutely flogged an imported current model 4.6L Mustang in a recent Wheels magazine test. Mustang didn't even come close in terms of performance, handling and ergonomics.

Each to their own, I guess.

Interesting. Looks like I made the right choice for a daily driver, then.

I do agree with the shifter. They are some long throws.

Imagine an LS2 in a thirdgen :cool:

Drove both on multiple occasions....

Mustang does feel more nimble. Not a huge difference but noticeable. GTO has considerable at speed off throttle under steer as compared to Mustang. Set of adjustable sway bars are in my future. The extra GTO heft is noticeable but not as much as you would think. The GTO overall is very composed and seems to work well within itself.

The OEM Shifter is more precise in the Mustang. In the GTO I installed a $200 B&M Ripper.

Mustang exterior styling wise says more than the GTO.

GTO has considerably more torque available at lower RPM's.

GTO has a six speed versus the Mustang five.

Mustang beltline is high to my liking. Feels like I was driving a coffin. Almost like I had to look "up: just to see "out".

Mustang back seat feels just as cramped as the previous SN95 models. Mustang trunk is huge compared to the GTO. Couldn't Ford have swapped some of the trunk space for rear passenger seat room?

GTO has a very small trunk.

Mustang HUGE tunnel gauge pods for Speed and RPM. Don't care for only using 180 degrees of the entire circle for the gauge sweep. Not much on the Mustang retro interior.

Mustang door panels large flat sheet of plastic. Mustang speaker grills on door panels look like an after thought. GTO hands down has a better flowing interior. The GTO upon my first sit in the driver seat just fit right.

Don't care much for the GTO A pillar width. As the pillar works it way into over the door the enormous width of the structure interferes with the bill of my ball cap when I'm wearing one.

GTO has gorgeous interior design, the way the dash flows into the door panels. The materials used in the GTO are very nice for this level of car.

Pop the hood on both. The GTO has an awesome engine compartment appearance. Clean, uncluttered. Mustang appears... well I dunno... but it's not uncluttered and just doesn't say much.

In summary the GTO powertrain, and drivetrain are very solid and work well together. The interior of the GTO is great, the rear seat room is awesome.

My vote, with my pocket book, GTO

http://www.getyasome.net/gto/030406/index.html

I can't disagree with anything in your post, Derek.

I guess I can't speak for the Mustang... but the criticisms levelled at GTO sound familiar. I'll opt out of this discussion but will say that Monaro absolutely flogged an imported current model 4.6L Mustang in a recent Wheels magazine test. Mustang didn't even come close in terms of performance, handling and ergonomics.

Each to their own, I guess.

I can see the GTO outperforming it...the LS2 is simply a brute. The GT feels more comparable to an LS1 GTO in acceleration.

Let's not also forget about price. The Mustang GT I drove was very nicely equipped for $27,500.

This looks like even more of a reason Ford should build a Mustang based sedan.

This looks like even more of a reason Ford should build a Mustang based sedan.


Absolutely agree! Would meet my DD needs perfectly.

Great reviews from everyone, even being a die hard GTO fan even I can see the attraction for the Mustang. It's a great looking car, and performs very well even if it's not as good as ther GTO on paper. I can understand it feeling lighter on it's feet- could that be due to the independant rear? I know my LT-1 Firehawk feels much lighter on its feet but not near as nimble if that makes sense...

I can see the GTO outperforming it...the LS2 is simply a brute. The GT feels more comparable to an LS1 GTO in acceleration.

Let's not also forget about price. The Mustang GT I drove was very nicely equipped for $27,500.

Monaro was only available with an LS1. You guys got the good hardware! :(

Haven't driven a Mustang GT yet, but I've driven the GTO & rented a Mustang V6 twice, including to the Camaro unveiling. :lol:


The 2 cars feel like they have different purposes, and carry out those purposes well. The GTO feels more like a road car, something you'd take on the interstate, and eat up alot of miles in comfort. The Mustang feels more like a car you'd take as a daily driver with multiple stops. I felt the V6 handled very well, and was fun to toss. GTO felt more like it was carved from padded granite.

Given a choice between the 2 (new car to new car), I think the Mustang is the better car. The GTO is the cheapest 400 horse new car you're going to find in any showroom on the planet, but when you balence everything out, as much as I love the new GTO, I'd give the nod to Mustang GT. For $6K less there's alot of stuff you give up, but on balence, the only thing that still would make me prefer a GTO over a Mustang is that I KNOW the structure and materials are going to hold up extremely well because the car was designed for far tougher stuff than what our cars here are typically designed for.

Now, if the choice is between a slightly used 2004 GTO and a new Mustang, then things aren't so cut & dry. :D

For $6K less there's alot of stuff you give up,
Huh? Take a look at real street prices at edmunds.com. There I found, trying to equip an 06 Stang GT to be like my GTO (A4) the Stang ends up at $30k. Yet edmunds has the street price of a new GTO at $31,900. $6k my foot :rolleyes:

Huh? Take a look at real street prices at edmunds.com. There I found, trying to equip an 06 Stang GT to be like my GTO (A4) the Stang ends up at $30k. Yet edmunds has the street price of a new GTO at $31,900. $6k my foot :rolleyes:

Am I reading this wrong or are you comparing the street price of the GTO to the MSRP of the Mustang? :confused:

I've driven both. The Mustang is cheaper and more 'tossable'. The GTO is more ponderous and expensive.

Am I reading this wrong or are you comparing the street price of the GTO to the MSRP of the Mustang?
Honest to God... I often think I'm the ONLY person who goes and checks these things. Of Course I was comparing street price to street price. The fact is, a Mustang GT, loaded to be similarly equipped as a new GTO (except of course for the powerful engine), has a STREET price within $2k of the GTO's STREET price. edmunds compiles their data from actual transactions.

It's funny....all the car mags raved the GTO was tossable when it first came out....then the Mustang came out and the GTO is like yesterdays news.

