Who likes/wants a retro themed interior?

I think we really need to communicate to Chevrolet our feelings on the concept's interior. It doesn't seem like anybody is for a retro-themed interior, especially retro guages/guage pod. So, just to get some highly unscientific numbers, who likes or doesn't mind the retro interior like we have seen/will see on the concept, and who demands a new, modern interior?

I think they should look to the vette for help.

The vette's interior is not a space ship departure fromt he previous model, but fit/finish and design is all very well on par.

That rendering in the R&T vid is ok. I think they can do better (and maybe they did), and will reserve judgement until I see the real deal.

As long as the seats are comfortable, I can see the gauges, and see out of the windows ok, then I will buy one.

Interior guages and layout need to be modern. It's not rocket science, just copy any of the cool guages and layouts out there right now that use the white background and upscale looking chrome rings around the guages.

Interior guages and layout need to be modern. It's not rocket science, just copy any of the cool guages and layouts out there right now that use the white background and upscale looking chrome rings around the guages.

That's kind of how I feel. It seems like Ford and now Chevy are trying to re-invent the 1960's wheel when it comes to guage clusters in their pony cars. Don't use gimmics, just give me something large, well laid-out and easy to read at a quick glace.

The Seats need to be awesome......and I voted no on the retro interior.

I dont want to feel like I'm driving an old car, I want modern cutting edge stuff inside. MP3 Capability,adjustable colors on guages, optional HUD,NAV.....

I don't mind the interior but please don't put gauges down on the center console, put them up on the dash so we can read them quickly and don't have to take our eyes off of the road.

I voted in favour of a modern interior but if it could be done as tastefully as the Challenger's interior, I say why not go retro-modern.

More modern, there's a lot of '69's out there if I wanted one, I'd get an original.

I want a thouroughly modern interior with not one ounce of retro cues . Be orginal , be innovative , be inviting . Dont let it be retro or a dark coal chamber , im so sick of seeing an all blacked out interior . Use some color to brighten things up , but be VERY tasteful about it . I love how the Cobalt had color keyed inserts for the seats and contrasting silver stiching for the ebony leather seats and steering wheel .

And will you guys PLEASE ditch the incandescent lighting for the dash . LED white looks sooooooooo much better than the white chevy currently tries to convey with incandescent bulbs .

I have to say that if the production interior looks like the pictures then I would have to call it one of THE WORST interior designs I have ever seen in a modern production vehicle, and I am being serious. I doubt they will change it at all. Full retro is what they want and that is what we will get.

The retro IP must go. We need a modern interior.

The retro IP must go. We need a modern interior.

Agreed. And no gimmicky crap, either -- a good drivers' IP with a full complement of easy-to-read black gauges with white markings.

If they manage the weight well this thing will be fantastic on road courses -- give us instruments that live up to that, not retro ergonomics designed just for nostalgic baby boomers.

I voted for demanding a newer interior, but I'm not sure demand is the right choice. I would prefer a modern instrument cluster at least, but it's not a deal breaker for buying the car. I hope they change it but I'm not "demanding" it...

The interior/gauge cluster is the one area I'm going to agree with the "NO RETRO" guys on, old and nostalgic there just doesn't get it done somehow, I want sweet backlighted gauges (the reverse indiglo-ish looking things with adjustable colors like the new Stangs would be great IMO), and a good layout. Honestly the somewhat "wraparound" cockpit style drivers setup is what I want, the more wraparound and the more untraditional (compared to "regular" cars, with flat normal dash layouts) the better to me. My 94 has a pretty sweet layout there, I definitely love the wraparound dash vibe it has going. On the new one some gauges down on the console in front of the shifter like the concept drawing seems to indicate are OK (and actually a cool addition) but I want most of my important gauges up in the cluster where they belong...

I also don't think I like the square bezel things around the speedo/tach, but I'll reserve some judgement there since it's a drawing.

Is it just me, or does the video only show drawings of the interior?

NO! To a retro interior. Look how blocky and crude the interior on the Chellenger concept is. The Mustang interior is a little betterbut it's spartan and just not very exciting or inviting to look at or sit in.

So long as the shifter stays on the floor where it's supposed to be, then I say GM can go full steam ahead and give us something desrving of the cars outer "personalilty" (which is anything but retro!). BUT - GM please don't go down the BMW-esque iDrive route where dials and twist knobs and thumb balls replace a well designed minima,l but functional set of switches and buttons.

I could live with a retro exterior, but everything else would need to be thoroughly modern!

i really dont like/hate retro interiors. especially split guage clusters. they just look dated and nasty to me

A Modern interior is a defiant selling point for me….

I hate hate hate the Mustangs Retro inspired interior!

I hate hate hate recessed gauges!

Give us something very similar to the C6 modern look.

I want to feel like I’m climbing into an F-22 Raptor when I get into my 2009 Camaro not a 1960s muscle car…..

I will have to agree with the most of you it is the split gauge that I dislike the most. Please GM give us supportive seats that can go to the track or long trip: something like the corvette and GTO.

I want it to look like an 89 Vette inside - Atari dash and wickedly bolstered articulating leather seats. Any takers for my brand of retro? :)

I voted for demanding a newer interior, but I'm not sure demand is the right choice. I would prefer a modern instrument cluster at least, but it's not a deal breaker for buying the car. I hope they change it but I'm not "demanding" it...

The interior/gauge cluster is the one area I'm going to agree with the "NO RETRO" guys on, old and nostalgic there just doesn't get it done somehow, I want sweet backlighted gauges (the reverse indiglo-ish looking things with adjustable colors like the new Stangs would be great IMO), and a good layout. Honestly the somewhat "wraparound" cockpit style drivers setup is what I want, the more wraparound and the more untraditional (compared to "regular" cars, with flat normal dash layouts) the better to me. My 94 has a pretty sweet layout there, I definitely love the wraparound dash vibe it has going. On the new one some gauges down on the console in front of the shifter like the concept drawing seems to indicate are OK (and actually a cool addition) but I want most of my important gauges up in the cluster where they belong...

I also don't think I like the square bezel things around the speedo/tach, but I'll reserve some judgement there since it's a drawing.

I have to agree. Although the Retro IP will not keep me from buying. I would like to see a more modren layout.

I voted for a modern interior. I love the interior of my 04 GTO, so something along those lines would be great!

No retro on the interior.....the piss-poor seating and auxiliary gauge location are the two things I dislike the most about the 1st Gens....(and drum brakes!).

Why bring back BAD design?

The interior really needs to be modern!

I think it would be an awesome balance. The concept is heavily first gen, but a sexy modern interior would really change the "aura" of the car. If they make that concept interior... the car will be deemed retro. However a Corvette inspired interior would really change how people perceive the entire car...

The concept interior is a HUGE turnoff for me. I can't stress that enough.

agreed with all y'all.. while i dont mind and may even like a retro exterior.. the interior should not have any hint of retro in the production car.. we still havent really seen this car's interior, but from the sketches it's hideous..

This bumb is to make sure the guys from GM read this.....NO RETRO INTERIOR!!!!!!

PLEEEASE!

I agree about making theinterior C6 like. Or even like the new Impala SS, that interior is very nice.

I'll be the minority.. but from the drawings of the interior.. I kinda actually like it.. The gauge cluster needs to be different, but... it looks good so far. The door panels with color look sweet, match that to some color in the seats like on the GTO perhaps. Give us a 200mph speedo :) 9 grand tach, all the appropriate gauges within eye sight as well. It was cool on the 69 to have the gauges on the console.. but its not exactly the safest to have to look down. The steering wheel would never work in the pictures... but it looks cool to me. The console... would be awesome though. So to me... I guess it would be a mix of retro and modern. I just wouldn't want to hop in my 09 Camaro and feel like im driving my 69 Camaro. It had its day and it was a great design.. but we need something different too!

I want to feel like I’m climbing into an F-22 Raptor when I get into my 2009 Camaro not a 1960s muscle car…..

:yes:

I don't mind the interior, I just want the car to come out already.

Interior guages and layout need to be modern. It's not rocket science, just copy any of the cool guages and layouts out there right now that use the white background and upscale looking chrome rings around the guages.

Please, no white background guages.

I can't express strongly enough how ugly(and cheap looking) I find them.

I really like the instrument cluster layout in the GTO. I also like the color scheme of the cluster in the Acura TL with the Bright Blue and White Lights on a Black gauge. If the Camaro could utilize some of those cues in it's own unique way that would be fantastic. The rest of the interior is fine with me.

To me not much about the interior is retro, other than the instrument panel and the console gauges.
The seats are absolutely fantastic, and the design of the door panels and dash is very nice.
I would like a more useful instrument panel though, which I expect on the production car anyway.

I love the GTO interior, IMO the camaro interior should be similar.

Please don't let the car come to market with the gauges on the console. Retro without function! Let's avert our eyes to the floor while driving.

Please don't let the car come to market with the gauges on the console. Retro without function! Let's avert our eyes to the floor while driving.

Aren't they guages that the average driver rarely looks at though?

I know the only guages I ever look at regularly are the speedometer, gas guage and the engine temperature (and that's mostly to know when the heater is gonna start putting out heat).

That said, I really don't care if they don't have them there. I'd prefer that area be storage or something anyway. I tend to throw change into that area of the center console myself.

I actually like the interior, more than the exterior.

Please don't let the car come to market with the gauges on the console. Retro without function! Let's avert our eyes to the floor while driving.

If they aren't going to function, then I would hope they wouldn't be there at all. I would rather have a cubby hole to throw some loose change or a CD into then. Personally though, I love the idea, it just adds to the retro theme. I don't see it as too much of a distraction to drivers, afterall, most people have a cell phone glued to their ear, that is a bigger distration IMO.

It will be retro themed with modern colors/materials/technology. The interior will be Metro.

I want it to look like an 89 Vette inside - Atari dash and wickedly bolstered articulating leather seats. Any takers for my brand of retro? :)

I voted I didn't mind it. I have some reservations about the dash myself, but also I'm not demanding. I would actually love a more cockpit type dash, like the 4th gens have, I really love how it feels to sit in a car with this kind of interior. It's one of the things I love about driving a car like this. It is also what I loved about the 2nd gen interiors, and I wouldn't be opposed in the least to GM taking this route on the 5th gen! Though this IS still retro, it can be given a more modern look, just like was done on the outside. If it's too late, it sounds like it'd make a perfect redesign for the next MY IMHO. Please GM NO atari/star-trek dash, which is kinda what my truck dash looks like too, at least until I get the later model dash swap done! I DO NOT dig the C4 dash, it looks so dated nowadays same with my truck, though oddly they both looked good when new IMO.

1g1yy12s425109091

The more i look at the interior i think it is ok, except for polished aluminum, which is way too big, and those gauges on the console. put them in front of the driver where they belong. i look at all my gauges all the time.

I think the dash could use some help from the C6 and still be retro inspired. I like the white center console gauges, the seats, and the fabric design in the doors.

I love the interior even the console gauges make me feel like im driving a muscle car and about the console gauges its a sports car not a luxury car if thats what u are looking for buy a caddy, and for the aluminum probaly wont make production bob lutz even said so.:)

The IP is horrible (to me), looks fake and dated, if it stays, I'll be making a custom panel with aftermarket gages...

You know what would be great??
If we could have a customizable, virtual dashboard, or at least a few optional "virtual" dashboards to choose from.
And maybe a virtual HUD..
Like this: w/o the window ofcourse..


http://www.palmerperformance.com/screenshots/new/pcmscan_gauges_small.png

Only, be able to move things around to our liking...lcd display.
How much $$ ?

