Delay on 05 GTO?

Umm, where are the 05's? I have been looking for infoi. I just saw an 05 "pilot" car at the Central Florida Intl. Auto show, but the dude said that 05's wont even be shipped till the end of january? Anyone got any reasoning behind this?

They are still set to make it to the U.S. towards the end of December/first of January. Lilke last year when the '04's arrived.

GM decided to start building the '06's in July though of next year, so we don't have to wait months for them.

05 regular production vehicles starting shipping earlier this month. Official on-sale date for the 05's is supposed to be December 20. I would expect wide availability by the end of January. Since the 06 will be "lame duck" model (last model year for this version) they apparently will begin production in June/July to get them to dealers in August/September and leave open the possiblity of a longer production year in case the all-new 07 is delayed.

They are still set to make it to the U.S. towards the end of December/first of January. Lilke last year when the '04's arrived.

GM decided to start building the '06's in July though of next year, so we don't have to wait months for them.

So the 2005's will drop in the middle of winter? That's exactly when the 2004s hit the ground. It seems they've learned very little.

If GM skipped the 2005 model year for the GTO, the 6-month hiatus until the arrival of the 2006s would be fairly painless for the dealers. Perhaps it would allow for a second, more successful product launch. They could even pull the incentives on left-over 2004 GTOs - something that would have a very positive effect on resale value and product image.

The '04's are/were a wash out and GM can only blame themselves. The styling was slammed from day 1. The price was out of reach for people that would buy the vehicle, and the power was just not there. I'm only guessing but with the late '05 build could probably be chalked up to more testing, or poor logistics as last years build. As was mentioned by myself and routesixtysixer, the '06's (which will remain essentially unchanged from the '05's) will start their build in June/July.

At the dealership I work at, we've been without the GTO for months now, but we'll be getting the first of the '05's and that's late December.

The '04's are/were a wash out and GM can only blame themselves. The styling was slammed from day 1. The price was out of reach for people that would buy the vehicle, and the power was just not there. I'm only guessing but with the late '05 build could probably be chalked up to more testing, or poor logistics as last years build. As was mentioned by myself and routesixtysixer, the '06's (which will remain essentially unchanged from the '05's) will start their build in June/July.

You missed the U.S. Dollar's fall compared to the Aussie dollar. Between the currency squeeze, increased content for 2005 and the posibility (probability?) of very large incentives, someone at GM must be wondering about the profitability of the GTO. Faced with the prospect of selling GTOs with a $3,500 rebate, you have to wonder if the product plan looks much healthier than the F-bodys' did.


At the dealership I work at, we've been without the GTO for months now, but we'll be getting the first of the '05's and that's late December.

Would an extra 6 months+ wait for the 2006 GTO have effected your dealership's bottom line or your own paycheck very much?

Would an extra 6 months+ wait for the 2006 GTO have effected your dealership's bottom line or your own paycheck very much?

Absolutely. We have people that come in every other day asking if we have any GTO's on the lot. Both 2004's and 2005's. The 2005 has created plenty of enthusiasm, but lets see how the General prices it. If it's a few thousand more, forget about it. If they can keep the price where the '04's sat at, then it will be a desirable vehicle again.

I said from day 1 that the GTO was priced about $4,000 too much. As soon as the $3,500 incentives were put on the hood, they were flying off the lots.

We need the GTO here now, but we need the Solstice more.

I said from day 1 that the GTO was priced about $4,000 too much. As soon as the $3,500 incentives were put on the hood, they were flying off the lots.


With a $28,995 MSRP, the 2004 GTO might have had a successful introduction. Notice I said 2004. With the coming of the 2005 Chrysler 300C and Mustang GT, Pontiac missed the GTO's window of opportunity.

With a $28,995 MSRP, the 2004 GTO might have had a successful introduction. Notice I said 2004. With the coming of the 2005 Chrysler 300C and Mustang GT, Pontiac missed the GTO's window of opportunity.

I think at $32K , an LS2 powered GTO will do very well .That is really one hell of a car for the money "if" the looks suit your taste , which they do mine to a tee . The hood I would do without , but the dual exhaust with the blacked out valance will go a LONG way in breaking up the back end . Ive seen pics and it looks fantastic . Hopefully GM avoids like the plague a $34-36K sticker and make up for it with rebates and GM dealers learned from the 04's with markups .