I have never driven the new Mustang....it appeals to me greatly...and I would just want it more if I drove it.

Unfortunatly I just cannot own one....it would be like the Maytag man having a Whirlpool washer.

doesn't everyone already own a mustang ? I see like 50 a day..yaaaaawwn

I haven't had chance to drive a stock GT, but the Saleen (base model - 325hp, all the $$ goes in the suspension) was a blast. To me the suspension was "just right", not too hard or soft, and that in MI with 20" wheels iirc. Its hard to explain well, but I didn't notice the solid axle at all and enjoyed not having to worry about cv shaft breakage, while still handling like it was on rails. The sales girl said that it was tighter, better handling than the regular GT, in which case I'm not sure I'd want to drive one, as the Saleen hit the 'sweet spot' perfectly for me.

It had the typical 4.6L weak low end, but took off once you had a couple grand on the tach. When I say weak, I'm comparing to the GTA (L98) not the Neon :). It would definatly win the 600rpm 4th gear pull against any 4cyl!! BTW the sales girl started to freak out when I squaked 2nd, that felt good.

Unfortunatly, the local Pontiac dealer wanted to run a credit check just to go for a test drive, thats when I turned around and walked away. Oh well, I'm sure I'll drive a GTO sooner or later.

a fun to drive car is sometimes better to drive than a better performer. C&D tested the srt-8 versus the cts-v. the srt-8 was faster and more comfortable, but all the editors said they'd much rather drive the cts-v.

Neither were that fun to drive at all. Big cars never really are.

The Mustang was waaay to grown up to be fun and had the same poor visability that my Camaro has.

The GTO was huge and the shifter was gawwd awful.

BTW Z28forever, we own a Miata here and the GT's shifter is not even on the same wave-legnth as it. :) It has to be at least 2x the throw and the stick and knob themselves are about 3x the size, all things that affect the feel of the shifter IMHO.

I guess you have to own one and drive it daily to understand the perfectnes of that shifter or an S2000's shifter. Go back to back and you will notice. I did, as that was what I drove up in for the test drive :)

Neither were that fun to drive at all. Big cars never really are.

The Mustang was waaay to grown up to be fun and had the same poor visability that my Camaro has.

The GTO was huge and the shifter was gawwd awful.

BTW Z28forever, we own a Miata here and the GT's shifter is not even on the same wave-legnth as it. :) It has to be at least 2x the throw and the stick and knob themselves are about 3x the size, all things that affect the feel of the shifter IMHO.

I guess you have to own one and drive it daily to understand the perfectnes of that shifter or an S2000's shifter. Go back to back and you will notice. I did, as that was what I drove up in for the test drive :)

Yeah, you're probably right. It's been a long time since I've driven a Miata. I seem to remember being able to shift with almost a flick of my wrist. Anyway, the Mustang's shifter felt way closer to a Miata's to me, than to a GTO's.

And I don't disagree about the size either, Mustang would have been more fun had it been smaller. But again, I was comparing it to the GTO.

Anyway, what's the big take-away here? People notice stuff. Stuff that will make or break the fun-to-drive factor. Something I hope the next Camaro has in spades. All the horsepower in the world won't give you it, if you don't already have that "baked in".

Honest to God... I often think I'm the ONLY person who goes and checks these things. Of Course I was comparing street price to street price. The fact is, a Mustang GT, loaded to be similarly equipped as a new GTO (except of course for the powerful engine), has a STREET price within $2k of the GTO's STREET price. edmunds compiles their data from actual transactions.

And once you could load up a Pontiac Firehawk to come within $2K of a Corvette too. :think:

Point is "Street Price" is a nationwide average, and varies region to region, or even city to city. I'm betting RWD cars are cheaper in Maine than in California. Mustangs sell at higher prices in the Bay Area than in San Diego.

MSRP is consistant nationwide.

GTO's starting MSRP is $32,000. Mustang GT's starting price is just over $25,000.

The GT's already pretty well equpted, so the only options I'd get is a stereo & rim upgrade.

I'm a very big GTO fan, but there's no denying that the cover charge to get into a GTO is $6,000 more than to get into Mustang GT.

Most people aren't going to check every option in the book.

I've never driven a new Mustang, and the only GTO I drove was an '04 M6. It was a great car, but despite the great power (the LAST thing I thought the '04 GTO needed was more power!!!), I really LIKED it, but I didn't LOVE it. The style is hard to love, but easy to like. It was too quiet with the OEM exhaust. It rode too nice.

It was, in essence, what Charlie said...a phenomenal 2 door sedan, which is what a GTO SHOULD BE.

I drove an '04 Mustang GT shortly thereafter that I was trying to get for a fire sale price because the '05s were inbound, I still don't like the new design, I knew the car would sit, and I kinda wanted a brand new muscle car for a driver at that point, and couldn't afford a GTO. THAT car was fun. It was louder, rode a little rougher, felt more tossable, was lighter on its feet, and had a scrappy little ATTITUDE. In bright red with the charcoal Bullitts, it was a fun car to look at, too. Without question, I am sure the new one is better in every way (but, it is larger and heavier...).

Fun to drive to me, in essence, is the way a 3rd and 4th gen drives and feels. A 3rd gen glues you to the road, sits you 2" above it, allows you to feel every pebble in the road, and feels like its glued to your senses. My V6 '89 RS was slow as hell, but it was FUN on backroads...dare I say more fun than my '89 Formula, WS6 package and all? The RS weighed 250 lbs less, all of it over the front wheels. The WS6 may have had more all out grip, but the RS would turn NOW, and remains the most fun car I ever owned to charge down a twisty back road with. The Formula's turn in was not nearly as crisp, despite better tires and brand new suspension bits (compared to the 96k mile old front struts on my RS when I sold it).

A 4th gen looses some of that road feel, but gives a drastically better structure and ride. It still sits low, feels wide, and begs you to beat the crap out of it on a backroad. That is what I love about Camaros, and pray this aspect shines through in a 5th gen.