I don't mind the gauges soo much, but that steering wheel HAS to go! (IMO)

THe retro gauges are OK, but needs to be not so........obviously retro.. I dunno, the only way I can explain it.

That's it...obviously retro.
A speedo that does nearly 360* of movement looks ancient...and I wish they'd change it.

Personally, my favorite gauge layout ever was in the later third gen Firebirds/Trans Ams. 4 easy to read round face gauges.

You know what would be great??
If we could have a customizable, virtual dashboard, or at least a few optional "virtual" dashboards to choose from.
And maybe a virtual HUD..
Like this: w/o the window ofcourse..


http://www.palmerperformance.com/screenshots/new/pcmscan_gauges_small.png

Only, be able to move things around to our liking...lcd display.
How much $$ ?

A LOT. And that would be VERY stupid as well.. Having all your gauges go out all at once due to some problem would be highly retarded. I think there is a car that does this out there.. but it's an exotic car. If you went cheap as well, i'd imagine there might be display lag.. hit the gas, and see the needle move up a bit late would be crappy.

for a muscle car anyways.. old-fashioned needle gauges are a must. If it were a luxury car.. okay, maybe the LCD idea would be cool

Modern... I prefer the cockpit feel..... I will be very dissappointed with the interior, if the concept matches the production model.

Modern... I prefer the cockpit feel..... I will be very dissappointed with the interior, if the concept matches the production model.

I was talking to a friend of mine who works at GM the other day. He got to sit in on a design meeting for the interior (primarily instrument cluster design). I can tell you that those of us that are not crazy about the Concept's interior have nothing to worry about.. ;) :thumb:

He wasn't able to give me many details, but he assured me that the interior will not be the same as the interior int he current concept.

i hope not i love the interior especially the console and console guages and door panels and the seats i think they should stay and the dash with the stripe across it and the steering wheel about everything else could be changed

Another vote for cockpit feel, wrap around console with two large dials, speedo and tach. I think what would be cool is if you took the 4 rectangular guages and took them like they are in the front of the shifter, but placed them in between the two circular guages, reduced of course so it would fit in the IP.

Another vote for cockpit feel, wrap around console with two large dials, speedo and tach. I think what would be cool is if you took the 4 rectangular guages and took them like they are in the front of the shifter, but placed them in between the two circular guages, reduced of course so it would fit in the IP.


You mean like this Camaro that has a "dash that wraps around you like a jet cockpit"?? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWspEgdrUdM)


Lol... you have to love old commercials....

That's kind of how I feel. It seems like Ford and now Chevy are trying to re-invent the 1960's wheel when it comes to guage clusters in their pony cars. Don't use gimmics, just give me something large, well laid-out and easy to read at a quick glace.

More of a modern interpretation would be acceptable within the gauge clusters. I not a fan of the sideway numbers on the speedometer. Keep
them horizontal please.!

You mean like this Camaro that has a "dash that wraps around you like a jet cockpit"?? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWspEgdrUdM)


Lol... you have to love old commercials....


I love my "dash that wraps around me" in my 72....and I loved my 87's interior as well.

The one I posted above is obviously an example of the tech, not the layout..
I'd love to see some of the technology from todays stereo faces(for example) turn into an interactive IP...capable of changing color for tastes, move gage locations around for preferences etc...
Basically a personalizable lcd/optic IP..(if thats a word)
Maybe, that's a few years too soon?? but we are talking about 2009...

CHANGE IT! and while GM changes the interior they should change some design engineers! GM has been sucking in the design dept. for years.
So, if this is to be the 21st century Camaro lets have a 21st century interior!

At first I thought the concept's interior looked awful. But now I'm thinking, I don't want GM to alter anything. I want what I saw in the concept. The car looks unique - both exterior and interior.

As long as all the mod cons are there on the premium models, it should be enough to satisfy most peoples' tastes. Me? All I want is a nice interior that is ergonomically efficient and aesthetics that are not only pleasing to the eye, but functional.

At first I thought the concept's interior looked awful. But now I'm thinking, I don't want GM to alter anything. I want what I saw in the concept. The car looks unique - both exterior and interior.

As long as all the mod cons are there on the premium models, it should be enough to satisfy most peoples' tastes. Me? All I want is a nice interior that is ergonomically efficient and aesthetics that are not only pleasing to the eye, but functional.

couldnt agree with you more dude, i saw that interior and melted, i think it's genious how they got just the tach and speedo in front of you, and the gas and temps in front of the shifter
it's looking more and more like the 1st gens i must say

As long as I can have GPS and paddle shifters in an interior that looks similar to the convertible concept's I'll be as happy as can be...

I was talking to a friend of mine who works at GM the other day. He got to sit in on a design meeting for the interior (primarily instrument cluster design). I can tell you that those of us that are not crazy about the Concept's interior have nothing to worry about.. ;) :thumb:

He wasn't able to give me many details, but he assured me that the interior will not be the same as the interior int he current concept.This is the best post I've read in a while.

I woas looking a the interior photos of the concept. I wasn't impressed. Ther looked gimicky and lacked detail which would make them hard to read. I would be very disappointed if that was the production interior.

We want a modern engine and a modern suspension. I'm sure everyone wants a modern interior. Give me good ergonomics, and analog guages anyday.

I don't mean this to offend you, but if you haven't seen the interior in person, then you shouldn't be forming an opinion about it. It's a lot better looking than you think, and with those two guages staring you in the face, it really looks nice.

I don't mean this to offend you, but if you haven't seen the interior in person, then you shouldn't be forming an opinion about it. It's a lot better looking than you think, and with those two guages staring you in the face, it really looks nice.If you are talking to me...:mad:

.......point taken. I would hope that a production prototype will be out soon so we can all get a look at it. So far as I've heard delivery is still set for early 2009 calender year (feb.). This is still a long ways off. Hopefully a model will be presented at the auto shows next year.

You really gotta see one of the concepts in person before you form an opinion. I didn't like the silver one at all until I saw it! But... the convertible concept is the real show stopper. The interior is beautiful. The blue guages are something I'm really hoping for. :)

You really gotta see one of the concepts in person before you form an opinion. I didn't like the silver one at all until I saw it! But... the convertible concept is the real show stopper. The interior is beautiful. The blue guages are something I'm really hoping for. :)

I agree that the interior looks nice when shown in a color other than that ugly orange. I'd like to see an option to change the color to your liking (purple please) rather than being stuck with just one though. Give a few options (red, blue, orange, purple, yellow, green, white and pink to attract the females perhaps).

I love a white or silver vehicle w/dark purple trim... (Or reversed.)

I would like an interior that will nicely match the color of my exterior, with no retro gauges! those things have got to go, we need more modern! ;) This article (http://www.channel4.com/4car/di/road+test/driving+impression/9874/) made me feel a little better... sorry if it's a repost! :)

I guess I'm part of the minority here. I know the concept interior can't make it to production due to cost, but I like the concept's interior. The outside of the car has a wonderful way of looking both modern and retro at the same time. I want the inside to carry over that same feel. Obviously it needs to be ergonomic and easy to live with, but that doesn't mean that it has to be like any/every other car interior out there. When I climb behind the wheel, I want to know I'm in a Camaro without having to get out and look at the car again. As far as the cockpit feel, if I want a Corvette interior, I'll buy a Corvette.

Bottom line for me is... tweak the concept's design to make it production ready and user friendly. Don't dump it in favor of something that is indistinguishable from a Miata, S2000, GTO, 300Z, Eclipse, etc.

If you're going to fully retro my interior, you'd better fully retro my price too.

I pay 35K plus to have a NEW car, not something from the 60s. I like some of the cues that are taken from the past, but don't give me a newer version of an old car... there's a reason the car design needed to be redone back then and it still applies. I want a car that when I get inside I know why I just paid as much as I did for it. Make me feel good when I drive my Chevy. That means give me a modern interior.

If you're going to fully retro my interior, you'd better fully retro my price too.

I pay 35K plus to have a NEW car, not something from the 60s. I like some of the cues that are taken from the past, but don't give me a newer version of an old car... there's a reason the car design needed to be redone back then and it still applies. I want a car that when I get inside I know why I just paid as much as I did for it. Make me feel good when I drive my Chevy. That means give me a modern interior.

So go spend your 35K on something you feel better about. I think that "retro looking" gauges with modern functions would be just fine. As far as the reason the design needed to be "redone" back then, I felt then and I still feel today that the 2nd gen. design did not come close to being a major improvement over the 1st gen., just different than the original. Perhaps the new Camaro, Mustang, Challenger, etc. are just not your cup of tea, we all have to choose/buy what we like and no car/truck ever made or will be made in the future that appeals to everyone.
Clyde

I agree. Plus, if you look at the interior in person, you aren't exactly getting an interior from the '60s. If you didn't hear somebody say it was retro or see a picture of a first gen interior... you wouldn't have the slightest clue it was retro.

I agree. Plus, if you look at the interior in person, you aren't exactly getting an interior from the '60s. If you didn't hear somebody say it was retro or see a picture of a first gen interior... you wouldn't have the slightest clue it was retro.

That's true. The interior of the Camaro concept pulls off the retro 'inspired' thing just as well as the exterior does. It's very modern when judged on it's own merits. If there were no 1st Gen to compare it to everyone would probably say 'how modern' the whole car looks.

The interior, in no way, looks just like the interior of the 1st Gen's that it's based on.

My only issue was the ugly gold/orange interior color they went with. The convertible's interior is a VAST improvement and all they did was change the colors.

So go spend your 35K on something you feel better about. I think that "retro looking" gauges with modern functions would be just fine. As far as the reason the design needed to be "redone" back then, I felt then and I still feel today that the 2nd gen. design did not come close to being a major improvement over the 1st gen., just different than the original. Perhaps the new Camaro, Mustang, Challenger, etc. are just not your cup of tea, we all have to choose/buy what we like and no car/truck ever made or will be made in the future that appeals to everyone.
Clyde

Somebody can tell me to go get a different car just as quick as I could tell them the same if they don't want it redone modern. The point here was just to get people's opinions, not tell them to buy a different car if they don't agree. How is this any different than me saying "well if you don't like anything else they do to make the interior more modern, go buy a different car and don't give me your opinion?"

I think retro can be pulled off, and I think it can be done with the Camaro and am looking forward to seeing more as the finalized production pictures come out in time to see what happens.

Just putting in some opinion as well. It's not necessary to try and jump down my throat and tell me to go buy from a competitor. :)

I agree. Plus, if you look at the interior in person, you aren't exactly getting an interior from the '60s. If you didn't hear somebody say it was retro or see a picture of a first gen interior... you wouldn't have the slightest clue it was retro.

I've seen plenty of first gen interiors - it definitely has the retro theme going for it right now. I don't necessarily hate the retro interior, but I think it needs to feel a bit more modern still to appeal to a larger audience.

I haven't seen the interior in person, as many many people have not. I think the inside looks OK, it just doesn't give me the "new" retro feeling that some other retro interiors like the mustang did when I first saw it. It's not a polished product so I'm still keeping my options open, and still love just about everything about the car, looking forward to the next year and a half of developments. :)

Believe me, it's nice. The benefit of it looking the way it does is that no other car on the road will have an interior like it. I would hate to have such a cool exterior just to step inside and feel like I'm in an '07 Impala all of a sudden.