On the price, I'm getting pessimistic.

The '04 GTO had an all inclusive price of about $32,000 save taxes. Early indications are that the '05 GTO will have a price of around $33,000, but prices that were included before won't be included this time, effectively giving the '05 GTO a substantial price increase.

Josh, your price observation was 100% right IMO. At $28-29,000 without incentives, I suspect GTO would sell more than the 18,000 GM planned to sell. But even at $32K, I was at the verge of getting one. It was the attitude of no fewer than 4 dealers I went to that turned me off to the whole thing till fire-sale time.

The bubble-headed bleach blonde at the auto show said the 05 will be priced "competitively" with the 04.......

2005 price has already been released. $2,000+ increase over 2004 model..... :eek:

There really is no delay in the '05 coming over. The Aussie's seem to start production later the US. But the '05 production will supposedly be cut short in May to allow the '06 to roll off the line. That way, they get here in Sept. instead of late December. Total production hasn't officially been released for the '04 yet but it should be between 13-15K cars from what I've seen.

Only 12K cars being made for '05 because of the short model year run.

The 18K figure is what the UAW said. So you'll never see more than that with the car being built over there.

As for pricing, I could have sworn the numbers I've seen show <$1K increase over the '04 :confused:

Only 12K cars being made for '05 because of the short model year run.

Wouldn't this be essentially the same model year run as the 04?

Wouldn't this be essentially the same model year run as the 04?In total cars, more than likely. But the actual production time is cut short. So they are actually making more cars for '05 up to May. Then changing over to start making '06's.

and the power was just not there.

I don't know how people can say it is underpowered. It has the same as the C5 which was 20k more. The '05 mustang GT has 50 less hp so that must be a total flop. You think thats underpowered, try my LO3 :rolleyes:

I don't think power had anything to do with it. Overall, in the big scheme of things, having more power might help some, but I don't think it will be a big deal (except to those of us that live and breath HP).

I don't think that horsepower was an issue. A $33K car before a solid $5K markup (here in MA anyway) really pissed potential GTO customers off. It essentially made the car $38K before tax!!! :eek: Once the BS greedy dealer markup disappeared, and GM started doing incentives, the GTO became a much more attractive car to most people, myself included. Now your talking <$30K, a major improvement.

What pisses me off is that this car isn't available in Canada!!

My wife and I are looking to buy a RWD 300+hp car and we have nothing up here but the '05 Mustang and the Chrysler 300C which are selling like hotcakes.

2005 price has already been released. $2,000+ increase over 2004 model..... :eek:You are VERY wrong. Prices just released today.

2005 A4 - Msrp $34,295

A4 base msrp = $32,295
+ $700 Destination
+ $1,300 Gas Guzzle Tax
=$34,295

2005 M6- Msrp $33,690

M6 base msrp = $32,295
+ $700 Destination
+ $695 6-speed Transmission
=$33,690

Or about $500 more MSRP than a '04 M6.

I don't know how people can say it is underpowered. It has the same as the C5 which was 20k more. The '05 mustang GT has 50 less hp so that must be a total flop. You think thats underpowered, try my LO3 :rolleyes:

It isn't underpowered...you know it, I know it, and most people here know it. But because its barely as fast as an F body (but better than it in every other way save styling and the lack of t-tops), people will slam it...

The '04 GTO is the best unloved car GM has ever built. The shame is that its unloved.

Are scoops a no-cost option? IMO, it should cost $5k for thoes horrible looking turds on that hood. Anyone who wants to ruin the smooth design of the GTO with some crap like that should have to pay the price.

As for the 04 GTO being "underpowerd".....again, the Mustang runs the same times as the GTO, yet the Mustang's times are "impressive" and "underrated". But lets not start that here.
I would LOVE to get my hands on a GTO! I wish GM put the rebate on the GTO the same time I was in the Chevy showroom. I would be very tempted to cross the lot to the Pontiac lot. :D

You are VERY wrong. Prices just released today.

2005 A4 - Msrp $34,295

A4 base msrp = $32,295
+ $700 Destination
+ $1,300 Gas Guzzle Tax
=$34,295

2005 M6- Msrp $33,690

M6 base msrp = $32,295
+ $700 Destination
+ $695 6-speed Transmission
=$33,690

Or about $500 more MSRP than a '04 M6.

