Z284ever 08-25-2005, 10:10 AM Hyundai's RWD replacement for the '08/'09 Tiburon will not only come in coupe but also convertible. The coupe was discussed here several months ago.
It is also reported that Kia will get a version of this car. At this point, it's unclear if it will be a conventional coupe/convertible like the Tiburon replacement or if it will be a sporty RWD crossover like the Kia Slice concept.http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com/media/2003/naias/kia.kcd1.slice/kia.kcd1.slice.prof.500.jpg
Expect these cars to have really modern proportions, with their wheels pushed to the corners. They will probably have a wheelbase several inches longer than Mustang and yet be 8"-10" shorter in overall length.
Two different V6's will be available. But Hyundai will also have a new V8 ready (right now for other products), in that time frame.
Things are going to get interesting.......
Darth Xed 08-25-2005, 10:15 AM It's still very hard to take Hyundai (or Kia) as a serious threat in this segment, no matter what the car is like.
Hyundai and Kia are not exactly drooled over brands from muscle car fans, and even the import crowd really doesn't get into either brand.
We'll see how it goes, I guess... but, right or wrong, I'm not all that concerned about it.... and I don't care about it at all as far as considering one for myself.
Z284ever 08-25-2005, 10:18 AM Oh, and here's a shot of Hyundai's 2007 RWD, luxury sedan.
http://www.carspyshots.net/zerothread?id=16038
It will have an optional V8, rumored to be in the 300-350hp range.
Z284ever 08-25-2005, 10:20 AM It's still very hard to take Hyundai (or Kia) as a serious threat in this segment, no matter what the car is like.
Hyundai and Kia are not exactly drooled over brands from muscle car fans, and even the import crowd really doesn't get into either brand.
We'll see how it goes, I guess... but, right or wrong, I'm not all that concerned about it.... and I don't care about it at all as far as considering one for myself.
Don't underestimate them Darth. :no:
Darth Xed 08-25-2005, 10:25 AM Don't underestimate them Darth. :no:
As I was typing in my reply... I thought about all the underestimating the domestics did of the Japanese imports in the 70's and the result of that.
Even still, I can't help but feel that way... it's just how I honestly feel.
Look at the truck market... Toyota, Honda and Nissan have been trying to gain a "real" presence in that market for a loooong time... and we are talking about, IMO, and even MORE loyal group in muscle car enthusiasts... and we aren't even talking about Toyota, Nissan, or Honda... it's Hyundai and Kia! :eek:
To me, it's not even a blip on the radar screen.
EDIT: FWIW.. Nissan's 350Z hasn't exactly revolutionaized the RWD sporty car segment by selling a billion units... and I'd feel a LOT more threatened by Nissan than Hyundai.
As I was typing in my reply... I thought about all the underestimating the domestics did of the Japanese imports in the 70's and the result of that.
Even still, I can't help but feel that way... it's just how I honestly feel.
Look at the truck market... Toyota, Honda and Nissan have been trying to gain a "real" presence in that market for a loooong time... and we are talking about, IMO, and even MORE loyal group in muscle car enthusiasts... and we aren't even talking about Toyoya, Nissan, or Honda... it's Hyundai and Kia! :eek:
To me, it's not even a blip on the radar screen.
EDIT: FWIW.. Nissan's 350Z hasn't exactly revolutionaized teh RWD sporty car segment by selling a billion units... and I'd feel a LOT more threatened by Nissan than Hyundai.
The Japanese were able to make significant inroads into the car market because the domestics at that time had pretty crappy products. However when it comes to trucks, the Big 2 now have pretty solid entries so there's less reason for consumers to switch. Plus as you mention truck buyers tend to more loyal, and more rural (where there's fewer import dealerships).