I still like the concept's interior...

well as a 22 year old that hopes to be able to buy one when they come out, heres what i want!
I want the retro look, two big guages in the center, and maybe the gas and temp in the center consule, that being said i also want it to be a truely modern feel to go with the old look, i want paddle shifters, stereo controls from the wheel, amazingly comfortable heated leather seats, and most of all the ol' LCD screen that has the ability to flip between NAV, other guages (oil, volts, boost?, acceleration...ect), needs to be able to sync with my cell phone and upload MP3's, and since the technology is there and the car would have a built in laptop essentially, diagnose and give a read out on my screen of trouble codes and what they mean and severity, and while we're at it i want to be able to tune it from the cockpit after i get a warranty override, or warranty expires

the technology is there to make it all happen but this is just a dream of mine.

I can't believe I've missed this thread.

I LOVE the concepts interior. I really wouldn't want them to change a thing, except for adding a parking brake and levers and such on the steering wheel. And one thing I DO NOT want is LCD screens and such cluttering it up.

I'm 23 btw.

i just think having to take your eyes away from the front cluster to look down to see if i have gas or if temp/oil/batt reading are good is just plain silly these days.they need to be placed so that a quick scan can get all your info.

i just think having to take your eyes away from the front cluster to look down to see if i have gas or if temp/oil/batt reading are good is just plain silly these days.they need to be placed so that a quick scan can get all your info.

This is one of the issues I've heard brought up that I think people need to find out how things work in the final version before they decide whether they like it or not. I highly doubt that the only way you'll know if you're about out of gas is to look down at the console gauges when nearly every new car made these days has an information center. I could be wrong, but just going by the tech that GM has been using in recent years, I'd guess that the console gauges are probably secondary information (you get alerted about temp, oil, batt, fuel and if you want to look at the gauge then you can).

Has GM or Scott made a comment about the results of the poll?

Do you guys think cloth will still be offered?

I hated the leather in my 4th gens and the c5 vette, now the gto/c6 leather was better but I'd still prefer cloth.

Has GM or Scott made a comment about the results of the poll?

Do you guys think cloth will still be offered?

I hated the leather in my 4th gens and the c5 vette, now the gto/c6 leather was better but I'd still prefer cloth.
I don't work for GM. But as an engineer who has done surveys as part of my job, it's clear this is indeed an "unscientific" poll, as was described by the OP in his first post of the thread:
"It doesn't seem like anybody is for a retro-themed interior, especially retro guages/guage pod. So, just to get some highly unscientific numbers, who likes or doesn't mind the retro interior..."

This is a classic 'push' poll, tainted and directed by the preferences of the polltaker.

There's also the factor this poll began over TWO YEARS ago, and different respondents have had a quite large variation in what they know or think of as the 'interior'. There's the concept interior, the half-done spy pix interior, and the as-yet-unseen production interior with its unknown feature set/quality/textures/ergonomics/price points. Not much of a solid basis for a survey.

I don't work for GM. But as an engineer who has done surveys as part of my job, it's clear this is indeed an "unscientific" poll, as was described by the OP in his first post of the thread:


This is a classic 'push' poll, tainted and directed by the preferences of the polltaker.

There's also the factor this poll began over TWO YEARS ago, and different respondents have had a quite large variation in what they know or think of as the 'interior'. There's the concept interior, the half-done spy pix interior, and the as-yet-unseen production interior with its unknown feature set/quality/textures/ergonomics/price points. Not much of a solid basis for a survey.

Your attempt to discredit this survey seems a bit desperate to me. First of all, no one is voting on the production interior. No one has seen it. Secondly, the half-done spy pics were only posted like two weeks ago. That hardly invalidates two years worth of data. If you think it clouds the water, then ignore any posts made since the spy pics were posted. The reality is the ratio really didn’t much since then anyway.

It has been my experience, as an engineer, that those that always question the validity or the science in the data are typically those that don’t like what the data says.

Since you apparently are the local expert on surveys and polls, why not start one on this topic that is “scientific”. I mean the “interior” discussion is up to 25 pages. It is a very popular topic right now, with a lot of different opinions out there. Seems like a good time to get a reality check.

Your attempt to discredit this survey seems a bit desperate to me. First of all, no one is voting on the production interior. No one has seen it. Secondly, the half-done spy pics were only posted like two weeks ago. That hardly invalidates two years worth of data. If you think it clouds the water, then ignore any posts made since the spy pics were posted. The reality is the ratio really didn’t much since then anyway.
There is little I could do, if I wanted to, to 'discredit' this survey. My only goal has been to point out its extreme limitations and one or two key flaws, which I believe I've done.
It has been my experience, as an engineer, that those that always question the validity or the science in the data are typically those that don’t like what the data says.
I've made no bones about it, I like what I've seen so far about the interior. So yes, I'm more inclined to challenge polls like this one. If that surprises anyone, they haven't been reading my posts lately. It could also be said, those who dispute the points I've made, are against a heritage-themed new Camaro. So?
Since you apparently are the local expert on surveys and polls, why not start one on this topic that is “scientific”. I mean the “interior” discussion is up to 25 pages. It is a very popular topic right now, with a lot of different opinions out there. Seems like a good time to get a reality check.
I'd love to. And if you look around, you'll see the push poll I posted. But the fact is, no one can really get an accurate poll on this, UNTIL a production Camaro is available for people to try out. Fact is - people don't just stare at a car's interior. They OPERATE it. So it's nonsensical to try and poll people on interiors, just based on 'looks'. You can poll anything. A person could make a poll of liking/disliking the notion of a heritage-theme interior. (Obviously the poll in this thread is slanted as I've mentioned, thus rendering its results deeply flawed). But why make such a poll? The only available interior to poll in such a way is the CONCEPT Camaro's. An interior that cannot possibly end up in the production car, for a multitude of reasons... and it's also an interior that few respondents have sat in, much less operated. So really, what's the point then, until which time we can all experience the production interior in a real car?

Since you apparently are the local expert on surveys and polls, why not start one on this topic that is “scientific”.
That's just the trouble. And the check-mate on sites like these. You CAN'T make a scientific poll here. In addition to what BigDarknFast has already said, add to it that the entire polling-base is made largely if not nearly totally up of GM/Camaro enthusiasts.:mad: So asking an opinion of the interior, or any other aspect of the car through a poll, and then using the results to prove a point is well....I think you can see where I'm going with this. The results are skewed - they're NON-scientific.

So all it does is provide easy ammo to those who oppose the poll, or ;) wish to point out its flaws.

OK, so the poll is unscientific, or a push-poll with slanted results.

I don't know how some of you can continue to ignore the pink elephant in the room that the retro interior *IS* polarizing (to more than a handful of people that is). Even if half or more of the poll respondents were pushed to vote for the modern interior, that's still not a great sign if even just 1/3 of the voters on a camaro enthusiast site are turned off or at the least very un-enthusiastic about it.

I've said this before and i'll say it again. Call something like the malibu (or GTO, G8, CTS, corvette) interior boring all you want, but IMO there's something to be said for following the formula that has garnered the first positive press over GM car interiors in memory. Trying to get cute with a 'different' concept that some fraction of even camaro enthusiasts find displeasing just doesn't make sense to me.

OK, so the poll is unscientific, or a push-poll with slanted results.

I don't know how some of you can continue to ignore the pink elephant in the room that the retro interior *IS* polarizing (to more than a handful of people that is). Even if half or more of the poll respondents were pushed to vote for the modern interior, that's still not a great sign if even just 1/3 of the voters on a camaro enthusiast site are turned off or at the least very un-enthusiastic about it.

I've said this before and i'll say it again. Call something like the malibu (or GTO, G8, CTS, corvette) interior boring all you want, but IMO there's something to be said for following the formula that has garnered the first positive press over GM car interiors in memory. Trying to get cute with a 'different' concept that some fraction of even camaro enthusiasts find displeasing just doesn't make sense to me.
Everything about Camaros is 'polarizing'. This is not, nor has it ever been really, a 'mainstream commuter car' in the sense of a Toyota Corolla. It's unabashed, in-your-face, American muscle. It's destined to have a bold, striking design. I for one, EXPECT it to have design cues harking back to at least SOME of the fabled, historic Camaros already unleashed. Passions run high, surrounding any new Camaro. Thus there is NO way that *all* fans would, or will, be ecstatic... and the best Chevy can & should hope for is to make happy as many people as possible. I would not want a mainstream interior for this car, especially with its unique and characteristic exterior design. The new Camaro deserves a special interior, to match its striking exterior. I hope that those who truly do love Camaros, will wait to see the production interior, as the production exterior has now been revealed, before making any hard decisions or judgments. It seems like the logical thing to do.

I've made no bones about it; I like what I've seen so far about the interior. So yes, I'm more inclined to challenge polls like this one. If that surprises anyone, they haven't been reading my posts lately. It could also be said, those who dispute the points I've made, are against a heritage-themed new Camaro. So? ?

My issue has nothing to do with your opinion of the interior or mine. It has to do with your attempt to poke holes in any evidence at all that implies there is a significant number of people that dislike the interior concept. I readily admit that there are clearly people on both sides of this issue. I also find that fact to be a big problem for such and important car.


I'd love to. And if you look around, you'll see the push poll I posted. But the fact is, no one can really get an accurate poll on this, UNTIL a production Camaro is available for people to try out. Fact is - people don't just stare at a car's interior. They OPERATE it. So it's nonsensical to try and poll people on interiors, just based on 'looks'. You can poll anything. A person could make a poll of liking/disliking the notion of a heritage-theme interior. (Obviously the poll in this thread is slanted as I've mentioned, thus rendering its results deeply flawed). But why make such a poll? The only available interior to poll in such a way is the CONCEPT Camaro's. An interior that cannot possibly end up in the production car, for a multitude of reasons... and it's also an interior that few respondents have sat in, much less operated. So really, what's the point then, until which time we can all experience the production interior in a real car?

So no one can get an accurate pole on this? These polls are obviously slanted and deeply flawed? Why make such a poll? What is the point? …………Then you create a very similar poll on the same topic. Now I am confused.

Like any data, it is only valid or significant if it is used in context. If you are trying to take this poll and say that the production 5th gen Camaro has a horrible interior and no one will buy it and it is ultimately doomed, then clearly your logic is flawed.

If your goal is to judge initial reaction, based entirely on visual appeal, of the concept cars interior using the opinions of some Camaro enthusiasts. Then maybe it is more relevant.

That's just the trouble. And the check-mate on sites like these. You CAN'T make a scientific poll here. In addition to what BigDarknFast has already said, add to it that the entire polling-base is made largely if not nearly totally up of GM/Camaro enthusiasts.:mad: So asking an opinion of the interior, or any other aspect of the car through a poll, and then using the results to prove a point is well....I think you can see where I'm going with this. The results are skewed - they're NON-scientific.

So all it does is provide easy ammo to those who oppose the poll, or ;) wish to point out its flaws.


No poll or survey captures everything and no poll will be the definitive piece of evidence in any issue. It is only useful data in the context within it was taken. If you are trying to make a sweep generalization about the potential sales of the 5th gen with this data, you definitely have a problem.

If you want to know the initial reaction to the concept cars interior design from a very specific and small population of Camaro enthusiasts, then the data is totally relevant.