AH. Excellent. Then the "rumors" of only a slight price bump were true. :thumb:

You are VERY wrong. Prices just released today.

2005 A4 - Msrp $34,295

A4 base msrp = $32,295
+ $700 Destination
+ $1,300 Gas Guzzle Tax
=$34,295

2005 M6- Msrp $33,690

M6 base msrp = $32,295
+ $700 Destination
+ $695 6-speed Transmission
=$33,690

Or about $500 more MSRP than a '04 M6.

Hmmm....according to www.pontiac.com, the base price of the 2004 is $32,495. The price you quote for the base 2005 GTO is $200 less.

For the A4, adding $695 destination and $1000 gas guzzler (again, number given by www.pointiac.com) gets you an 04 GTO for $34,190 - meaning the A4 2005 GTO is $105 more than an A4 2004 GTO.

For the M6, adding $695 destination and $695 M6 gets you an 04 GTO for $33,885 - meaning the M6 2005 GTO is $195 more than an M6 2004 GTO.

This assumes your numbers are correct - and Pontiac's website.

Hmmm....according to www.pontiac.com, the base price of the 2004 is $32,495. The price you quote for the base 2005 GTO is $200 less.

For the A4, adding $695 destination and $1000 gas guzzler (again, number given by www.pointiac.com) gets you an 04 GTO for $34,190 - meaning the A4 2005 GTO is $105 more than an A4 2004 GTO.

For the M6, adding $695 destination and $695 M6 gets you an 04 GTO for $33,885 - meaning the M6 2005 GTO is $195 more than an M6 2004 GTO.

This assumes your numbers are correct - and Pontiac's website.Sounds like you are adding destination twice.

Here's my '04 GTO breakdown:
Base price:....31795
M6:.................695
Destination:......700
Total:...........33190

Its similar for the A4 GTO's as they are about $800 more because the extra $300 increase this year in gas guzzler tax.

Sounds like you are adding destination twice.

Here's my '04 GTO breakdown:
Base price:....31795
M6:.................695
Destination:......700
Total:...........33190

Its similar for the A4 GTO's as they are about $800 more because the extra $300 increase this year in gas guzzler tax.
Anything is possible, but I got those prices directly from Pontiac's website.

Where is the new pricing info on the 05s?

Anything is possible, but I got those prices directly from Pontiac's website.

Where is the new pricing info on the 05s?
I got my prices right off the sticker :) June built, bought in September.

Anyway, prices for the '05 are in the AutoBook (the ordering guide used to build and transmit orders to GM) which came out today. This is the book used by dealers.

Are scoops a no-cost option? IMO, it should cost $5k for thoes horrible looking turds on that hood. Anyone who wants to ruin the smooth design of the GTO with some crap like that should have to pay the price.

As for the 04 GTO being "underpowerd".....again, the Mustang runs the same times as the GTO, yet the Mustang's times are "impressive" and "underrated". But lets not start that here.
I would LOVE to get my hands on a GTO! I wish GM put the rebate on the GTO the same time I was in the Chevy showroom. I would be very tempted to cross the lot to the Pontiac lot. :D

I agree on the scoops, they look like crap. If they came out like that Judge concept, on the other hand...

As for the comparison to the Mustang? the thing with the GTO, it's underpowered for the price. And you comparing it to Mustang is a good point.

For a 300hp, $26k car, 13.5 is a really quick time, and underrated.
For a 350hp, $35k car, 13.5 is so so and not really worth all that extra money.

This goes even further to prove my point that the GTO is the right car at the wrong price. Sell the GTO for the price of the Mustang and watch them fly off the lots. Hell, even a Magnum RT MSRPs at 29,995. GTO priced itself out of it's own class.

For a 300hp, $26k car, 13.5 is a really quick time, and underrated.
For a 350hp, $35k car, 13.5 is so so and not really worth all that extra money.

This goes even further to prove my point that the GTO is the right car at the wrong price. Sell the GTO for the price of the Mustang and watch them fly off the lots. Hell, even a Magnum RT MSRPs at 29,995. GTO priced itself out of it's own class.