In a GTO, it does not. A lack of refinement HELPS make these cars a joy, in a way...too much weight and too much filtering will hinder this.

That is what I love about Camaros, and pray this aspect shines through in a 5th gen.

.

And that was sort of the reason for this thread. We're hearing all about big horsepower numbers - and believe me - I'll take it! But that is not nearly enough. And I hope those working on the 5th gen remember that.

I couldn't agree more. I'll be honest...maybe it was my 135hp, 2.8 Camaro education...maybe its my odd fetish for MGs (my dad has a pristine, Brit-Tek modified-engined '75 MGB), Miatas and Mini Coopers...

Tossability is something I love, and need in a 5th. If I feel like I'm driving through Novicaine, I absolutely will purchase a 3rd gen. I miss that wired-to-my-senses feeling a third gives you. I miss the raw feeling of it. Again, I don't want a rattle-your-teeth, rattle-trap like a 3rd gen for a 5th gen...we've moved on. But that raw, boisterous, elemental appeal that a 3rd and 4th gen gives you is completely gone in a GTO.

My Camaro might have been slow, but it was still elemental and in your face when you drove it. The OEM exhaust burbled (a 2.8 Camaro actually has a great exhaust note to it, for those who may remember them new)...it turned on a dime...the t-tops let the elements in...it had a stance like no other, nice and low, lower than a 4th gen for sure. It was rude and crude, and it was great fun. Remembering wringing the hell out of the 2.8 on the backroads, leaving it in second gear on the A4 and gunning it from apex to apex still brings a stupid grin to my face. That little 2.8 was pretty gutless, but it sounded good and was a willing partner over 4,500 or so. I added a chip, gutted the airboxes, added K&N's and a full Accel ignition, and she'd rev pretty good...

In Medium Grey Metallic with tinted windows and the OEM 15" alloys, with the IROC tailights I added, it was a mean looking little car. It was as fun to look at as it was to drive. We need the total package again...the Mustang is that car for so many. Its a little raw...its elemental...and the look is mean (even if I hate it). The 5th gen Camaro, in all honesty, is the most attractive car since a 3rd gen Camaro, IMO. Wide, low, mean and ready to go...I love it.

But if it doesn't have t-tops and feels too GTO-like, I won't even bother with it :( Muscle cars have grown up, but if they grow up too much, they're taking away the ONE thing that could make a 135hp, 3,100 lb car fun...and man, did I have fun for four years...I miss that car a lot, 4 years after I sold it :(

Anyway, what's the big take-away here? People notice stuff. Stuff that will make or break the fun-to-drive factor. Something I hope the next Camaro has in spades. All the horsepower in the world won't give you it, if you don't already have that "baked in".

Couldn't agree more.

lets not get out of shape on shifters. lol those can be easily changed. my hurst shifter is nicer than a stock porsche shifter, but that is because i spent 150 bucks on it. i'd love to drive a gto. the looks are not thrilling...but if it was brought out as a sport sedan i think people would like it more. the '06 is a great looking car. the scoops and the exhaust from the 05-06 is much more likeable. the optional 18's makes it a much more swallowable car. the 04's are the ugliest thing with those wheel and single exaust. if i had 32k to spend, i wouldn't flinch on getting a black 06 m6. not to argue which is a better car. i believe the gto is a better built car, but to each is his own.

I'm a very big GTO fan, but there's no denying that the cover charge to get into a GTO is $6,000 more than to get into Mustang GT.
Sure, the starting MSRP's show a big disparity. But comparing those two configurations makes the comparison even more ridiculous. Seriously, who would cross-shop between a (relatively) loaded 400HP GTO, and a base, cloth-seat and much weaker Mustang GT? When you add in the eqpt to bring the Mustang up to the level of the GTO, and you compare REAL street prices, the point is there is NOT a $6k difference as you were claiming. Simply not true.

Sure, the starting MSRP's show a big disparity. But comparing those two configurations makes the comparison even more ridiculous. Seriously, who would cross-shop between a (relatively) loaded 400HP GTO, and a base, cloth-seat and much weaker Mustang GT?

Me.

Seems most car mags also do or think others would. The top of this thread says Mustang GT vs GTO, so it seems we aren't in the minority on this.

We are talking 2 similar sized, V8 powered, rear wheel drive, 4 passenger, performance coupes sold by US based makers in 2 volume geared dealerships. Unless you're wired to explode whenever you get near the opposite car, people most certainly do consider both... until one or the other wins out.
MSRP is what people look at. If it isn't in the ballpark, it doesn't matter what the "street price" is, they walk. Even GM admits as much! :lol:

When you add in the eqpt to bring the Mustang up to the level of the GTO, and you compare REAL street prices, the point is there is NOT a $6k difference as you were claiming. Simply not true.

Load up a Mustang to get to GTO's price level? :no:

The idea of Mustang is that it's a cheap set of performance wheels, that you can get what you want, and pass up what you don't, and put the price where you want it.

Again, "Street Prices" are meaningly unless you are in an area that's in the average "street price" zone. I can go to Tolleson Arizona and get a Mustang GT for 2K discount ($23,000). Then I can go to San Diego and pay a $1,000 "market adjustment", with optional rims, the optional grille, optional bumper (all through the Pontiac dealer, and all legitimate options) and end up with a GTO costing $36,000+. Now we have a fair gap of 2 loaded cars of $13,000.

If I have done my reading and studying, and know about the GTO, and have the cash for one, sure I'd buy one. Because I happen to know alot about the car.

But if I'm shopping for a RWD coupe, and I'm going only by price vs equptment and performance, Mustang GT is going to win.

Buying isn't about statistics and data. It's about perception and what you can see. You can see the MSRP and look up the invoice price. That's what people go by, and it's a good yardstick. :)

Load up a Mustang to get to GTO's price level? :no:

Load up a Mustang GT with all options and your still at a 100HP deficit. That's hard to ignore.