My issue has nothing to do with your opinion of the interior or mine. It has to do with your attempt to poke holes in any evidence at all that implies there is a significant number of people that dislike the interior concept. I readily admit that there are clearly people on both sides of this issue. I also find that fact to be a big problem for such an important car.
Of Course, I do agree there are a significant number of folks who dislike the concept interior. The question is though... how many? 3%, 8%, 28%? What circumstances did they make this judgment under - was one of their friends standing there beside them grumbling, when they decided? How would their opinion have changed, if they could have sat in or driven the concept? And so on.
So no one can get an accurate pole on this? These polls are obviously slanted and deeply flawed? Why make such a poll? What is the point? …………Then you create a very similar poll on the same topic. Now I am confused.
Apparently you haven't read my poll. I stated right in that thread, it's a push poll meant to help illustrate the dilemmas of polling like we are. Sure, anyone can make a poll. Garbage in - - - Garbage out :death:
If your goal is to judge initial reaction, based entirely on visual appeal, of the concept cars interior using the opinions of some Camaro enthusiasts. Then maybe it is more relevant.
It's more relevant, sure. I'd say, about 8% more relevant :D

This poll was never meant to be "scientific". In fact, how could it be? It's on an internet message board where nothing is set in a controlled setting. People punching away at the keyboard in the safe comfort of their homes, behind a monitor, will usually be a lot more frank in their opinions.

Still, this isn't really hard and it's a pretty simple question. "Do you like the design theme on the concept or not?" That's really all I was trying to get at some 2 years ago. And I do believe the reason why I originally stated "it doesn't seem anybody is for a retro-themed interior" is because that is the exact attitude that was prevailant on this board at the time.

Obviously Chevrolet has gotten a lot of positive feedback about the general design (console gauges, etc.) since then, or else the interior wouldn't be shaping up the way it is. My worry is that they took a great deal of their data from the Camaro focus group and 1st Genners, who were admittedly die-hard Camaro guys. The layout and design must appeal to a wide range of buyers for Camaro to be successful. We'll see how this plays out. I just find it peculiar how a car that GM insists is NOT retro would have such direct interior styling themes from the '67-'69 cars.

This poll was never meant to be "scientific". In fact, how could it be? It's on an internet message board where nothing is set in a controlled setting. People punching away at the keyboard in the safe comfort of their homes, behind a monitor, will usually be a lot more frank in their opinions.

Still, this isn't really hard and it's a pretty simple question. "Do you like the design theme on the concept or not?" That's really all I was trying to get at some 2 years ago. And I do believe the reason why I originally stated "it doesn't seem anybody is for a retro-themed interior" is because that is the exact attitude that was prevailant on this board at the time.

Obviously Chevrolet has gotten a lot of positive feedback about the general design (console gauges, etc.) since then, or else the interior wouldn't be shaping up the way it is. My worry is that they took a great deal of their data from the Camaro focus group and 1st Genners, who were admittedly die-hard Camaro guys. The layout and design must appeal to a wide range of buyers for Camaro to be successful. We'll see how this plays out. I just find it peculiar how a car that GM insists is NOT retro would have such direct interior styling themes from the '67-'69 cars.

Well, at least we agree on a few things. As stated much earlier, this is a keenly unscientific poll. Chevy must certainly have received a lot of positive feedback on the car (inside AND out) for it to continue to have heritage design cues incorporated. The Camaro does need to appeal to a wide range of buyers, like the Mustang already does today. I happen to think it will, and have faith it will not disappoint. YMMV :shrug:

Everything about Camaros is 'polarizing'. This is not, nor has it ever been really, a 'mainstream commuter car' in the sense of a Toyota Corolla. It's unabashed, in-your-face, American muscle...

This is where we fundamentally disagree then. Remember the famous shelby quote about the mustang? "It's a secretary's car". Camaro came into the market to be the competitor to that secretary car. So IMO, camaro is not just unabashed american muscle. It also has to have mainstream appeal.

And again, IMO, i'm not sure how a retro interior that even a measurable fraction of hardcore camaro enthusiasts find unappealing is going to find mainstream appeal in people that just want a coupe with a little more flair than the honda civic they've been driving. Mock them as appliances all you want, but cars like the civic, accord, maxima, mazda 3/6 series do have owners that believe the car they are driving is sporty and fun. Where do you think the hundreds of thousands of fbody buyers from the 80s went? They're not buying pony cars, but they're still buying cars they believe are stylish and fun.

It's with that in mind that i think the camaro would do better to go after mainstream appeal, because IMO, the people that really love the retro interior would have bought 5th gens no matter what. You kinda said it best, the retro interior is designed to appeal to the hardcore muscle car enthusiasts. But who buys a muscle car strictly because it has a cute interior? And of those, who would not buy a muscle car that otherwise fits their needs if it had a world class (if 'common') interior?

This is where we fundamentally disagree then. Remember the famous shelby quote about the mustang? "It's a secretary's car". Camaro came into the market to be the competitor to that secretary car. So IMO, camaro is not just unabashed american muscle. It also has to have mainstream appeal.

And again, IMO, i'm not sure how a retro interior that even a measurable fraction of hardcore camaro enthusiasts find unappealing is going to find mainstream appeal in people that just want a coupe with a little more flair than the honda civic they've been driving. Mock them as appliances all you want, but cars like the civic, accord, maxima, mazda 3/6 series do have owners that believe the car they are driving is sporty and fun. Where do you think the hundreds of thousands of fbody buyers from the 80s went? They're not buying pony cars, but they're still buying cars they believe are stylish and fun.

It's with that in mind that i think the camaro would do better to go after mainstream appeal, because IMO, the people that really love the retro interior would have bought 5th gens no matter what. You kinda said it best, the retro interior is designed to appeal to the hardcore muscle car enthusiasts. But who buys a muscle car strictly because it has a cute interior? And of those, who would not buy a muscle car that otherwise fits their needs if it had a world class (if 'common') interior?
I'm sure there are 'some' Accord and Maxima owners who consider their cars fun. But it's not the core of that segment, rather a fringe.

Where did 80's FBody buyers go? Well they got older and in most cases, more affluent. Today they are buying LS2 GTO's and Mustang GT's, as a 'fun' car, maybe a weekend car only. Next year, I've a feeling they will be buying Camaros :shrug:

BTW the success of the 05+ Mustang guts a lot of your argument above.

You kinda said it best, the retro interior is designed to appeal to the hardcore muscle car enthusiasts. But who buys a muscle car strictly because it has a cute interior? And of those, who would not buy a muscle car that otherwise fits their needs if it had a world class (if 'common') interior?

I want the interior retro inspired to some degree. Would I not buy it if it wasnt? It all depends. My requirement for the exterior to be '69 retro was much more mandatory. Im probably similar to you in the way that I have a list of things Id like the car to be. Some are more flexible, others like the exterior need to be 69 inspired to even be considered. Id change some things in the interior but I realize I am one person.

To be blunt, I dont give this poll much credibility. It seems to essentially be a petition for those who dont like the interior and therefore why would people who liked the interor bother? The assumption in someones earlier post that "noone wants a retro interior" is also wrong. It seems someone created a somewhat biased poll. Theres nothing wrong with that. My problem is when people expect GM to react to their personal opinon backed by a biased poll from the people who chose to respond from one thread on one internet board and be taken seriously. This is not directed at any one person.

But who buys a muscle car strictly because it has a cute interior?

If true, kinda makes this whole thread irrelevant doesnt it ;)

To be blunt, I don’t give this poll much credibility. It seems to essentially be a petition for those who don’t like the interior and therefore why would people who liked the interior bother? The assumption in someones earlier post that "noone wants a retro interior" is also wrong. It seems someone created a somewhat biased poll. Theres nothing wrong with that. My problem is when people expect GM to react to their personal opinon backed by a biased poll from the people who chose to respond from one thread on one internet board and be taken seriously.

You’re kidding right? There is a 26 page discussion / argument about the interior on this forum. Those that like the retro interior haven’t exactly been sitting there holding their tongues. You really think those that liked the concept interior just sat there and kept there opinions to themselves while others proceed to bash the design? Are you new here?

Of course GM should not respond to a single internet poll. This is not the result of a detailed scientific study that conclusions can be drawn from. It is merely a single data point. That does not mean that it is an invalided data point. The real question is do similar results exist elsewhere? I know that some here seem to think this site is in some cosmic vortex that somehow produces the only three people in the world that dislike the concept interior. I am quite certain that reality is somewhere in between. I guess only GM can answer that question. Some other questions I would love to know the answer to:

Was there a similar split on the interior expressed on other Camaro enthusiast sites?
What did the non-Camaro enthusiast public think about the interior?
What did the non-enthusiast public think about the interior?
Was the very positive response of the concept because of the interior or in spite of it?
Is this really the best interior design that we can put in this car?
Could there be a better compromise that will appeal to more potential buyers?
Should there be a better compromise that will appeal to more potential buyers?
Was the interior truly the most disliked feature of the concept car as some have claimed?
Were any other interior designs considered or mocked up?
Was there any movements within the Camaro team pushing for a different interior?
If the interior flops, when is the first possible MCE to replace / improve it?

P. S. I don’t actually expect answers to any of these. I just hope GM has really done their homework on this one.

I'm very intrested in a reply to the last one since I love the interior, but might not be able to buy one right away.

If the interior flops, when is the first possible MCE to replace / improve it?



My opinion? Never. The last 5th gen to roll off the assembly line will probably have a very similar, if not identical interior, to the first one.

You’re kidding right? There is a 26 page discussion / argument about the interior on this forum. Those that like the retro interior haven’t exactly been sitting there holding their tongues. You really think those that liked the concept interior just sat there and kept there opinions to themselves while others proceed to bash the design? Are you new here?

Of course GM should not respond to a single internet poll. This is not the result of a detailed scientific study that conclusions can be drawn from. It is merely a single data point. That does not mean that it is an invalided data point. The real question is do similar results exist elsewhere? I know that some here seem to think this site is in some cosmic vortex that somehow produces the only three people in the world that dislike the concept interior. I am quite certain that reality is somewhere in between. I guess only GM can answer that question. Some other questions I would love to know the answer to:

Was there a similar split on the interior expressed on other Camaro enthusiast sites?
What did the non-Camaro enthusiast public think about the interior?
What did the non-enthusiast public think about the interior?
Was the very positive response of the concept because of the interior or in spite of it?
Is this really the best interior design that we can put in this car?
Could there be a better compromise that will appeal to more potential buyers?
Should there be a better compromise that will appeal to more potential buyers?
Was the interior truly the most disliked feature of the concept car as some have claimed?
Were any other interior designs considered or mocked up?
Was there any movements within the Camaro team pushing for a different interior?
If the interior flops, when is the first possible MCE to replace / improve it?

P. S. I don’t actually expect answers to any of these. I just hope GM has really done their homework on this one.
It's great you are this passionate about the Camaro, to wonder all these things. But it in some ways, it just reinforces the points made by 5thgen69camaro above, and some by others herein, that a small and very vocal minority in the enthusiast community have made a massive grandstand about the CONCEPT's interior due to their personal dislike for it. (I intentionally differentiate this from those same peoples' disdain for the recent cobbled interior spy pix, since there is no way to really conclude a lot about the final PRODUCTION interior from the pix). It seems you suspect there is wider disappointment in the concept's interior, than just the 'gang of ten' here. I'm sure you could go and dig up parallel 'gangs of ten' from some other car fan sites. But the problem again with that, would be the tainted nature in all likelihood of such data. In fact I'd be even more suspicious of forum survey data from sites like a Honda import fan club site. (Too many Honda owners have been humiliated in front of their girl or boyfriend, in impromptu street 'performance comparisons' with so many Camaros over the years :D ).