It's interesting you mention the 350Z. I think that's the car that will suffer most if the Hyundai is a good product. They'll both be aiming at roughly the same target market of young import-intenders. But it's still a great strategy for Hyundai to try to get their foot in the door of RWD performance coupes. The Gen-Y kids who have no built-in bias towards Camaros or Mustangs will probably welcome it, and it will help to establish Hyundai in the performance market.
Chrome383Z 08-25-2005, 10:49 AM Thing with Hyundai - they will probably be one of hte Lower cost V8's in the market.
jrp4uc 08-25-2005, 12:54 PM It'll be interesting to see what they come up with. Good point on affordability of a V8.
They should call it the Hyundai SS Type R ;-)
Jason E 08-25-2005, 12:59 PM I don't underestimate Hyundai at all. I just wish GM would get off their dumbass and match their warranty. Think about it...if you offered a 5/60 B to B and a powertrain 10 yr 100k warranty, will $2k in things break? Not likely. So if you offered a $1k rebate and a 10 yr warranty, GM makes more $$, resale is higher and the buyer would probably be just as happy.
Think about it...the warranty program is really what got Hyundai to where it is now. Until the new Sonata, the cars were never all that competitive!
Z28Wilson 08-25-2005, 01:18 PM Hmmm...so if the next Camaro lives up to Charlie's worst nightmares in regards to length and girth, could a new Hyundai be parked in his garage? :eek:
muckz 08-25-2005, 01:24 PM Red = Nissan
Trexx = Toyota/Lexus
? Charlie = Hyundai ?
:D :cool:
poSSum 08-25-2005, 01:25 PM I've only looked at and driven the Sportage/Tucson twins and found them to be very competent in their segment. I'd think there is a very good possibility that if they put the same effort into their coupes they will steal sales from the domestics.
Chrome383Z 08-25-2005, 01:28 PM The only thing that will make it interesting is I don't know how the "Tuner" market will support a V8 that they are currently totally against...
They've always been about getting more power out of their 4 and 6cylinders and hated V8's with a passion. Will they evolve? Or will these sit on the lots? Time will tell.
Z28Wilson 08-25-2005, 01:32 PM The only thing that will make it interesting is I don't know how the "Tuner" market will support a V8 that they are currently totally against...
They've always been about getting more power out of their 4 and 6cylinders and hated V8's with a passion.
That's a bit unfair. There actually are some "Tuners"/import kids who respect and appreciate higher displacement, V8 performance. The board at clubsi.com had been buzzing for a while after the introduction of the new Z06 and the LS7 (uhh, I was just curious what the "other side" had to say about it, I'm not a member or frequent visitor, trust me. :) )
Chrome383Z 08-25-2005, 01:36 PM Oh I'm sure there's some. And maybe it's a lack of choice for a V8 with their imports that makes them so against the V8; I dunno... lol
But every "tuner" i've dealt with would prefer a 4 or 6 with a Turbo over a V8 anyday. Although, maybe we just need to change their thinking to a V8 w/ a Turbo... ;)
RussStang 08-25-2005, 02:50 PM Hmmm...so if the next Camaro lives up to Charlie's worst nightmares in regards to length and girth, could a new Hyundai be parked in his garage? :eek:
I hope that scenario doesn't come to pass. There would be quite alot of iron though.
The only thing that will make it interesting is I don't know how the "Tuner" market will support a V8 that they are currently totally against...
They've always been about getting more power out of their 4 and 6cylinders and hated V8's with a passion. Will they evolve? Or will these sit on the lots? Time will tell.
No, most of the "Tuner" crowd are a bunch of idiots with hand me down cars that they sink minimal money into purchasing a slew of trendy mods that never net them any power anyway, and suddenly think they are the fastest things on the roads. Most of them are either older teenagers or really young adults, and for most of them it is a phase they will grow out of, because there interest in cars is only a passing fancy.