When I was comparison shopping the Mustang GT and GTO the GT with the options I was considering somewhat equal to the GTO was $28K and some change. Much less than comparing the base content Mustang GT to a fairly loaded GTO.

Me.
Hooray for you! (But you're in a mighty small club, since those truly on a budget aren't on the market for a luxury-laden ride like the GTO anyway).

Seems most car mags also do or think others would.
Really now? Then maybe you can explain the 1/2005 Car&Drivel issue I'm looking at right now, with a Mustang-GTO comparo on page 47+. In there, they have a Mustang GT with red leather seats and the Shaker 1000 stereo as well as the goofy infinite-color gauges. Pretty much loaded... Pretty much $29k... Pretty much exactly what I paid for my GTO when I walked in and got 'employee-pricing-for-everyone' without haggling, last September. You see, I did cross-shop a loaded Mustang GT against an (already loaded) GTO. Ford dealer: "They're selling at sticker, maybe we can give you a couple hundred off though". My Pontiac dealer: "We have employee pricing for anyone :) " Guess Detroit is not one of your vaunted "average areas" :rolleyes:

OBTW, that C&D article had a few things to say about the comparison:
Bend the GTO into a series of corners that requrie no downshifting, and it's easy to be seduced. Steering is far more communicative than the system in the Mustang; the effort increases as cornering loads increase. Turn the wheel off-center, and the GTO dives into the corner as predictably and voraciously as a goat at an all-you-can-eat tin-can buffet....With 6.0 Liters of power, it won most of the performance tests as well as the fun-to-drive category...

Load up a Mustang to get to GTO's price level?
Only an utter fool would 'load up a car to get to the price level of another car', and that is NOT what I was referring to if you were to read my statement. I SAID, "When you add in the eqpt to bring the Mustang up to the level of the GTO" not "up to the PRICE level of a GTO". Not surprisingly, even after loading up on the EQUIPMENT in the Stang's options suite, it still falls short, even on mundane things like the wimpy-looking 235-series tires.

The idea of Mustang is that it's a cheap set of performance wheels, that you can get what you want, and pass up what you don't, and put the price where you want it.
Hey, that's great! Seriously. Ford's got a real winner here, profitable and hi-volume. Just don't try to compare it directly to the GTO... since it falls short in some key areas (at least for true performance enthusiasts, as opposed to posers).

Buying isn't about statistics and data. It's about perception and what you can see.
Baloney. Buyers today are more well-informed than ever before. Sites like kbb.com, edmunds.com and the like, offer a free wealth of ready comparison data on NATIONAL AVERAGE street prices and other comparitive measures. (For those willing to accept it :) )

Load up a Mustang GT with all options and your still at a 100HP deficit. That's hard to ignore.

When I was comparison shopping the Mustang GT and GTO the GT with the options I was considering somewhat equal to the GTO was $28K and some change. Much less than comparing the base content Mustang GT to a fairly loaded GTO.

AMEN, 100%. THANK you.

The thing is, even if Mustang GT and GTO cost the same (which they wouldn't), I'd still take a Mustang GT over the GTO....even with a 100 hp deficit.

To me, it's just plain more fun.

If fun's all that matters to you, get yourself a Yamaha sport bike. The rest of us mortals will stumble around in our old-tech LS2 V8's :metal:

If fun's all that matters to you, get yourself a Yamaha sport bike. The rest of us mortals will stumble around in our old-tech LS2 V8's :metal:

Are you kidding? Bikes scare me. I just like fun cars. ;)

....with a Mustang GT fully loaded you still only have a 5 speed manual. GTO manual comes with 6.

....with the Mustang GT fully loaded you get the "nat exactly quality" interior. GTO comes with a substantially better interior.

....with the Mustang GT fully loaded you get the good ol solid axle..... GTO IRS

....with the Mustang GT fully loaded you get the same old cramped @ss back seat. With the GTO you get legitimate rear seating area.

Soooo.... yes I'm sure we can all find a few thousand dollars difference between the cars if we try real hard....... in reality they vastly different approaches to the pony/muscle car market. Thus demand a different price point. For the difference in price between the Mustang GT to the GTO meanwhile keeping in consideration the content extras you get with the GTO, they're really very close in the value aspect of the product offerings.

I never spent so much time and effort trying to make a decision between two cars. I did a total of three test drives in a Mustang GT. Even got a $50 American Express gift certificate for one of the drives, thanks Ford! I did one test drive and the GM AutoShow in Motion with the GTO. I really liked the Mustang styling, but after driving the GTO I just could come up with enough in the negative column for it.

It's good to have choices, to each his own.

I think this is a great thread. What would happen if it was GTO v Mustang GT v Solstice, since we are talking "fun to drive"? :)

Well if it's just a matter of fun to drive... here's the ride I want:

http://i5.ebayimg.com/03/i/06/79/c8/20_3.JPG

I used to have a Suzuki 370 dual-sport. No car I've had since can match the pure thrill of a motorcycle going full-out. The closest I've come to that since, has been my GTO :cool:

http://www.carspace.com/bluestreakgto/.59967126

I think this is a great thread. What would happen if it was GTO v Mustang GT v Solstice, since we are talking "fun to drive"? :)

Can I substitute the Solstice for the 400HP LS2 Mallett Solstice? :D :D :D You did say "FUN" to drive. :eek:

If I were into bikes....I think I'd get a Ducati. If for no other reason than the sound.

Guys, a lot of people don't understand the GTO has only about 2 options that cost you money. Transmission (auto gets gas guzzler tax) & 18" Wheels (IIRC They are $245 more) Everthing else is standard.

To just compare MSRP is silly. Find me any Mustang GT sitting on the lot that doesn't have any options, and comes in at MSRP. The GTO will be very close if not right on its MSRP since the dealers can't load them up.