So what's GM to do? Especially with notoriously unreliable subjective human preferences, the same human dynamics that gave horrible 'consumer clinic' results for the first Caddy CTS (that went on to become a huge hit for GM)? They should trust their designers and leaders, that's what. People like Tom Peters, who also led the design for the C6 with its now famous success and acceptance by fans (despite the early and overblown hidden headlight drama :rolleyes: ). I think GM would be be better off completing a flawless high-quality launch of the new Camaro, than in chasing their tails to answer the above doubting-Thomas questions. JM02 :shrug:

So what's GM to do? Especially with notoriously unreliable subjective human preferences, the same human dynamics that gave horrible 'consumer clinic' results for the first Caddy CTS (that went on to become a huge hit for GM)? They should trust their designers and leaders, that's what. People like Tom Peters, who also led the design for the C6 with its now famous success and acceptance by fans (despite the early and overblown hidden headlight drama :rolleyes: ).

As you pointed out, even the most well-intentioned, thought out, "scientific" of consumer focus group polls can give poor real-world results. The Aztek scored big with focus groups before its launch too. :dead:

Obviously we'll have to wait and see how the general public feels about the interior design. I just can't help the feeling that Camaro might be better off in its quest for more "mainstream" sales by going with a bit less "in-your-face" retro, "mainstream" interior. I can't help but worry that Chevrolet listed too much (if there is such a thing ;) )to the older Camaro guys and not enough to more general-public based groups, who WILL be the people that sustain sales of the car.

It's great you are this passionate about the Camaro, to wonder all these things. But it in some ways, it just reinforces the points made by 5thgen69camaro above, and some by others herein, that a small and very vocal minority in the enthusiast community have made a massive grandstand about the Concept’s interior due to their personal dislike for it. :

How in the hell do you know whether or not the interior haters are in the minority or not? I mean you attempt to blow holes in any evidence that differs from your opinion. What evidence, other than your opinion, do you have that says the interior lovers are the majority?



Not only do I suspect there are more people that dislike the interior then “the gang of ten”; I know there is! Please tell me how someone’s unsolicited opinion about something that they like or dislike is “tainted” data?

[QUOTE=BigDarknFast;5126586 So what's GM to do? Especially with notoriously unreliable subjective human preferences, the same human dynamics that gave horrible 'consumer clinic' results for the first Caddy CTS (that went on to become a huge hit for GM)? They should trust their designers and leaders, that's what. People like Tom Peters, who also led the design for the C6 with its now famous success and acceptance by fans (despite the early and overblown hidden headlight drama :rolleyes: ). I think GM would be be better off completing a flawless high-quality launch of the new Camaro, than in chasing their tails to answer the above doubting-Thomas questions. JM02 :shrug:

You don’t work in the industry do you? The unreliable subjective human preferences that you speak of are totally responsible for a person’s decision to purchase a car. They absolutely need to be understood for any car to be successful. I can promise you that the Camaro team is sweating every detail of this car. They most definitely have pondered some, if not all of these questions, and I’m sure they know the answers to them based on their own experience and research. The need for a flawless high-quality launch is needed regardless of whether the interior is beautiful or hideous. I don’t really see how it’s relevant here.

As you pointed out, even the most well-intentioned, thought out, "scientific" of consumer focus group polls can give poor real-world results. The Aztek scored big with focus groups before its launch too. :dead:

Obviously we'll have to wait and see how the general public feels about the interior design. I just can't help the feeling that Camaro might be better off in its quest for more "mainstream" sales by going with a bit less "in-your-face" retro, "mainstream" interior. I can't help but worry that Chevrolet listed too much (if there is such a thing ;) )to the older Camaro guys and not enough to more general-public based groups, who WILL be the people that sustain sales of the car.

Are you sure about the Asstek's focus group results? I vaigly remember reading a "case study" on the aztek developement during grad. school. It read like a perfect case of how not to develope a car. I remember it stating that the aztek failed multiple design clinics and still was produced with relatively minor design changes.

Are you sure about the Asstek's focus group results? I vaigly remember reading a "case study" on the aztek developement during grad. school. It read like a perfect case of how not to develope a car. I remember it stating that the aztek failed multiple design clinics and still was produced with relatively minor design changes.

Hmm, I had heard that the Aztek was shaped, quite literally, by focus groups.

How in the hell do you know whether or not the interior haters are in the minority or not? I mean you attempt to blow holes in any evidence that differs from your opinion. What evidence, other than your opinion, do you have that says the interior lovers are the majority?
I believe FBF when he says the interior will be well-received, WHEN it is READY for public review. I also believe he and his crew have a huge advantage in data, insights, and understanding behind the design of the car - - and in its resonance with the possible buying public as a whole, vs. people like the small and vocal minority griping about it here.
Not only do I suspect there are more people that dislike the interior then “the gang of ten”; I know there is! Please tell me how someone’s unsolicited opinion about something that they like or dislike is “tainted” data?
If it makes you feel better, I'll refer to them as the 'gang of twenty' :shrug:

Are you thinking there are more like 160, from this poll herein? See below.

If you still don't understand a 'push' poll, then:
1. Review its definition: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/push%20poll
2. Review the FIRST POST in this thread, where the OP gave this stinky boat its first push out to sea.
You don’t work in the industry do you? The unreliable subjective human preferences that you speak of are totally responsible for a person’s decision to purchase a car. They absolutely need to be understood for any car to be successful. I can promise you that the Camaro team is sweating every detail of this car. They most definitely have pondered some, if not all of these questions, and I’m sure they know the answers to them based on their own experience and research. The need for a flawless high-quality launch is needed regardless of whether the interior is beautiful or hideous. I don’t really see how it’s relevant here.
It matters not what industry I work in. The logic is universal. A 'push' poll can lead big numbers of respondents astray.

But back on the interior. I'm going to assume most of the respondents voted before the spy pix leaked. So the nonfunctional, barely viewable concept interior, which virtually none of them had sat in or operated, was what they were asked to vote on. I can see how 160 folks would vote they want something more modern, especially if given a hint in post #1 about the 'right' way to vote. But it means little about their true and final feelings on a similarly themed interior, with modernized ergonomics, features and equipment, possibly even including a HUD. THAT poll can and should be undertaken ONLY after said people can see and try out a real 5gen Camaro's interior, and ONLY in a fair and neutral fashion with unbiased questions.

One last thing. It's clear your own personal decisionmaking tendencies as a car enthusiast are 'leaking in' to this, in your references to 'unreliable subjective preferences ... totally responsible for person's decision to buy a car'. In contrast, many (if not most) car buyers' decisions are indeed rational and clear-cut, since so many buy a car as a 'transportation appliance'. They compare features, cost, MPG, leg room etc. Way down in their list, comes styling and such. It's more often just us car nuts who give styling a major place at the table.

Hmm, I had heard that the Aztek was shaped, quite literally, by focus groups.

Yes, that is what I heard as well. I even listened to a speech by Brian Nesbitt at Georgia Tech about that very subject.

So what's GM to do? Especially with notoriously unreliable subjective human preferences, the same human dynamics that gave horrible 'consumer clinic' results for the first Caddy CTS (that went on to become a huge hit for GM)? They should trust their designers and leaders, that's what.

What we don't know is how much better it could have sold if the interior was excecuted better. The interior was always the weak point, and this was pointed out at every turn. I bet that sales would have been measurably larger with a better designed interior.

What we don't know is how much better it could have sold if the interior was excecuted better. The interior was always the weak point, and this was pointed out at every turn. I bet that sales would have been measurably larger with a better designed interior.
Bah. I can make the same argument, we'll never know how much WORSE it would sell, with an interior that is way out of sync with the overall design theme. I believe it would hurt sales, to have a new Camaro that gets the owner all stoked with its heritage exterior styling, then poof - you open the door and sit down in a bland, anonymous HondaToyotaNissan interior :(

Bah. I can make the same argument, we'll never know how much WORSE it would sell, with an interior that is way out of sync with the overall design theme. I believe it would hurt sales, to have a new Camaro that gets the owner all stoked with its heritage exterior styling, then poof - you open the door and sit down in a bland, anonymous HondaToyotaNissan interior :(

Yes, that is true, we would never know. But, if you had an interior that was already viewed to be poor, because they thought they would be a little crazy, a better tested design most likely would have faired better and increased sales.

Why do you still think it has to be retro or anonymous? You don't think that GM designers are capable of creating a great modern Camaro interior that is not bland or anonymous? I know they could.

Yes, that is true, we would never know. But, if you had an interior that was already viewed to be poor, because they thought they would be a little crazy, a better tested design most likely would have faired better and increased sales.

Why do you still think it has to be retro or anonymous? You don't think that GM designers are capable of creating a great modern Camaro interior that is not bland or anonymous? I know they could.
No one really has a lock on how this interior will look, feel and work in the production car. From what I've seen, I'm very optimistic though. I believe it already will successfully walk the fine line, not retro, not anonymous, and not too strange to please owners with its functionality and unique character.

I believe FBF when he says the interior will be well-received, WHEN it is READY for public review. I also believe he and his crew have a huge advantage in data, insights, and understanding behind the design of the car - - and in its resonance with the possible buying public as a whole, vs. people like the small and vocal minority griping about it here. .

That is great that you have faith in the Camaro team. It still is not evidence that those that like the interior are in the Majority. Still you continue to state it as if it is fact.

If it makes you feel better, I'll refer to them as the 'gang of twenty' :shrug:


Are you thinking there are more like 160, from this poll herein? See below. .

You keep trying to assign quantitative support for your position: 8% here;10-20 people there. Continuously stating ridiculous rectally extracted numbers doesn’t make them true.

I have stated multiple times my opinion about the usefulness of this survey. Please catch up.



If you still don't understand a 'push' poll, then:
1. Review its definition: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/push%20poll
2. Review the FIRST POST in this thread, where the OP gave this stinky boat its first push out to sea. .

Thank you for the “polling 101 class”. I do get the concept of a push poll. I just think you are exaggerating its effect because it does not fit your agenda.

Almost none of the comments I made in my previous post had anything to do with the poll/ survey.

My comment about you trying to label everything as “tainted” has to do with your attempt to discount anyone’s opinion that differs from yours. Even opinions that were not given as part of this survey are invalid because the person hasn’t been in the car or experienced it or tasted and smelled it or what ever you seem to think is required. I am sorry but, people are allowed to have an opinion that something is visually unappealing to them. And if it is important to them, they are allowed to use that as input in their decision making process.



It matters not what industry I work in. The logic is universal. A 'push' poll can lead big numbers of respondents astray. .

My comment has nothing to do with the Poll (see above). It was in regards to what seemed like a lack of understanding of the development process on your part.



One last thing. It's clear your own personal decisionmaking tendencies as a car enthusiast are 'leaking in' to this, in your references to 'unreliable subjective preferences ... totally responsible for person's decision to buy a car'. In contrast, many (if not most) car buyers' decisions are indeed rational and clear-cut, since so many buy a car as a 'transportation appliance'. They compare features, cost, MPG, leg room etc. Way down in their list, comes styling and such. It's more often just us car nuts who give styling a major place at the table.

First you are speaking for “the majority” of people that like the interior. Now you are speaking for “most people” in how they determine what car to buy. Wow, maybe GM should just call you since you have all of this figured out.