Jason,

The problem with your assessment is that you assume a matching 1/4 mile time automatically assumes the Mustang is a comparable car to a GTO, and that the only way to measure the worth of these cars is to run them in a straight line.

With all due respect, if you don't see the flaw in that logic...GTO is about so much more than a 1/4 mile time. I don't care how fresh or new the 'Stang is...it is NOT as good of a car as a GTO.

Period.

I agree on the scoops, they look like crap. If they came out like that Judge concept, on the other hand...

As for the comparison to the Mustang? the thing with the GTO, it's underpowered for the price. And you comparing it to Mustang is a good point.

For a 300hp, $26k car, 13.5 is a really quick time, and underrated.
For a 350hp, $35k car, 13.5 is so so and not really worth all that extra money.

This goes even further to prove my point that the GTO is the right car at the wrong price. Sell the GTO for the price of the Mustang and watch them fly off the lots. Hell, even a Magnum RT MSRPs at 29,995. GTO priced itself out of it's own class.

GTO is much more car than Mustang GT, the only Mustang that can compare when it comes to handling is 2003 Cobra with IRS. Cobra is much closer to GTO in price, but it does have a power advantage of about 70 HP over 2004 GTO. The new GTO will bring that gap much closer together, and it will be interesting to read comparisons (should they ever come out) between those two cars in 1/4 mi and road courses.

I gave a comparison to the mustang to show you don't need 500HP just to sell a car. There are other reasons why people buy cars other than the 1/4, otherwise the F-bodys would be here and the stang would be on hiatus. The GTO has a great interior, nice stereo, IRS (which is better than solid for most everything other than the 1/4), and is a confortable car to ride in(lumbar support, no cat hump, not on the ground). If you are looking for a pure race car you are right the GTO is not for you. If you want a fast car with a great interior and a great ride, then its for you.

There is an option for the hood scoop delete. Too bad there is no spoiler delete though.

RPO BZJ Hood scoop delete
Don't know what kind of credit you get back.

I stand corrected. Imagine, info on the internet that was inaccurate??!! In my defense, my information came directly from the GM media website. Looks like either someone posted something prematurely, or Pontiac thought better of a $2,000 price increase on a car that was not exactly flying off dealers' lots.

The sticker off my A4 reads $33,495 total MSRP.

BTW, I agree with the need for a "wing" delete. The wing on my GTO was removed within an hour. Amazing how different the car looks without it.

I understand the point about the GTO and the Mustang not being the same car, and I realize there's a reason that the GTO is a bit pricier. But honestly, it's a car that's priced too high for what it's trying to do. I think Pontiac wants to try and be some kind of BMW fighter, but a Pontiac is not going to compete with a BMW in the minds of the public any time soon. They can't just come out and charge BMW-like prices. The sales speak for themselves.....when GTOs dipped into the 20s, they were selling like mad. In the mid 30s, they were like **** on a sidewalk. GM doesn't seem to realize that their product is looked on as generally inferior to the competition, and they need a good price to get people in the door. GM is going to need to pay their dues for a while if they want to earn back the public's trust, they can't just jump in to trying to be a premium automaker.

I understand the point about the GTO and the Mustang not being the same car, and I realize there's a reason that the GTO is a bit pricier. But honestly, it's a car that's priced too high for what it's trying to do. I think Pontiac wants to try and be some kind of BMW fighter, but a Pontiac is not going to compete with a BMW in the minds of the public any time soon. They can't just come out and charge BMW-like prices. The sales speak for themselves.....when GTOs dipped into the 20s, they were selling like mad. In the mid 30s, they were like **** on a sidewalk. GM doesn't seem to realize that their product is looked on as generally inferior to the competition, and they need a good price to get people in the door. GM is going to need to pay their dues for a while if they want to earn back the public's trust, they can't just jump in to trying to be a premium automaker.


I can't disagree with you about pontiac not being an effective BMW fighter the way things are. There is no way the general public will put the two on the same field in the near future if ever. I rented a new grand prix and I was very unimpressed, it felt quite inexpensive. The goat is definitely far better in quality to it. I don't believe its neccesarily too expensive. Its as expensive as an '02 SS was, but a lot better in most every way. Though a 300 series BMW really isn't all that. It has far less power, and as far as the interior I am not familiar enough with theirs to give an opinion.