The GTO, IMHO, is worth the difference in price.

Hey, that's great! Seriously. Ford's got a real winner here, profitable and hi-volume. Just don't try to compare it directly to the GTO... since it falls short in some key areas (at least for true performance enthusiasts, as opposed to posers).


It's pretty arrogant to suggest that Mustang buyers are posers and only "true enthusiasts" would choose GTO, especially when that car is pushing 3800lbs. Talk about falling short in a key area...

I'm just glad I can look at things objectively and appreciate both cars, even if I happen to enjoy one of them more than the other.

I'm not a true enthusiast. Nope. Never done an enthusiastic thing with cars in my life - and I'm sure wouldn't do well if I were to compare credentials with the self-described "enthusiast" in this thread. You'd think that with all the things the GTO has going for it, it would have sold more in a year than Mustang sold in an average month. Must be the "more well-informed than ever before" buyers out there making mostly the wrong decisions.

Guess that's why I like Mustangs (and pssst....don't tell anybody, but I really like the LSx engines too).

It's pretty arrogant to suggest that Mustang buyers are posers and only "true enthusiasts" would choose GTO, especially when that car is pushing 3800lbs. Talk about falling short in a key area...

I'm just glad I can look at things objectively and appreciate both cars, even if I happen to enjoy one of them more than the other.

Good post. :)

However, Commodores arch rival here in Oz is over 4000lbs and much more 'rewarding' to drive (seat of pants impression) than Commodore/Monaro, especially in the eyes of the scribes. Only thing is, if you get out your stop watch, the Fords are around 2 secs slower around a 1-mile track.

My point? The 'fun factor' is an individual thing. Be thankful that Mustang and GTO arrive at the same outcome, just go about it in different ways! :D

I'm not a true enthusiast. Nope. Never done an enthusiastic thing with cars in my life - and I'm sure wouldn't do well if I were to compare credentials with the self-described "enthusiast" in this thread. You'd think that with all the things the GTO has going for it, it would have sold more in a year than Mustang sold in an average month. Must be the "more well-informed than ever before" buyers out there making mostly the wrong decisions.

Guess that's why I like Mustangs (and pssst....don't tell anybody, but I really like the LSx engines too).

I agree the "Enthusiast" comment was dumb.

But, you can't compare numbers alone. The GTO wan't meant to sell 175,000+ units, like the Mustang sells. IIRC, the GTO production was double the Monaro production. From what I've picked up from this and other boards, GM couldn't get anymore GTOs from Australia, even if they could sell them.

Jeez, some folks sure got worked up over one word (either 'true' or 'poser', not sure which :p )

If it makes those folks feel better about hailing the mighty Mustang, I will say - there are lots of true enthusiasts buying the new Stang and yep it's a great car. There are some things I don't like about them, but of course the GTO has its foibles too (as have been repeatedly pointed out :rolleyes: ).

However, I don't see it as 'arrogant' to point out that buyers more 'serious' (gee I hope that word is ok with the Ford fans reading here) about getting down the track quicker... are buying 400 HP GTO's.

...GTO, especially when that car is pushing 3800lbs
Incorrect. According to kbb.com ( http://www.kbb.com/kb/ki.dll/kw.kc.sbmn?gmsp;;MA017;&02474&&06POGT_G;Pontiac ) the GTO is 3725 lb and the Mustang GT is 3488, not exactly a lightweight itself (guess it's 'pushing 3500 lb' itself...)

And just so BobC will have some 'internet racer' stuff to complain about, here's the SCCA testing where the 05 GTO beat an 05 Mustang GT in 0-60, 1/4 mile (by nearly .4s!), slalom and road course... http://www.pontiac.com/gto/contextualpages/perform_chartnext.jsp

(The Car&Drivel article I referenced above already showed the GTO brakes better from 70-0... gee what else is there?)

(Tell me again... which car should we expect to be more fun to drive???)

The Mustang drag racing crowd is far, far more serious than the GTO drag racing crowd. Not even sort of comparable, but nice try.

Tell me....what organization do you race with? What's your best ET?

Bob

The Mustang drag racing crowd is far, far more serious than the GTO drag racing crowd. Not even sort of comparable, but nice try.

Tell me....what organization do you race with? What's your best ET?
Leave it to you Bob, to feel the need to resort to personal challenges. No, I haven't the extensive track history you do, and I'm sure you can pee farther too :rolleyes:

Obviously - there are MORE Mustang racers, since there are more Mustangs. I was speaking of stock for stock. What exactly are you trying to prove? :confused:

BTW, do YOU own a 2005 Mustang GT? What, you don't?

I kind of thought you had me on ignore....oh well.

Leave it to you Bob, to feel the need to resort to personal challenges.
There was no personal challenge there at all - I don't currently own either a Mustang or any other performance car. It was simply a response to your ridiculas claim.

No, I haven't the extensive track history you do, and I'm sure you can pee farther too :rolleyes:
Probably, but that's not an issue here. Still, I think it was a valid question. You said, and I quote, "buyers more 'serious' about getting down the track quicker" are buying new GTOs. You have a new GTO, thus you must be serious about getting down the track. So I'll ask again, how quick have you gone?

Obviously - there are MORE Mustang racers, since there are more Mustangs.
Obviously - though that isn't the point I was making.

I was speaking of stock for stock.
No you weren't. You were attempting to say that "serious enthusiasts" buy the GTO vice the Mustang because of its superior 1/4 mile performance. I don't disagree at all that stock for stock it will quite handly beat a Mustang GT - but your other assertions are quite inaccurate.

What exactly are you trying to prove? :confused:
That you're wrong, mainly because you are a brand-blind GM nutswinger, IMHO.

BTW, do YOU own a 2005 Mustang GT? What, you don't?
See above, I do not. Do you?

Speaking of BTW.........BTW...remember that extra 100 HP you were crowing about above? Why is it that the 400 HP GTO only outruns the 300 HP GT by .4 seconds in the 1/4 mile, using the numbers you researched? The weight difference make up for all of that?