I have a few friends who are real import enthusiasts, and your statement about them not liking v8s is too broad. The real performance guys all have their own ideas and concepts about what an engine should be, so I don't think a v8 Hyundai would turn many of them off at all. I know an import guy who likes to turbocharge anything, he has had 3 turbo import cars and wants to try turboing a cheap v8, probably a 5.0 Mustang foxbody.
Since when was the Tiburon ever a hot car in the "import" scene anyway?
3rdGenNut 08-25-2005, 03:27 PM My wife just traded in her Integra for a Tiburon GT. I gotta say I like it.
It even rattles and creeks like my Camaro(just not as loud) so I feel right at home when I drive it. Their pony car will fit right in.
Chuck! 08-25-2005, 04:04 PM If we end up with a Hyundai pony car before we end up with a new Camaro... :no:
If we end up with a Hyundai pony car before we end up with a new Camaro... :no:
Timing wise, I'd put my money on Hyundai. :(
Chrome383Z 08-25-2005, 06:52 PM I hope that scenario doesn't come to pass. There would be quite alot of iron though.
No, most of the "Tuner" crowd are a bunch of idiots with hand me down cars that they sink minimal money into purchasing a slew of trendy mods that never net them any power anyway, and suddenly think they are the fastest things on the roads. Most of them are either older teenagers or really young adults, and for most of them it is a phase they will grow out of, because there interest in cars is only a passing fancy.
I have a few friends who are real import enthusiasts, and your statement about them not liking v8s is too broad. The real performance guys all have their own ideas and concepts about what an engine should be, so I don't think a v8 Hyundai would turn many of them off at all. I know an import guy who likes to turbocharge anything, he has had 3 turbo import cars and wants to try turboing a cheap v8, probably a 5.0 Mustang foxbody.
Since when was the Tiburon ever a hot car in the "import" scene anyway?
I said "Tuner" market. I agree /real/ import enthusiasts are ok - but what segment is larger? I would think the Young kids/adults would be - but maybe not...
TrackMagicWS6 08-25-2005, 07:41 PM Timing wise, I'd put my money on Hyundai. :(
thats Hilarious if GM can't make a Camaro, before freaking Hyundai makes a pony car thats screwey, maybe the hyundai will atleast have strong enough window motors..
turbo96z28 08-25-2005, 08:36 PM i don't think GM will let this one slide, call me optomistic. of all the people in the world, i think Red would personally sell his soul just to get a Camaro to market before any Hyundai does.
Z284ever 08-26-2005, 02:31 PM Hmmm...so if the next Camaro lives up to Charlie's worst nightmares in regards to length and girth, could a new Hyundai be parked in his garage? :eek:
Boy, I don't know about that!
Maybe a G35 coupe though....
But wouldn't it be terrible (for us that is), if Hyundai comes out with a much more sporty and contemporary ponycar than Camaro!?!? You know what? Someone's head would have to roll if that happened! I am really not kidding.
One thing I'm pretty sure of though. You'll be able to buy a new Hyundai ponycar before a Chevy one. :(
Evil Turbo SS 08-26-2005, 03:35 PM It seems they will have RWD sedans out before chevy/pontiac as well.
Everyone here keeps saying that GM is going to make a turn around. But Its going to be to little to late. The Cobalt is good but not better than any of the import offerings.(I'm not talking about the SS) The Vette and Z06 are awsome cars but nothing in the bread and butter car lines for GM stands out.
GM is to late with RWD. DCX has beaten them to it by a lot. The Koreans might beat them to it as well. Ford/Mazda/Volovo already have some great AWD platforms. Just seems like GM will be late to the party with good cars that will linger in the market way longer than they should.
Nothing has changed at GM. They are still late to market with any cars that matter. Yes they have pulled off some Halo cars (solstice/vette/ssr) Didnt work for plymouth. Same old GM.
3rdGenNut 08-26-2005, 04:48 PM So here how I see this shaking out.