I never said anything about subjective preferences being irrational. Sure people are going to look at objective and quantitative information like MPG, leg room, options, etc. Ultimately it will come down to their personal preferences as to which of these things are the most important to them and which things they can compromise on. In the end, there personal preference for the cars various attributes will determine whether it is purchased or not. It is extremely arrogant for you to make the statement that “styling and such” is at the bottom of the list. Everyone is different. Styling is more important to some than others (and no not just enthusiasts).

If you’re right and it’s only about the quantitative features of the car, then none of this matters anyway. They might as well stick the camaro label on cobalt. I mean all that matters is the MPG, options, etc. “Most people only want a transportation appliance anyway”.

You’re kidding right? There is a 26 page discussion / argument about the interior on this forum. Those that like the retro interior haven’t exactly been sitting there holding their tongues. You really think those that liked the concept interior just sat there and kept there opinions to themselves while others proceed to bash the design? Are you new here?

No Im not kidding at all. You cant start a thread with

I think we really need to communicate to Chevrolet our feelings on the concept's interior. It doesn't seem like anybody is for a retro-themed interior

and expect to be an unbiased poll. The news agencies do it all the time when they word their polls to get an intended outcome by the poll taker. Good data but taken with a grain of salt the same way a liberal would watching foxnews, or a conservative watching CNN.


Of course GM should not respond to a single internet poll. This is not the result of a detailed scientific study that conclusions can be drawn from. It is merely a single data point. That does not mean that it is an invalided data point. The real question is do similar results exist elsewhere? I know that some here seem to think this site is in some cosmic vortex that somehow produces the only three people in the world that dislike the concept interior. I am quite certain that reality is somewhere in between.

Thats exactly what this poll is a single biased poll. Im not saying that people who want a different interior are in the minority but this poll certainly doesnt prove that. How many times have you seen an online poll between import and domestic when someone shows up on the board and says, hey lets all vote for.... Some of the replies seem to suggest GM is required to respond to every poll or debate and thats crazy. If someone wants their poll to have a little more credibillity dont slant the polling...


I just hope GM has really done their homework on this one.

Are you new here? :D Im sure GM is aware of the responces.

This is where we fundamentally disagree then. Remember the famous shelby quote about the mustang? "It's a secretary's car". Camaro came into the market to be the competitor to that secretary car. So IMO, camaro is not just unabashed american muscle. It also has to have mainstream appeal.


I cant believe I missed this part and how out of context you misquoted shelby. Shelby would be insulted if you thought of Mustang as a secretaries car, If camaro becomes a secretary car you FAILED! When he refered to the Mustang as a "secretaries car" it was NOT a compliment. Im hoping someone told you about it and you didnt misconstru it that badly on your own. the correct quote was... Lee Iococa called me in 1964 right after the mustang came out and said we want to make a race car out of this. I said, I dont think it can be done, that thing is a secretaries car I dont think it could be done...
"I was proud of the hotrodders that put it together because what we did take something that WAS a secretaries car and turn it into something that was remembered 45 years later as a performance car RATHER than a secrateries car."


here is the link to Shelby himself saying the exact opposite of what you were so sure of. Mustang ceased to be a secretaries car when Shelby got involved. The second one is just a cool KR link.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2RBBsVckCY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8GynG0O2HY

That is great that you have faith in the Camaro team. It still is not evidence that those that like the interior are in the Majority. Still you continue to state it as if it is fact.
Nonsense. Have you not seen, how I began the TWO sentences you commented upon, with "I believe"? I don't know how to make it any more clear, those are my opinions. It would be absurd to try and construe those as statements of fact.
You keep trying to assign quantitative support for your position: 8% here;10-20 people there. Continuously stating ridiculous rectally extracted numbers doesn’t make them true.
I guess we're all doomed then ( :rolleyes: ). No one has objective numbers here, do they? In fact now that my push poll ("Should we wait" thread herein) has some responses - I can make a claim that since those disliking the interior are a minority there (vote is currently 19 - 7), that my thread refutes this one.
My comment about you trying to label everything as “tainted” has to do with your attempt to discount anyone’s opinion that differs from yours. Even opinions that were not given as part of this survey are invalid because the person hasn’t been in the car or experienced it or tasted and smelled it or what ever you seem to think is required. I am sorry but, people are allowed to have an opinion that something is visually unappealing to them. And if it is important to them, they are allowed to use that as input in their decision making process.
Everyone's entitled to their opinion, as I've said. Unfortunately, some don't seem to think their opinions are allowed to be challenged or debated. Well, they are. Too bad if it bugs you, but I am allowed to comment on your opinions. If it's important to you, Of Course you can make it a factor in your decisions - I've not said you can't - but I can comment if I think it's mighty shortsighted to lose perspective on such things.
First you are speaking for “the majority” of people that like the interior. Now you are speaking for “most people” in how they determine what car to buy. Wow, maybe GM should just call you since you have all of this figured out.

I never said anything about subjective preferences being irrational. Sure people are going to look at objective and quantitative information like MPG, leg room, options, etc. Ultimately it will come down to their personal preferences as to which of these things are the most important to them and which things they can compromise on. In the end, there personal preference for the cars various attributes will determine whether it is purchased or not. It is extremely arrogant for you to make the statement that “styling and such” is at the bottom of the list. Everyone is different. Styling is more important to some than others (and no not just enthusiasts).

If you’re right and it’s only about the quantitative features of the car, then none of this matters anyway. They might as well stick the camaro label on cobalt. I mean all that matters is the MPG, options, etc. “Most people only want a transportation appliance anyway”.
There's no need to resort to antagonism here. "Extreme arrogance"? I've merely posted my opinions about the car, observations about what it appears others think (therefore, those are opinions :) ), and what it seems is important when people buy a car. I think we can both agree it is a variety of factors. I seriously doubt any meaningful number of folks would/will buy a value-oriented RWD sporty coupe ONLY on its looks. Styling is only one piece of the puzzle. If it's your major determinant in buying a car, hooray for you, that's your right. But I believe (opinion ;) ) you're in a small minority if so... since most Camaro buyers, IMO, are looking at the whole picture of what the car has to offer - performance, price, features, the driving experience, styling, quality, etc - in making their decision.

No Im not kidding at all. You cant start a thread with
....
and expect to be an unbiased poll. The news agencies do it all the time when they word their polls to get an intended outcome by the poll taker. Good data but taken with a grain of salt the same way a liberal would watching foxnews, or a conservative watching CNN.
EXACTLY. Thank You.
Thats exactly what this poll is a single biased poll. Im not saying that people who want a different interior are in the minority but this poll certainly doesnt prove that. How many times have you seen an online poll between import and domestic when someone shows up on the board and says, hey lets all vote for.... Some of the replies seem to suggest GM is required to respond to every poll or debate and thats crazy. If someone wants their poll to have a little more credibillity dont slant the polling...
Agreed.
I cant believe I missed this part and how out of context you misquoted shelby. Shelby would be insulted if you thought of Mustang as a secretaries car, If camaro becomes a secretary car you FAILED! When he refered to the Mustang as a "secretaries car" it was NOT a compliment. Im hoping someone told you about it and you didnt misconstru it that badly on your own. the correct quote was... Lee Iococa called me in 1964 right after the mustang came out and said we want to make a race car out of this. I said, I dont think it can be done, that thing is a secretaries car I dont think it could be done...
"I was proud of the hotrodders that put it together because what we did take something that WAS a secretaries car and turn it into something that was remembered 45 years later as a performance car RATHER than a secrateries car."


here is the link to Shelby himself saying the exact opposite of what you were so sure of. Mustang ceased to be a secretaries car when Shelby got involved. The second one is just a cool KR link.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2RBBsVckCY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8GynG0O2HY
Good point! Some very interesting history too.



Getting back on to the main thrust in this discussion... I was looking back thru this thread - and found this post which really hits the nail on the head IMHO:

I guess I'm part of the minority here. I know the concept interior can't make it to production due to cost, but I like the concept's interior. The outside of the car has a wonderful way of looking both modern and retro at the same time. I want the inside to carry over that same feel. Obviously it needs to be ergonomic and easy to live with, but that doesn't mean that it has to be like any/every other car interior out there. When I climb behind the wheel, I want to know I'm in a Camaro without having to get out and look at the car again. As far as the cockpit feel, if I want a Corvette interior, I'll buy a Corvette.

Bottom line for me is... tweak the concept's design to make it production ready and user friendly. Don't dump it in favor of something that is indistinguishable from a Miata, S2000, GTO, 300Z, Eclipse, etc.
I'm not so sure that's a minority position. I believe multitudes of potential Camaro buyers are going to feel this way, once they show up at a Chevy dealer and drive the new Camaro :bow:

In fact now that my push poll ("Should we wait" thread herein) has some responses - I can make a claim that since those disliking the interior are a minority there (vote is currently 19 - 7), that my thread refutes this one.



Well, since the sample size of the other poll is so much larger, I would not say that your poll refutes that one at all. However, since the result is now the opposite of what was found two years ago, what has changed? Why was the overwhelming result a call for a modern interior, and now it is the opposite?

Well, since the sample size of the other poll is so much larger, I would not say that your poll refutes that one at all. However, since the result is now the opposite of what was found two years ago, what has changed? Why was the overwhelming result a call for a modern interior, and now it is the opposite?
Easy. People have a sense of perspective now, about how the overall design fits together. C6 headlights come to mind. I recall the hurricane that ensued when the blogosphere first learned of those! But (as usual) the spy pix got out before GM had a chance to communicate their reasoning and perspective - including the devotion to limiting unnecessary mass. Once folks had that perspective, they were ok with the whole thing.

As for sample size, I'd argue I don't need as much of a big sample since we are now much closer to the car's release and there is less uncertainty about the overall design. People know now, for example, that the new Camaro will come with options for an A6 tranny, AFM V8's, and (if rumors are correct) even a HUD. All these and other features, make the car's styling less of a paramount issue.

Easy. People have a sense of perspective now, about how the overall design fits together. C6 headlights come to mind. I recall the hurricane that ensued when the blogosphere first learned of those! But (as usual) the spy pix got out before GM had a chance to communicate their reasoning and perspective - including the devotion to limiting unnecessary mass. Once folks had that perspective, they were ok with the whole thing.



Wasn't that poll taken after the camaro concept was revealed? If that is the case, then nothing really has changed. The exterior is very close, as is the interior, so perceptions should remain the same. Do people just want the Camaro to be here so badly that they are less critical now and willing to accept more? Or has time warmed people up to the design and they accept it now? Or something entirely different?

Wasn't that poll taken after the camaro concept was revealed? If that is the case, then nothing really has changed. The exterior is very close, as is the interior, so perceptions should remain the same. Do people just want the Camaro to be here so badly that they are less critical now and willing to accept more? Or has time warmed people up to the design and they accept it now? Or something entirely different?
Eh... maybe you misunderstand. I noticed you didn't quote my second paragraph above. I was making the case that my push poll doesn't need as big a sample size as the other push poll, to legitimately refute its results. This because more is known now about the production interior and the car overall and people are not as inclined to have a knee jerk about it (well, SOME aren't :rolleyes: )

Eh... maybe you misunderstand. I noticed you didn't quote my second paragraph above. I was making the case that my push poll doesn't need as big a sample size as the other push poll, to legitimately refute its results. This because more is known now about the production interior and the car overall and people are not as inclined to have a knee jerk about it (well, SOME aren't :rolleyes: )



So all of the respondants in the previous poll were all "knee-jerk" and now they are not, even though very little has changed. That makes no sense. Before it was modern vs retro and it was roughly 2-1 in favor of modern. So, now it is 2-1 for retro, so again, what really has changed? More information about engine choice and curb weight has no bearing on this at all. It is fair to say that people don't care anymore or don't mind a retro interior, but my point is, why has that shift taken place? Has anyone changed thier minds?