Hmmm....can't be the IRS, IRS is a good thing. Can't be the extra OD gear, an extra OD gear is a good thing. Can't be the outstanding interior, that's a good thing. Oh well - guess we'll never know. Maybe its the wider tires? You know...wider than the "wimpy" (your word) 235s that you were harping about on the Mustang. Yes yes...those massive 245s or....perish the thought....235s (as an optional 'upgrade'). Damn.

Guess I better brush up on my magazine racing skills.

As for which car is more fun to drive....I think Charlie said it pretty well. Perhaps he's a closet Mustang apologist. Whadda ya think?

Bob

PS....for everyone but BD&D, I have nothing at all against the GTO, but please don't tell.

PM or e-mail. Pick one and use that to piss at each other, not here.

Thank you all!

Charlie,
Why do you wait until I am in Bum#u#k China (LITERALLY) to post a thread like this?!?!

It is 3:30pm here Sunday afternoon, I just had lunch, the offices are empty, so I hacked onto a computer for some web time, and I see this thread. Can't call home (it's 3:30 am Sunday morning - wife will NOT want to talk!!!)

Well, you have started quite the conversation, and I applaud all - both sides - for the honest commentaries.

For me, the fun-factor is everything. I have faster cars than my '89 LX5.0. I have more refined cars. I have newer cars, and older cars. But amazingly, I find myself just constantly getting into it to go to work or run around. Guys at work ask me why I don't drive my ________ (fill in blank) instead of that old car. My immediate response is a smile, followed with an "I dunno - I just like driving this one - it's fun." That's why it has 229,000 miles on it, and I am still having a hard time deciding to take it off the road and give it a restoration and retirement.

As for the 2005 models - riden/driven several now, and still have the same take I had almost 18 months ago... love it. Waiting my turn on "the list" for a shot at a Shelby, so not going to put $ on a plain GT yet.

One last thing... Charlie, I'd like to revisit a thread from a year ago - link is attached here (http://web.camaross.com/forums/showthread.php?t=358729&page=4).
Somebody- who shall remain nameless!!! - wrote about their test drive in a new V6 Mustang...
"As for the chassis, it sure feels an awful lot like my 3rd gen (SURPRISE!)....as does the driving position. It feels more structurally rigid than my IROC though. But if I didn't know about cars, and someone told me this was a rebodied '82 Camaro....I'd believe it....that's how similar the driving experience is. And before anyone asks me -YES - there is no doubt that you can feel that live rear axle under your butt. It's a well controlled live rear axle ...but you know it's there. If you're craving more sophisticated chassis dynamics, you probably won't find your fix in a V6 Mustang."

I was late in replying, but in post #53 of that thread, I wrote... "I don't see your posts as bashing the car at all, just stating what you felt/saw/heard. I just think you cheated yourself out of a much better drive in a 5spd GT! "

It would appear that you finally got that test drive in a 5spd GT... the kind of test drive I got back in late 2004. :thumb:

Put me down for stating that I think the GTO is the more refined and upscale performance car that is going to appeal to a more refined clientelle, whereas the Mustang GT is going to have a much broader appeal simply because it offers so many more variations of itself, with flexibility of options, and numerous trim levels. For a daily driver - please note this again... DAILY DRIVER, I PERSONALLY prefer something that drinks 87 octane and doesn't stumble and stagger, has easy ingress/egress, easy to park, easy to see out of, and is FUN to drive. I don't need 400hp to fight gridlock on I-40, and the 6th gear does nothing for me at 35mph. :no: Now if I can get onto a back road and toss it through some 35mph-rated curves at 50-55mph, or do a little goosing it now and then to smack around a rice-burner from time to time, that makes things even better (and more fun too!!) These are exactly the reason my '89 will be the first car I get into when I get back home, and this is the essence of the thread as I read it from Charlie's first post.

You dog Proud. Believe it or not, I thought about those comments that you made to me back then, as I was starting this thread. :lol: But you were right!

I've been driving alot of cars lately - GTO, Impala SS, TB SS, MC SS, GP GXP - all of them have their good ponts, but the 5 speed manual Mustang GT, is the most fun to drive out of all of them (according to me ;) ).

Anyway, I gotta go. I might buy a GTO today. A 1964 GTO. Geeze, I know I'm gonna regret this...........

Let us know how that one goes :D

Personally, I drove our silver GXP again yesterday...that car is evil. Sunroof open, windows down, temps in the upper 60s for the first time this year, some AC DC bellowing from the Monsoon, and the best road I know of is only 3 miles from the dealership :D Like I said in another thread...it looks right, it goes right, it stops right, it handles right, it SOUNDS right, and it has every little option I'd want, and nothing more.

I want that car :(

What in the world are you waiting for? I drove a GXP... very nice.

I don't need 400hp to fight gridlock on I-40, and the 6th gear does nothing for me at 35mph.

Ah common, I bought mine just for that reason ;)

Well that and it gives me something fun to drive while the Camaro get quite a big more scary. whooosh.

Let us know how that one goes :D



Welp...

A friend of mine has a '64 Goat. Rough around the edges, rust, bondo, mechanical issues. It's a Powerglide with tri-power, but the tri-power is not factory installed, and runs like crap - in fact, more than 1/4 throttle kills the engine.

Just the car for me!...huh?

Anyway, I spoke to my friend acouple of weeks ago about buying it and he told me his price. I sort of let it drag on and never got back to him, but last night ran into him at a party. He'd just put it on ebay (starting today), but we'd go this morning to pick it up at our discussed price.

By the time we got there and got it started, my friend had gotten 27 (yes, 27) calls on it. It seemed obvious to me that he might have the potential to make more money for it than what I personally would be willing to pay. So eventhough he was willing to sell it to me for what we had discussed, I told him to try to get his best price - and if no one shows with the cash in a predetermined span of time, I'll buy it for what we had agreed on.