Mustang 300 hp 26k (are they nuts)
Hundai pony 350 hp 23k (youll need the waranty)
Challenger 350 hp 28k (always overpriced)
Camaro 400 hp 25k (hopefully)
Hands down, everybody buys a Camaro.
RussStang 08-26-2005, 05:15 PM One thing I'm pretty sure of though. You'll be able to buy a new Hyundai ponycar before a Chevy one. :(
WOW. That is just unacceptable.
It seems they will have RWD sedans out before chevy/pontiac as well.
Everyone here keeps saying that GM is going to make a turn around. But Its going to be to little to late. The Cobalt is good but not better than any of the import offerings.(I'm not talking about the SS) The Vette and Z06 are awsome cars but nothing in the bread and butter car lines for GM stands out.
GM is to late with RWD. DCX has beaten them to it by a lot. The Koreans might beat them to it as well. Ford/Mazda/Volovo already have some great AWD platforms. Just seems like GM will be late to the party with good cars that will linger in the market way longer than they should.
Nothing has changed at GM. They are still late to market with any cars that matter. Yes they have pulled off some Halo cars (solstice/vette/ssr) Didnt work for plymouth. Same old GM.
This is all very true. Something has to give at GM. This is just unbelievable. All of these cool new products that GM needs to survive are coming out way too late to the party. By the time GM has turned around, everyone will have turned 3 ore 4 times. The problem isn't future product. It is getting that future product to the present in a timely fashion.
RussStang 08-26-2005, 05:20 PM So here how I see this shaking out.
Mustang 300 hp 26k (are they nuts)
Hundai pony 350 hp 23k (youll need the waranty)
Challenger 350 hp 28k (always overpriced)
Camaro 400 hp 25k (hopefully)
Hands down, everybody buys a Camaro.
You list is not a realistic one.
First off, in just a few years the Mustang is getting a power bump, although to how much I know not. I can't see the Hyundai coming out with a 350hp engine in their base v8 car. Maybe they will surprise us, but I don't see this happening.
I really, really doubt our base v8 Camaro will be making 400hp, way too close to the Vette at that price point, not to mention how many of these new Camaros will be wrapped around trees and telephone poles.
I can easily see the Challenger and the Camaro being extremely close and competitive in hp figures. The Hemi is very similiar in design to the LS series motors. I can't imagine it being a very expensive engine to build, not to mention how many cars and trucks they have put it in across all of their brands to help absorb the cost. No, I do not think the Challenger will be overpriced. Nothing else at Chrysler seems to be (except for maybe the Crossfire.)
3rdGenNut 08-26-2005, 06:10 PM Its just a guesstimate, who know when this stuff will hit the streets.
I'm just going off what I see right now.
First off, in just a few years the Mustang is getting a power bump, although to how much I know not.
10 - 15 hp doesnt count, it needs cubes!!
I can't see the Hyundai coming out with a 350hp engine in their base v8 car. Maybe they will surprise us, but I don't see this happening.
They want to be a contender, it will be close.
I really, really doubt our base v8 Camaro will be making 400hp, way too close to the Vette at that price point, not to mention how many of these new Camaros will be wrapped around trees and telephone poles.
Thats the kind of thinking that got GM to where it is today, and part of the reason Camaro is D.E.D.(phenetics :) )
I can easily see the Challenger and the Camaro being extremely close and competitive in hp figures.
DCX will make the SRT/8 the leader or they wont make it. I'm talkin' entry level.
The Hemi is very similiar in design to the LS series motors. I can't imagine it being a very expensive engine to build, not to mention how many cars and trucks they have put it in across all of their brands to help absorb the cost. No, I do not think the Challenger will be overpriced. Nothing else at Chrysler seems to be (except for maybe the Crossfire.)
I really have to be obsessed to spend 30k on anything. The only thing DCX has under 30 is the srt-4, but even my wife cant be talked into a 4 door. :)
Whew, I hate defending my opinoins.