So all of the respondants in the previous poll were all "knee-jerk" and now they are not, even though very little has changed. That makes no sense. Before it was modern vs retro and it was roughly 2-1 in favor of modern. So, now it is 2-1 for retro, so again, what really has changed? More information about engine choice and curb weight has no bearing on this at all. It is fair to say that people don't care anymore or don't mind a retro interior, but my point is, why has that shift taken place? Has anyone changed thier minds?

I'd argue that yes, some have changed their minds. Maybe they have acquired the ability to see the forest instead of the trees....

Nonsense. Have you not seen, how I began the TWO sentences you commented upon, with "I believe"? I don't know how to make it any more clear, those are my opinions. It would be absurd to try and construe those as statements of fact. .

I agree that it would be absurd to state this as fact. You have stated multiple times in various post that the “majority of people like the interior”. I asked you point blank in a previous post what you were basing this on. You did not give a straight answer. Thank you for clearing it up that this is only your opinion.

I guess we're all doomed then ( :rolleyes: ). No one has objective numbers here, do they? In fact now that my push poll ("Should we wait" thread herein) has some responses - I can make a claim that since those disliking the interior are a minority there (vote is currently 19 - 7), that my thread refutes this one. .

Once again I agree. We don’t have objective numbers. Why quote numbers then? You seem to have a double standard with all of this. Those that dislike the interior must have perfect science and meet your specific criteria in order to a have a valid untainted opinion. You however are allowed to make conclusive statements backed by unsubstantiated values and then claim “opinion”. This may not be your intent. But it does come off that way.

I am not sure if you are being serious or sarcastic about your other poll? You really can not claim it refutes this one. It asks a totally different question. I have absolutely no-doubt that the majority of the people on this site will wait for the production car before deciding to purchase, regardless of which “deal breaker” issue they have. I would even vote to wait and my opinion of the interior is that they should scrap it all and start over!


Everyone's entitled to their opinion, as I've said. Unfortunately, some don't seem to think their opinions are allowed to be challenged or debated. Well, they are. Too bad if it bugs you, but I am allowed to comment on your opinions. If it's important to you, Of Course you can make it a factor in your decisions - I've not said you can't - but I can comment if I think it's mighty shortsighted to lose perspective on such things. .

You are free to do all of those things you stated. You are also free to discredit, ignore, and discount peoples opinions. You are even free to burry your head in the sand and pretend that everyone loves the interior (Oh wait that is what you are doing.) :D

There's no need to resort to antagonism here. "Extreme arrogance"? I've merely posted my opinions about the car, observations about what it appears others think (therefore, those are opinions :) ), and what it seems is important when people buy a car. I think we can both agree it is a variety of factors. I seriously doubt any meaningful number of folks would/will buy a value-oriented RWD sporty coupe ONLY on its looks. Styling is only one piece of the puzzle. If it's your major determinant in buying a car, hooray for you, that's your right. But I believe (opinion ;) ) you're in a small minority if so... since most Camaro buyers, IMO, are looking at the whole picture of what the car has to offer - performance, price, features, the driving experience, styling, quality, etc - in making their decision.

I apologize for being antagonistic (officially I am going with pissy and frustrated). It is not always easy to tell when you are giving opinion or fact. I never said that I buy on looks only. I never said that anyone buys on looks only. I said that looks are going to be high on some peoples buy criteria and it will be low on others. I personally believe it ranks very high on the list for a RWD sporty coupe i.e. Camaro.

No I’m not kidding at all. You cant start a thread withand expect to be an unbiased poll. The news agencies do it all the time when they word their polls to get an intended outcome by the poll taker. Good data but taken with a grain of salt the same way a liberal would watching foxnews, or a conservative watching CNN.

Thats exactly what this poll is a single biased poll. Im not saying that people who want a different interior are in the minority but this poll certainly doesnt prove that. How many times have you seen an online poll between import and domestic when someone shows up on the board and says, hey lets all vote for.... Some of the replies seem to suggest GM is required to respond to every poll or debate and thats crazy. If someone wants their poll to have a little more credibillity dont slant the polling.


I really do understand what you and BD&F are saying about the biased nature of this poll. In all my rants and raves on this topic, I have never quoted the numerical results of this pole. I have never claimed that it proves anything. And, I have never claimed that the interior haters are in the majority, despite the poll implying this very thing. The reason for this is that I do not trust the science of the poll either. I do think it has some value, however, and here is why.

1) Biased media type push polls are less of an influence on informed and knowledgeable people. Many on this site fall into that category in regards to automotive and camaro topics. Many are not easily swayed on their opinions.

2) This was not a blind phone survey or typical mail, email multiple choice poll. Many that voted posted their justification and reasoning for voting the way they did. This shows that they put some thought into their answers. They had a decisive opinion. It indicates that they were not just going with the crowd or just picking a choice to pick something.

3) This forum does not cater to one side of the topic or the other. Both sides are represented here. You could argue that there would be more of push to vote positively for the interior due to the positive reinforcement (push) that we get from some of our more distinguished visitors.

4) This pole indicates that the interior is very polarizing (term used by FBF also). There appears to be a significant number of people on both sides of the issue. This is the part I feel is valid because it can be supported by other sources of data outside of this website. I don’t feel it is accurate enough provide valid information on percentage or even majority.


Oh yeh, one more thing, I don’t expect GM to respond to every poll. They have in fact responded to the same issue that is demonstrated by this poll.

I really do understand what you and BD&F are saying about the biased nature of this poll. In all my rants and raves on this topic, I have never quoted the numerical results of this pole. I have never claimed that it proves anything. And, I have never claimed that the interior haters are in the majority, despite the poll implying this very thing. The reason for this is that I do not trust the science of the poll either. I do think it has some value, however, and here is why.

Oh yeh, one more thing, I don’t expect GM to respond to every poll. They have in fact responded to the same issue that is demonstrated by this poll.

This thread was started with

"I think we really need to communicate to Chevrolet our feelings on the concept's interior."

then later followed by another posters comment that

Has GM or Scott made a comment about the results of the poll?

I get the feeling some people pick a topic word a thread to get a desired result on their view and expect GM to respond.

I think it needs to be tweaked and probably will.
My whole point posting in this paticular thread and threads like this where Hey guys Im Starting a thread or poll on why "XYZ" sucks, lets see if GM cares enough to comment on or change this to what I like. This is one thread on many forums. Yes it gives some insight, but if you really want someone to take a look at your poll try to make an unbiased biased poll. The still dont have to or may not have time to, but if they come across it of the many polls and threads it gives it somewhat more credibility. Yes the wording makes a huge difference. This forum is no exception. There is another thread where someone is posting that because of the headlights/foglights hotglued into the grille of the camaro that quad headlights are being considered. We were already told they were not the correct headlights but othe people readily believe that poster.


4) This pole indicates that the interior is very polarizing (term used by FBF also). There appears to be a significant number of people on both sides of the issue. This is the part I feel is valid because it can be supported by other sources of data outside of this website. I don’t feel it is accurate enough provide valid information on percentage or even majority. .

Yeah the guys on that mustang site didnt seem to like what they saw. Id use a better source for reference...

Once again I agree. We don’t have objective numbers. Why quote numbers then? You seem to have a double standard with all of this. Those that dislike the interior must have perfect science and meet your specific criteria in order to a have a valid untainted opinion. You however are allowed to make conclusive statements backed by unsubstantiated values and then claim “opinion”. This may not be your intent. But it does come off that way.
It's useful when forming, and communicating opinions, to reference numbers (even if subjective numbers). I've not made ANY claims to have 'perfect science' here - and have gone out of my way to emphasize the limits of this, as well as my, polls herein as tools for measuring opinions. I'm sorry (truly, I'm not being cute), if I come off as making 'conclusive statements'. But that is within my rights.
I am not sure if you are being serious or sarcastic about your other poll? You really can not claim it refutes this one. It asks a totally different question. I have absolutely no-doubt that the majority of the people on this site will wait for the production car before deciding to purchase, regardless of which “deal breaker” issue they have. I would even vote to wait and my opinion of the interior is that they should scrap it all and start over!
I thought I had made it clear in the first post of my push poll herein - I do want people to vote sincerely (and it appears they have)... but that I was also 'illustrating absurdity by being absurd'. My push poll is meant to show how a pollster can affect poll results if they are clever and have an agenda. It's not meant as an editorial point just for you or for any other individual - but rather to help members here understand poll limits and metric performance factors. Coloring your poll in the FIRST post is a major factor affecting the 'performance' of a poll.

BTW - why can't I stake a claim my push poll refutes this push poll? It's myopic to say 'the majority will wait, regardless of their deal breaker' and then turn around and try to believe all these folks in here 'demanding a more modern interior' are not doing just that. What does 'demand' mean to you? Your statement above makes me think even you doubt the poll results of this thread... as well you should.
You are free to do all of those things you stated. You are also free to discredit, ignore, and discount peoples opinions. You are even free to burry your head in the sand and pretend that everyone loves the interior (Oh wait that is what you are doing.) :D
Now who's doing the oppressing? I've not discredited anyone. I'm sure every respondent to this poll (and mine) contributed sincerely. I respect all their opinions. But I feel an obligation to point out the circumstances under which they contributed... and those circumstances are not conducive to accurate measurement of un-influenced opinion.

I realize there are some who dislike the concept interior. (Who can possibly ignore them :rolleyes: ). That's their right. But chanting that to everyone else here is not going to yield a torch-waving mob for an assault on GM Headquarters.
I apologize for being antagonistic (officially I am going with pissy and frustrated). It is not always easy to tell when you are giving opinion or fact. I never said that I buy on looks only. I never said that anyone buys on looks only. I said that looks are going to be high on some peoples buy criteria and it will be low on others. I personally believe it ranks very high on the list for a RWD sporty coupe i.e. Camaro.
No problem. And you are right about how priorities are a very personal thing for a car buyer. My priorities (performance, value, features, quality) in my purchase tend to tower over other things like interior styling... but that's just me. Or is it?

Yeah the guys on that mustang site didnt seem to like what they saw. Id use a better source for reference...

Yeah, because after all, why would the Camaro team want to steal some Mustang sales.....

No. Don't like it at all.

I didn't like the concept interior, and I more than likely won't like the production interior.

BTW - why can't I stake a claim my push poll refutes this push poll? It's myopic to say 'the majority will wait, regardless of their deal breaker' and then turn around and try to believe all these folks in here 'demanding a more modern interior' are not doing just that. What does 'demand' mean to you? Your statement above makes me think even you doubt the poll results of this thread... as well you should.

The issue I have with this is the “wait choice”. I did not vote because of that. I do not like the interior of the concept car. If the production interior ends up being that unappealing to me, I will have difficulty buying this car. With that being the case, I will still ultimately wait and see. The reason for that is deep down I want to like this car. I want it to succeed. I have been waiting a long time. I want GM to get it right. So I will give it chance when it gets here. I still may not buy it because various issues, but I will wait and see. So you see if I were to vote on this poll, the honest answer would be to wait. That still hasn’t changed my opinion of the interior. That still hasn’t changed my position that I wish GM would redesign it. It still says nothing about whether I will buy this car.