So, I may have a sorta gimpy Goat in need of TLC soon.....or not.:)

I drove my friends 05 Mustang GT. I found it underpowered compared to my 04 GTO, maybe because his was an automatic. Plus the interior was aweful and uncomfortable. The GTO's cockpit surrounds you and you feel like part of the car. Sitting inside the Mustang the car felt big to me, bigger than my GTO . Maybe because of the long hood compared to the GTO.

The GTO was more fun to drive and faster.

It's pretty arrogant to suggest that Mustang buyers are posers

also forgot metrosexual pink lace panty wearing also. GTO owners sound suprisingly like BMW owners. Must be the whole 3 letter thing??

I drove my friends 05 Mustang GT. I found it underpowered compared to my 04 GTO, maybe because his was an automatic. Plus the interior was aweful and uncomfortable. The GTO's cockpit surrounds you and you feel like part of the car. Sitting inside the Mustang the car felt big to me, bigger than my GTO . Maybe because of the long hood compared to the GTO.

The GTO was more fun to drive and faster.

The same underpowered feeling was apparent on the multiple 5spd's I drove as well. Overall it moves quite well. Doing a direct comparison to available low rpm torque makes the GTO feel fast. Feeling can be deceptive but sure is nice to the senses.

I didn't really get the Mustang interior felt larger, maybe it was the higher belt line or the extremely tight back seats.

You know it occured to me at work today that an interesting comparison would be

GT/GT500 vs GTO on three tracks; Track A: Nice smooth course which wouldn't hamper SRA, Track B: SRA at a distinct disadvantage, Track C: A mix of both A & B.

IMO The goat's biggest advantage is 400 ft/lbs. of torque vs. the GT's 320 ft/lbs. of torque.

Now why GT500 vs GTO. Well if the GTO's plateform is superior to the Mustang's then the GT500 being hobbled by a live rear axle, mac struts and a cast iron block using a heavy super-charger way up high even with 450 to 500 ft/lbs of torque shouldn't be able to compete with the GTO's superior dynamics.

and well if the GT500 should outpace the GTO by the same margin that the GTO outpaces the GT, then so much for "IRS is GAWD"

and well if the GT500 should outpace the GTO by the same margin that the GTO outpaces the GT, then so much for "IRS is GAWD"

If the goal here is live axle vs IRS, this may not be the fairest comparison.

Mustang has a very sophisticated live axle. GTO has a pretty outdated IRS.

Well I get the any "IRS is clearly better" crammed down my throat so much I'd like to see a comparison such as this, you have mustang guys that'd take the previous generation cobra IRS over the current mustang SRA (despite admitting that it was a compromised system due to packaging constraints) just to have IRS.

IMO the whole IRS thing is overblown. Is it better? Yes, but not to the extent people make it out to be(the proof of which can be measured by the use of the buzz phrase "real world") The general concensus seems to be that the rear suspension is the driving force for the whole dynamic of the car (or so it would seem) to which I must call :bs: and the reason I'd like to see a comparison like the one I mentioned above.

I think that many will be surprised by how well the GT500 will handle, even with all that weight............. and that "ancient" stick axle.

As the GTO only holds a small advantage, in numbers, over the Mustang GT............. I think you will find that the GT500 will have a very large advantage over the GTO. It will handle much better than the GT, and will definitally have NO low end torque disadvantage. If anything, there will be way too much (much in the way that the Z06 engine overpowers the suspension).

I drove my friends 05 Mustang GT. I found it underpowered compared to my 04 GTO, maybe because his was an automatic. Plus the interior was aweful and uncomfortable. The GTO's cockpit surrounds you and you feel like part of the car. Sitting inside the Mustang the car felt big to me, bigger than my GTO . Maybe because of the long hood compared to the GTO.

The GTO was more fun to drive and faster.\

I agree, and the only thing that I like out of the Mustangs interior is the steering wheel. Its about time that auto makers finally found a way to package air bags into stylish steering wheels.

I think that many will be surprised by how well the GT500 will handle, even with all that weight............. and that "ancient" stick axle.

As the GTO only holds a small advantage, in numbers, over the Mustang GT............. I think you will find that the GT500 will have a very large advantage over the GTO. It will handle much better than the GT, and will definitally have NO low end torque disadvantage. If anything, there will be way too much (much in the way that the Z06 engine overpowers the suspension).
No doubt... and the GT500 will be a success. The only thing missing now from the modern Mustang 'stable' is something in between the GT and the GT500. The GT500 is going to be out of reach for the typical GTO buyer.

Here's the thing: I like both cars, I think the Mustang is what a Mustang should be: a pony car. The GTO is what a GTO should be: a Musclecar. I'm old enough to still make that distinction. While I have yet to drive a new Mustang, I can't imagine that it would be more fun than my GTO. I'm a huge fan of torque- alot of it and right away off idle. I don't see the GT giving me that. A better comparo might be my 1LE Firehawk vs. my GTO,so much better in fact that I could never choose a winner. The two cars feel so different and yet the fun factor of each is huge. The GTO is the easier one to live with day to day but the Firehawk has the visceral thing down. This is the same sort of difference I imagine the Mustang presents when compared to the GTO. I just think the cars are in different classes.

Camino, I get what you are saying on the muscle car, vs the pony car thing. However, don't you think that you are being a bit premature in your opinion of the Mustang???

After all, you yourself have stated that you have never driven one. How can you base an opinion on the driving pleasure of a car you have never driven???

I have never driven the GTO. I would not ever......... even pretend to know how the car drives........... to me. The only thing I have, is magazine articles, and owner experience. In the real world, this really means nothing........ to me (as in, none of it is based on my own personal experience...... which is really the only one that matters....... to me).

Camino, I get what you are saying on the muscle car, vs the pony car thing. However, don't you think that you are being a bit premature in your opinion of the Mustang???