Evil Turbo SS 08-26-2005, 06:26 PM There is more "excitement" at a Subaru dealer than at Pontiac and Chevy. (Im mean the bred and butter cars) Every car/truck they sell now has a turbo/manual trans option with the exception of that new SUV thing. Hell, the Forester has 230HP, AWD and comes in at 3350 lbs and runs mid 14s. Its classified as a small truck for heavens sake. They turned down the trailblazer platform to make there truck, but it was good enough for Saab? I love my Camaro, I love Vettes and I even Like the SSR. None of them our every day drivers. I hope the Solstice and sky sell well and spawn a affordable, chaep fun Sunfire replacement.
GM needs to Downsize.
Caddy
Hummer
Chevy
Saturn or Pontiac....
Thats it....... Dump GMC, Saturn or Pontiac, SAAB now that its just another Pontiac and Buick and what ever intrest it has in Fiat ect...
RussStang 08-26-2005, 06:42 PM 10 - 15 hp doesnt count, it needs cubes!!
I agree.
They want to be a contender, it will be close.
As long as they can keep the price down. I don't know what kind of engine Hyundai plans on using, but making it overly complicated and costly (much like the modular 4.6) is going to lead to prohibitive hp levels.
Thats the kind of thinking that got GM to where it is today, and part of the reason Camaro is D.E.D.(phenetics :) )
I would love to see a 400hp base model, probably more than almost anyone else on this board. I still don't think it is going to happen, unless Ford really bumps there hp levels up.
DCX will make the SRT/8 the leader or they wont make it. I'm talkin' entry level.
I am talking entry level too. I still think anything GM throws out, DCX can do too. They have a great platform to build the Challenger on as far as price for components go, and their engines are cheap to build and easy to get HP out of.
Here is my take on what we might see for entry level.
Mustang: 320-330 Hp
Tibby (or whatever it ends up being): probably around Mustang levels, as I am sure the Mustang will be benchmark for it, due to the Mustangs popularity.
Camaro: 355 initially, maybe a slight bump afterward.
Challenger: around 350 as well, maybe alittle more.
I think as far as entry level pony cars go, the dead heat will be between the Challenger and the Camaro.
Evil Turbo SS 08-26-2005, 06:51 PM I agree.
As long as they can keep the price down. I don't know what kind of engine Hyundai plans on using, but making it overly complicated and costly (much like the modular 4.6) is going to lead to prohibitive hp levels.
I would love to see a 400hp base model, probably more than almost anyone else on this board. I still don't think it is going to happen, unless Ford really bumps there hp levels up.
I am talking entry level too. I still think anything GM throws out, DCX can do too. They have a great platform to build the Challenger on as far as price for components go, and their engines are cheap to build and easy to get HP out of.
Here is my take on what we might see for entry level.
Mustang: 320-330 Hp
Tibby (or whatever it ends up being): probably around Mustang levels, as I am sure the Mustang will be benchmark for it, due to the Mustangs popularity.
Camaro: 355 initially, maybe a slight bump afterward.
Challenger: around 350 as well, maybe alittle more.
I think as far as entry level pony cars go, the dead heat will be between the Challenger and the Camaro.
The aftermarket is making more power with Fords modular motors than the gen III/IV so far.
RussStang 08-26-2005, 06:54 PM The aftermarket is making more power with Fords modular motors than the gen III/IV so far.
Better let the aftermarket build Ford's motors for them then, because they aren't bringing the goods in NA factory trim.
Evil Turbo SS 08-26-2005, 07:19 PM Who said it had to be n/a? Buyers dont care. Power is power. The Ford GT is a badd ass car even with the s/c on it. MB's AMG division better stop using S/Cs and turbos on some of the offerings thay have. THEY MAKE motors of less than 7L with a power ader making more than the rumored 600hp blown LS7.
GM has let the aftermarket build some of there more notable motors. GM had mercury marine build there LT5 and the Sy/Ty motors were farmed out as well.