I think many on this board will fall into this same situation. They may truly have “deal breaker” issues with this car. Regardless, I think most will still take a serious look at it when it gets here. They may still refuse to buy because of those issues.

If you ask me: "do I think I will purchase this car based on the apparent direction of the interior"? My honest answer is no. If you ask me: "will I wait for the production car to make by final decision", then the answer is yes. Those are two totally different questions.

Your poll has very little to do with interior opinions and more to do with whether people are willing to wait or walk away from a car unseen.

Yeah the guys on that mustang site didn’t seem to like what they saw. Id use a better source for reference...

It is funny that you mention this. I assume you are referring to the links found in the "5th gen" discussion forum.

Let’s look at that for a minute: Discussion starts with a big picture of the exterior. Most comments are specific to the picture they are seeing. There are no pictures shown of the interior, so we have know idea how many posters have even seen it.

I counted 6 specific comments about the interior: All negative!

Better Sources? lol

The issue I have with this is the “wait choice”. I did not vote because of that. I do not like the interior of the concept car. If the production interior ends up being that unappealing to me, I will have difficulty buying this car. With that being the case, I will still ultimately wait and see. The reason for that is deep down I want to like this car. I want it to succeed. I have been waiting a long time. I want GM to get it right. So I will give it chance when it gets here. I still may not buy it because various issues, but I will wait and see. So you see if I were to vote on this poll, the honest answer would be to wait. That still hasn’t changed my opinion of the interior. That still hasn’t changed my position that I wish GM would redesign it. It still says nothing about whether I will buy this car.

I think many on this board will fall into this same situation. They may truly have “deal breaker” issues with this car. Regardless, I think most will still take a serious look at it when it gets here. They may still refuse to buy because of those issues.

If you ask me: "do I think I will purchase this car based on the apparent direction of the interior"? My honest answer is no. If you ask me: "will I wait for the production car to make by final decision", then the answer is yes. Those are two totally different questions.

Your poll has very little to do with interior opinions and more to do with whether people are willing to wait or walk away from a car unseen.
Egads - I'm amazed then, you did not vote 'wait' in my poll. You just said, just now, you plan to wait and see! That is EXACTLY what I've been pointing out. Why are you going to 'wait and see'? Why not just rule it out right now?

I'll tell you why. I believe (that's opinion ;) ) that like other rational buyers - you don't expect there to be a lot of change between what is known now about the interior, and the final interior. People in your situation know there will be quite a few options not already seen (such as the widely rumored HUD, maybe a nav unit as well), that will show up in the production car. You already know the new Camaro will be a great RWD performance value, its exterior styling is magnificent, and it will likely have great quality as is now seen in the C6 and the new Malibu. Plus you realize that interiors are meant to be OPERATED, not STARED AT. Overall, these factors will most likely counterbalance any negatives felt by the average 2010 Camaro buyer. So it's only natural, you will wait and see before deciding :)

Egads - I'm amazed then, you did not vote 'wait' in my poll. You just said, just now, you plan to wait and see! That is EXACTLY what I've been pointing out. Why are you going to 'wait and see'? Why not just rule it out right now?

I'll tell you why. I believe (that's opinion ;) ) that like other rational buyers - you don't expect there to be a lot of change between what is known now about the interior, and the final interior. People in your situation know there will be quite a few options not already seen (such as the widely rumored HUD, maybe a nav unit as well), that will show up in the production car. You already know the new Camaro will be a great RWD performance value, its exterior styling is magnificent, and it will likely have great quality as is now seen in the C6 and the new Malibu. Plus you realize that interiors are meant to be OPERATED, not STARED AT. Overall, these factors will most likely counterbalance any negatives felt by the average 2010 Camaro buyer. So it's only natural, you will wait and see before deciding :)

You are killing me! I just gave you a detailed explanation as to why I said I would wait. Why in hell would I need you to tell me why. Did you read anything I said? Apparently you missed the part where I said I would not buy the car if I hated the interior.

Plus you realize that interiors are meant to be OPERATED, not STARED AT.

Soooo...please explain how the Camaro interior, as it sits now, is so easy to operate with gauges on the floor (although that's a great spot for something as rice-tastic as a "torque gauge"), tiny retro font on the speedo and tach and completely weird Sega Genesis radio/HVAC controls. Oh yeah, optional HUD (which I'd have to pay several hundred more dollars for) will clear up all the apparently poor functional design choices made inside this car. I forgot.

Just asking.

Soooo...please explain how the Camaro interior, as it sits now, is so easy to operate with gauges on the floor (although that's a great spot for something as rice-tastic as a "torque gauge"), tiny retro font on the speedo and tach and completely weird Sega Genesis radio/HVAC controls. Oh yeah, optional HUD (which I'd have to pay several hundred more dollars for) will clear up all the apparently poor functional design choices made inside this car. I forgot.

Just asking.
1. As for the console gauges. Are any critical, look-at-it-constantly parameters down there? MAYBE oil pressure (although that's iffy, on modern cars it's either 'all-ok' or 'all-too-late'). The other stuff - do you seriously fuss over your bus voltage? No? So why are you so worried about such numbers being front and center.
2. Speedo - totally negated by a HUD. If a couple hundred bux is too much for you to spend on a HUD - better not buy a stout V8 car of any flavor either. Fuel costs, you know.
3. Tach - I won't be using mine on my A6 car to begin with. When I drive manual cars, I shift by sound and feel. I have my eyes on the road a LOT more than on gauges/tach. However - its also possible the HUD (assuming there is one, as rumored) will have that cool little tach curve like the Corvette's HUD :cool:

2. Speedo - totally negated by a HUD. If a couple hundred bux is too much for you to spend on a HUD - better not buy a stout V8 car of any flavor either. Fuel costs, you know.

Nah, I'm just wondering why you'd bother to have an analog speedometer at all, if you're going to design it to be so utterly useless.

3. Tach - I won't be using mine on my A6 car to begin with. When I drive manual cars, I shift by sound and feel.

I have never come across a performance car that had a tachometer which was considered "too unimportant" to be easily read. :confused: In many performance cars, the tach is actually the largest gauge, front and center. I suppose that is because it is either completely unnecessary or all those other guys don't know how to drive, we Camaro guys do. I just don't know what to say anymore.

If all the gauges you listed (voltometer, oil pressure, speedo and tach) are unimportant, why not just have a big void on the dash and do everything through HUD? At least it would make more sense (and probably save cost!) than to build in such gimmicky ridiculousness like what I see in those gauge pods.

My Take On The Interior As Follows The Center Stack In The Dash Is Too
"busy" . Take A Cue From The 67-68. Design . Also I Would Like Too See
Chevy Bring Back The Houndstooth Interior Back For The Rs Option .

Love the current interior, just give us the HUD!

i hate the interior with a passion if i bought this car it would all go before i get it home i will not drive a single day with that junk look.

this car is a car i wanted so bad but i think i will wait a couple years to see if they would make somthing much nicer.

beautiful exterior, hate the interior something bad!

when i go to car show and see old cars with a kiss of modern design and the interior is space age. luxury meets formula 1 cars is what i like.

if the guaging was holographic all voice command. but have a stering will that has many controles like radio gears breaks.

tap manual gearbox and many hidden compartments like you would modern cars or minivan to be silly.

why do muscle cars refuse to add an ounce of luxury?

my dream commaro would see me come and say "nice to see you again kevin, shall we go for a ride?" then the doors auto pop open and car starts.

then i put on my helmet and run to the track and bring an extra set of tires so i practice my drifting in my new luxury commaro.

i go big with my wheels i have a sterio that can make your heart skip and hair dance, i have a train horn and a pa system. and i have under carrage lighting for glow effects.

why cant i get all this in 1 place? :(

i want a murial of autobot symbole on my yellow commaro and i want some very loud pin sriping and role bars for my soft top.

you think im kidding no!!!

please somone inform me who i can turn to to get a whole new iterior because to keep my language clean i put it like this....

I HATE THE INTERIOR WITH A PASSION!!!!!!!!!!!!

No offense, but how old are we now?

You sound like a teenager talking about a futuristic wet dream.

I suppose you would also like your Camaro to transform into Bumble Bee also, right?

If it's your dream car at least learn how to spell C-a-m-a-r-o.

Most of the things you are talking about are just silly.

Commaro. :lol:

It's a good thing that the word camaro isn't written all over this cite...otherwise it would be really embarrassing. You know what would be really bad...if the name of the cite had the word camaro....Anywho I love the interior. I like the retro feel but yet you have some modern aspects.

No offense, but how old are we now?

You sound like a teenager talking about a futuristic wet dream.

I suppose you would also like your Camaro to transform into Bumble Bee also, right?

If it's your dream car at least learn how to spell C-a-m-a-r-o.

Most of the things you are talking about are just silly.

Amen. Agreed.

i still dont understand why theres so much hate for this car from so many aspects. everyone acts like this car has the worst interior ever. i think its probably going to be the best interior in a camaro yet. way better than the **** interiors that preceded it! all these people that are so quick to dislike this car will be the first to want to buy one when they start seeing more of them and a few freinds and acquiantances of theirs buy one!

i still dont understand why theres so much hate for this car from so many aspects. everyone acts like this car has the worst interior ever. i think its probably going to be the best interior in a camaro yet. way better than the **** interiors that preceded it! all these people that are so quick to dislike this car will be the first to want to buy one when they start seeing more of them and a few freinds and acquiantances of theirs buy one!

I agree! I loved my '98 SS, which I sold a few years ago, but now when I look back at pics of the interior of that car the '10 SS is WAY better...night and day!

Is this still going on? :freakout:

Sadly yes. The only reason I'm posting this post, is well because you have the best quote for your signature. lol

Don't know about the seats, but I definitely do not like the gauges and steering wheel. Too much bling; too Lost in Space-looking for me.

I have always owned an f body both trans am and camaro.The new camaro's interior i don't like.I think gm could have done better.The exterior is another story I LOVE IT.

You know what would be great??
If we could have a customizable, virtual dashboard, or at least a few optional "virtual" dashboards to choose from.
And maybe a virtual HUD..
Like this: w/o the window ofcourse..


http://www.palmerperformance.com/screenshots/new/pcmscan_gauges_small.png

Only, be able to move things around to our liking...lcd display.
How much $$ ?

SUPER RICER. I know my ricers, thats something you find in a Nissan Skyline GT-R, Not a Camaro.... :lol:

Personally in a Muscle car, I could care less if the seats were made of wood, and the steering wheel out of a 16th century ship. Those cars have the looks to make any man drool, and have the rumble to scare the weak away.

Upon seeing the car in person, I love the interior even more. In fact I wish I liked the exterior (especially the rear) of the new Camaro as much as the front...

I don't get some people here. The first 3 Gens of the Camaro had distinct interiors, when you got inside you knew what kind of car you were in. Then, the 4th Gens come along with a plain, bland, run of the mill interior that looked like it could have came out of any 90s boremobile. Now, the 5th has gone back to the original formula, it has tons of Camaro cues and cannot be mistaken for anything else but a Camaro. I honestly don't know how people can say they absolutely hate the interior of this car, especially after seeing or sitting in it in person. If you haven't, I suggest you do before you make a decision, the same goes for the exterior, chances are your opinion will change because pictures really don't do the car justice.