Not having a go at you but... it always amuses me to read comments on persons who ask others to drive another brand's vehicle(s) before passing judgement on certain vehicles... when said person(s) also fail to drive other brand's vehicles and have no idea of what makes that vehicle so special to the person who is proud of his/her purchase.

PS I'm not sure my comment above makes complete sense! :p :confused: :cry: But if the person who bought the GTO was hooked based on the test drive, can you blame that person for buying the GTO? :D

Not having a go at you but... it always amuses me to read comments on persons who ask others to drive another brand's vehicle(s) before passing judgement on certain vehicles... when said person(s) also fail to drive other brand's vehicles and have no idea of what makes that vehicle so special to the person who is proud of his/her purchase.

PS I'm not sure my comment above makes complete sense! But if the person who bought the GTO was hooked based on the test drive, can you blame that person for buying the GTO?
Amen to that. Plus I think it's quite fair to compare cars base on specs, at least to get yourself in the ballpark as to what you might want to try out. With the GTO, I suspected it would knock my socks off if I drove it (due to the specs) and I was right :)

What in the world are you waiting for? I drove a GXP... very nice.

The fact that with no money down, it will cost me over $500 a month, for one thing! Big $$$ for a Grand Prix, in my opinion. Awesome car nonetheless...

But oh wait, I'm a traitor now and will be a DCX employee in 2 weeks :D Guess the Pontiac purchase won't happen... :( I firmly believe you have to drive what you sell. I won't be buying a Chrysler product, but I'll have one as a demo...and I'm selling my current Grand Prix.

The fact that with no money down, it will cost me over $500 a month
Most people don't buy that way. It seems like a lot because you don't have anything to put down up front. Not many folks are out buying a 303 HP sport sedan as their very first car :rolleyes:

Charlie,
For me, the fun-factor is everything. I have faster cars than my '89 LX5.0. I have more refined cars. I have newer cars, and older cars. But amazingly, I find myself just constantly getting into it to go to work or run around. Guys at work ask me why I don't drive my ________ (fill in blank) instead of that old car. My immediate response is a smile, followed with an "I dunno - I just like driving this one - it's fun." That's why it has 229,000 miles on it, and I am still having a hard time deciding to take it off the road and give it a restoration and retirement....

...Put me down for stating that I think the GTO is the more refined and upscale performance car that is going to appeal to a more refined clientelle, whereas the Mustang GT is going to have a much broader appeal simply because it offers so many more variations of itself, with flexibility of options, and numerous trim levels. For a daily driver - please note this again... DAILY DRIVER, I PERSONALLY prefer something that drinks 87 octane and doesn't stumble and stagger, has easy ingress/egress, easy to park, easy to see out of, and is FUN to drive. I don't need 400hp to fight gridlock on I-40, and the 6th gear does nothing for me at 35mph. :no: Now if I can get onto a back road and toss it through some 35mph-rated curves at 50-55mph, or do a little goosing it now and then to smack around a rice-burner from time to time, that makes things even better (and more fun too!!) These are exactly the reason my '89 will be the first car I get into when I get back home, and this is the essence of the thread as I read it from Charlie's first post.

Nailed better than I could ever do! :D :bow: :bow:

You hit the bullseye on the 5.0. over the 4th gen Camaro. Hit on the head what makes a daily driver fun, and put the GTO and Mustang into perspective.

GTO is REFINED & fast. Mustang GT is FUN and quick. For the price, Mustang GT is the best deal on earth in it's price range. If you spend $6,000 more, you get a car that oozes more quality that happens to be quicker. You're going to see new Mustangs on the drag strip. You aren't going to see too many GTOs (even discounting for sales numbers).

If you want an budget BMW GTO is the only game in town (and it's certainly on my list). It's faster, quicker, and better made than the Mustang, and will be riding around tight, rattle and squeak-free long after the Mustang (and any other US made car) develops them. But it sells at a price premium over the GT.



Well I get the any "IRS is clearly better" crammed down my throat so much I'd like to see a comparison such as this, you have mustang guys that'd take the previous generation cobra IRS over the current mustang SRA (despite admitting that it was a compromised system due to packaging constraints) just to have IRS.

IMO the whole IRS thing is overblown. Is it better? Yes, but not to the extent people make it out to be(the proof of which can be measured by the use of the buzz phrase "real world") The general concensus seems to be that the rear suspension is the driving force for the whole dynamic of the car (or so it would seem) to which I must call :bs: and the reason I'd like to see a comparison like the one I mentioned above.

The only time I notice any difference with my Thunderbird's IRS over my Camaro's live axle is on sharp REALLY rough or bumpy sharp curves. The 'Bird easily has the same roadholding, the Camaro rides marginally rougher, and in day to day driving on 99.9% of the roads I drive on, IRS' behavior is un noticable. But again, the Camaro suspension is stock, and I'm running 245s all around the "Bird.

Camino, I get what you are saying on the muscle car, vs the pony car thing. However, don't you think that you are being a bit premature in your opinion of the Mustang???

After all, you yourself have stated that you have never driven one. How can you base an opinion on the driving pleasure of a car you have never driven???

I have never driven the GTO. I would not ever......... even pretend to know how the car drives........... to me. The only thing I have, is magazine articles, and owner experience. In the real world, this really means nothing........ to me (as in, none of it is based on my own personal experience...... which is really the only one that matters....... to me).

I'm basing this on the seemingly consistent reports that the GT is down in the torque department and not so quick off the line. That, and my extreme love of those qualities. Don't get me wrong, as I said, I like the Mustang and would like to take one for a ride. But, I really love my GTO and just can't imagine the Mustang making me any happier.

GTO is REFINED & fast. Mustang GT is FUN and quick. For the price, Mustang GT is the best deal on earth in it's price range. If you spend $6,000 more, you get a car that oozes more quality that happens to be quicker.

And so the $6k price-difference-myth continues... :o