Z284ever 08-26-2005, 07:26 PM So here how I see this shaking out.
Mustang 300 hp 26k (are they nuts)
Hundai pony 350 hp 23k (youll need the waranty)
Challenger 350 hp 28k (always overpriced)
Camaro 400 hp 25k (hopefully)
Hands down, everybody buys a Camaro.
Forget a new 400 hp anything for 25K. And as far as the Hyundai RWD coupe, there is no indication that it will have that much power. However, the upcoming '07 Hyundai RWD luxury sedan will have an available V8. This architecture is what the RWD Tiburon will be loosely based on.
turbo96z28 08-26-2005, 08:04 PM i agree with Z284ever on power levels. everyone is probably gonna stay close to each other on their entry level models. the thing i'm most curious about is how special editions will play into the fold. what if Hyundai can do a 375-400hp SE under $30K??? that would definetley give them a little edge on the domestics. Hyundai sees an opportunity to get in on the Mustangs success, but are they as commited to the pony car formula as the domestics are?
Z284ever 08-26-2005, 10:29 PM Here's some more on Hyundai's '07 RWD sedan.
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Features/articleId=106903
Z284ever 08-26-2005, 10:39 PM And here's another look at the HCD-8 concept, which is said to be a tease of the next gen RWD Tiburon.
http://www.edmunds.com/news/autoshow/articles/100916/page044.html
97z28/m6 08-27-2005, 07:25 AM And here's another look at the HCD-8 concept, which is said to be a tease of the next gen RWD Tiburon.
http://www.edmunds.com/news/autoshow/articles/100916/page044.html
wow a hatchback, what a nifty idea. :D
Z284ever 08-27-2005, 08:37 AM wow a hatchback, what a nifty idea. :D
The "three door" body has already been publicly confirmed by Hyundai officials.
97z28/m6 08-27-2005, 09:06 AM The "three door" body has already been publicly confirmed by Hyundai officials.now all they have to do is put a V8 in it.
turbo96z28 08-27-2005, 05:24 PM am i crazy, or are those actually really nice interiors for a hyundai???
JP2005 08-28-2005, 01:45 AM It's still very hard to take Hyundai (or Kia) as a serious threat in this segment, no matter what the car is like.
Hyundai and Kia are not exactly drooled over brands from muscle car fans, and even the import crowd really doesn't get into either brand.
We'll see how it goes, I guess... but, right or wrong, I'm not all that concerned about it.... and I don't care about it at all as far as considering one for myself.
im not going to lie i will consider it when i go to buy my next car
the cars i will most likely consider:
year car
08-09 camaro*new*
09-10 trans am*i wish*
08/-09 challenger*if available*
08-09 hcd8*new*
06-07 shelby cobra*used 06 or so*
04*z06*-05c6* corvette*used*
FutureZMan 08-28-2005, 11:22 AM And here's another look at the HCD-8 concept, which is said to be a tease of the next gen RWD Tiburon.
http://www.edmunds.com/news/autoshow/articles/100916/page044.html
I'd buy it.
Diognes56 08-28-2005, 04:22 PM And here's another look at the HCD-8 concept, which is said to be a tease of the next gen RWD Tiburon.
http://www.edmunds.com/news/autoshow/articles/100916/page044.html
http://www.machinedesign.com/Content/Issue/10640/HyundaiHCD8.jpg
That thing looks like a rejected 350Z concept.
http://www.rsportscars.com/foto/08/nismo350z_03_800.jpg
David
FutureZMan 08-28-2005, 04:47 PM http://www.machinedesign.com/Content/Issue/10640/HyundaiHCD8.jpg
That thing looks like a rejected 350Z concept.
http://www.rsportscars.com/foto/08/nismo350z_03_800.jpg
David
Im sorry that Hyundai concept looks like it would make the 350Z fear dropping the soap.
outright awesome car, considering its source.
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